Late 2016 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + VEGA64@32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + MacOS10.13&Win10 [Leoben]^  

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Leoben
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August 22, 2017 8:33 pm  

EDIT 08-25-2017: I finally managed to resolve a lot of problems i had with this video card under Windows (lags, freezes, mouse disconnecting...) so i decided to re-write entirely this guide. The AMD Vega 64 is really amazing, and i recommend all of you to upgrade if you have a MacBook Pro with RX580.


Hello guys,

So i finally upgraded my config and changed my RX580 by a VEGA 64 (black edition with stock fan, from Sapphire).

First of all, i want to say this card is really heavy. And really loud, you can't hear it when idle but in charge, you know EXACTLY what coil whine means and your eGPU enclosure becomes a very efficient hair-dryer.

The installation under MacOS Sierra Beta is just plug and play, it works like a charm, and it is recognized as "AMD RX xxx 8Go". Luxmark says "Amd Radeon Vega 10 Prototype".

That said, i tried numerous games under High Sierra Beta 6, here are the results:

- Worls of Warcraft Legion: 1080p, preset 10 with FXAA High: 40-60fps

- Unigine Heaven: Won't load

- Unigine Valley: Glitches, distorsion... unusable

- Firewatch: Crash

- Borderlands 2: Crash

I hope that's only a problem from drivers and it should be resolved whith Final High Sierra. I hope Vega will be helpfull in Final Cut Pro using Metal 2...

So, guess what? i decided not to use MasOS for gaming, let's go to Windows.

Installing with Windows 10:

STEP 1: Install Windows ANNIVERSARY EDITION using BootCamp Assistant.

STEP 2: Boot into Windows, update all Apple Drivers and upgrade Windows to Creator's Update

STEP 3: Go to Device Manager > Device by Connection > Disable  PCI #9D18:

by connections

STEP 4: Connect your Mantiz Venus with AMD Vega 64 inside to the bottom-left Thunderbolt 3 port (The nearest to the TAB key). I had A LOT of issues when plugging it in the top-left port. Wait for windows to install drivers for components of the Venus (USB, SATA, Ethernet...)

STEP 5: Install latest AMD Drivers from their website

STEP 6: Reboot into MacOS and select BootCamp Disk as startup disk in system preferences

STEP 7: Reboot into windows using a USB Key plugged in one of the USB port of the Venus that you made from this guide with bootx64.efi:  https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/how-to-keep-mbps-irisiris-pro-activated-when-booting-into-windows-boot-camp/#post-1458

STEP 8: Enjoy Insanely good gaming performances 🙂 benchmarks on external display:

TimeSpy

Valley EX
superp EX
Heaven EX
FIRESTRIKE EX

Edit 2017-09-03: Trying 4K gaming.

Thi Vega 64 was not bought for gaming as main goal, but i wanted to see what could be possible if playing in 4K. And i'm not disappointed at all.

IMG 4365
IMG 4364

I connected the eGPU set with an HDMI 1.4 cable to my 4K-UHD LG TV 48 inches.

Using windows, i monitored FPS in those games:

Redout, 4K - EPIC settings

Redout 4K EPIC copie

DOOM, 4K - Vulkan - Ultra settings

Doom 4K Vulkan Ultra 60 fps copie

The Witcher 3 - 4K - Ultra without NVIDIA Hairwork

The witcher 3 4K Extreme copie

Although the results in FPS could not seem very high, i have to say that the gaming experience on that screen is very smooth, even with 30fps and i love playing on it.

By the way, i noticed when playing in 1080p Forcing VSYNC and limiting frames by 60 fps provides a very good gaming experience, as smooth as possible, with no lag or glitches and makes the card quieter as it is used at only 50%. It reduces also the power consumption. It must be the good setting if you play on a 60Hz screen.

This card is exactly what i needed, and with a good price (i payed 507€ with 2 games) it really worth it. Again, gaming is not my main target.

I'll post benchs of computing power in FCPX as soon as it is possible (for the moment, FCPX does not support eGPUS).

EDIT 2017-10-21: updated yesterday Windows 10 to Fall Creator Update.

Going back to device manager shows me PCI Express Root #9-9D18 is now activated, and no error 12 on the vega, everything is working fine. Meaning if you follow this guide, upgrade to Fall Creator Update before plugging your mantiz venus on the mac, STEP 3 is no more needed.

fallupdate

 

Edited: 6 months  ago

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theitsage
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August 22, 2017 8:47 pm  

Thank you for the report and implementation. Can you take a screen capture of Device Manager » View by Connection?

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Leoben
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August 23, 2017 7:19 pm  

New captures this week end, coming soon!

 

Edited: 9 months  ago

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Leoben
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August 25, 2017 10:14 am  

Updated Guide! works flawlessly in Windows 10.


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ikir
 ikir
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August 28, 2017 10:00 am  

Didi you have issue with power spikes with games and software under Windows or macOS? Let's hope next beta have better Vega drivers

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Leoben
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August 28, 2017 10:33 am  

@ikir: no i had no such issues. But i did not use sierra as it can't load any game. I played hours in Windows on Mass Effect Andromeda and it works great. Do you have a vega too?

 


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theitsage
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August 28, 2017 2:53 pm  

@Leoben Can you run some benchmarks through the internal display? I have an RX Vega 56 en route and would like to have some baseline for AMD eGPU performance.

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rolfl
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August 28, 2017 4:10 pm  

@ikir I had power issues with Vega 64 in Akitio Node where it appeared to shutdown PSU sporadicly during games in Win10. Swapped in a Corsair SF600 and problems went away.

Mac Mini 2014 + Apple TB2/TB3 adapter + AKiTiO Node (Corsair SF600 PSU) + Gigabyte Vega RX 64 + Win10 1709 (Boots with eGPU attached) + OSX 10.13.5 Beta


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Leoben
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September 1, 2017 12:10 pm  

@Theitsage:

Here are a few bench from integrated LCD under Windows.

Benchs from 3D Mark simply won't load using internal display only.

IMG 4361
IMG 4362

So yes, if you only look at Valley, the performance drop between internal and external is really close to zero.

Edited: 9 months  ago

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theitsage
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September 1, 2017 1:00 pm  

Thank you @Leoben! AMD XConnect team has been working hard to optimize eGPU internal display performance. The RX 580 eGPU I tested yielded very marginal difference between internal vs. external display.

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wimpzilla
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September 1, 2017 1:11 pm  

STEP 8: Enjoy Insanely good gaming performances 🙂 benchmarks on external display:

I don't think you can call these result "insanely good performances".

I would rather weigh them "just enough" to not consider the card useless, at the moment, with these drivers, power consumption.

Vega on eGPU is no go for the moment, that you enjoy it is a thing and i agree with you. I would also enjoy having one.

But it is not suited for an eGPU setup now, a GTX1070 is a way better deal!

Vega is an enthusiast gpu card at the moment, worth only if put it under watercooling, it is not a good deal for a basic consumer standpoint that seek only to game with an eGPU setup.

Edited: 9 months  ago

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 270X@4Gbps-mPCIe (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
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mac_editor
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September 1, 2017 1:15 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

Thank you @Leoben! AMD XConnect team has been working hard to optimize eGPU internal display performance. The RX 580 eGPU I tested yielded very marginal difference between internal vs. external display.

I think this will only be true for ~60fps gaming (on RX 480). Playing at substantially higher frame rates (200 and above) should be difficult on the internal display vs. external one (for example Rocket League / CS GO) due do bandwidth limitations. Obviously with a Vega the numbers will be higher, but the performance cut should be equivalent. Would be awesome if you could test this class of games as well. 

purge-wrangler.shpurge-nvda.sh

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mac_editor
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September 1, 2017 1:20 pm  
Posted by: wimpzilla

STEP 8: Enjoy Insanely good gaming performances 🙂 benchmarks on external display:

I don't think you can call these result "insanely good performances".

I would rather weigh them "just enough" to not consider the card useless, at the moment, with these drivers, power consumption.

Vega on eGPU is no go for the moment, that you enjoy it is a thing and i agree with you. I would also enjoy having one.

But it is not suited for an eGPU setup now, a GTX1070 is a way better deal!

Vega is an enthusiast gpu card at the moment, worth only if put it under watercooling, it is not a good deal for a basic consumer standpoint that seek only to game with an eGPU setup.

The tide is with AMD thanks to native macOS support. As far as I can tell, the numbers look close to a 980 Ti’s benchmarks - nothing special for all the hype. 

Edited: 9 months  ago

purge-wrangler.shpurge-nvda.sh

Guides:
Mid-2014 15" MacBook Pro GT750M + RX480@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO Node via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS & Win10
Mid-2014 15" MacBook Pro GT750M + GTX980Ti@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO Node via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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Leoben
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September 1, 2017 1:21 pm  

@wimpzilla: you're entirely true. That's why i really hope Vega to improve performance in FinalCut Pro witch i use every day 😉 The only reason why i choosed Vega over Nvidia is the announced support of Metal 2 in MacOS.


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wimpzilla
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September 1, 2017 3:59 pm  

Posted by: mac_editor

The tide is with AMD thanks to native macOS support. As far as I can tell, the numbers look close to a 980 Ti’s benchmarks - nothing special for all the hype. 

Actually the valley performances are far lower than a 980Ti in this setup, unfortunately. A 980Ti score is higher if i remember well.

 

Posted by: Leoben

@wimpzilla: you're entirely true. That's why i really hope Vega to improve performance in FinalCut Pro witch i use every day 😉 The only reason why i choosed Vega over Nvidia is the announced support of Metal 2 in MacOS.

And i fully agree with you for compute workloads. That's why we should take care to split both case to give the best advice for users, with different needs.

An interesting thing to assay would be the power consumption during computing workload. Did you notice a difference of power usage between gaming and computing?

Or the gpu at the end is power hungry no matter what?

Edited: 9 months  ago

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 270X@4Gbps-mPCIe (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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Leoben
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September 3, 2017 1:41 pm  

Post Edited with 3 more gaming fps.


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theitsage
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September 8, 2017 7:29 pm  

@Leoben, can you examine what component is connected to PCI Express Root Port #9 - 9D18? I'm gathering more information on the Touch Bar MBP to complete my Bootcamp setup guide for all Thunderbolt 3 MBPs. Thank you!

2016 13 in macbook pro device by connections

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Leoben
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September 8, 2017 8:08 pm  

@theitsage, I really don't what is connected on this port.

When i reactivate it, eGPU unplugged, i hear the "connection sound" from windows but nothing appears to be connected on it.

When i connect a USB Key on one of the 2 TB3 port on the right, this happens:

theitsage1

 

But, when i deactivate it and plug the USB Key on the same port, it appears ton be connected as this:

theitsage2

I really don't know what this port is used for.


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theitsage
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September 8, 2017 8:48 pm  

Thank you for looking into this @Leoben. From your tests, my guess of the PCIe routing on the late-2016 Touch Bar MBP is this:

  • PCI Express Root Port #1 - 9D10 connects to the SSD
  • PCI Express Root Port #5 - 9D14 connects to the left-side USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports
  • PCI Express Root Port #9 - 9D18 connects to the right-side USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports
  • PCI Express Root Port #12 - 9D1B connects to WiFi

 

If you have time, please run HWiNFO64 to cross-check.

Edited: 9 months  ago

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Leoben
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September 8, 2017 8:58 pm  

Yes, 9D1B is connecting Wifi Broadcom. Is this screen what you want?

Capture

 

Edited: 9 months  ago

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ikir
 ikir
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September 9, 2017 7:42 am  

@wimpzilla

Valley is OpenGL, AMD macOS drivers shines on Metal. Vega 56 is better than GTX 1070, and more adeguate to eGPU. Even with early beta drivers, PSU limit, Vega 64 is beating even 1080ti with OpenCL.  http://barefeats.com/early_vega.html

I just hope to see macOS beta drivers fixed soon, stable enough to use it daily.

 

@Leoben rolfl

I should receive Radeon RX Vega 56 in the next few days 🙂

 

@ Leoben

I think it is better to put the MacBook elsewhere not on top of Mantiz Venus. They both dissipate with body, especially Mantiz Venus can be hot on top and MacBook Pro on the bottom. But congratulation to your stellar setup. I have a nice desk to thanks to MacBook Pro, Mantiz Venus, LG Ultrawide 29". I will post updated photos too

 

 

Edited: 9 months  ago

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Leoben
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September 9, 2017 8:19 pm  

@Ikir: Thank you for your advice, i won't put my mac again on the top of my mantiz venus. Next step for me is to find a way to watercool the Vega 64 with something like this:

http://www.aquatuning.fr/refroidissement-par-eau/sets-und-systems/kit-interne/alphacool/eiswolf/22291/alphacool-eiswolf-120-gpx-pro-ati-rx-vega-m01-black

to obtain beter temperatures and lower noise ingame.

I really like your desk and mine is the same way with the macbook pro just in front of my 27 inches screen. I really hope to see your photos and tests soon, with your Vega 56! I really believe in those videocards for getting beter performances in macOS.


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ikir
 ikir
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September 10, 2017 5:18 pm  

@Leoben

thanks mate, keep us updated each other!

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ikir
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September 11, 2017 5:55 pm  

I can confirm Vega 56 work s on with Valley and Heaven if AA is disabled

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Leoben
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September 15, 2017 8:37 pm  

Yes, you're right! i tried with vega 64 and it works too, disabling AA


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Leoben
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September 16, 2017 6:16 pm  

Huge improvement for my Vega 64 setup: Thanks to @theitsage, i decided to Undervolt it.

Bench with Balanced mode in Wattman:

Stock

I tried to undervolt it using advices from this post and finaly managed to indervolt at 901mV. (not 900, it does not work for me)

New bench:

901

My setup:

Undervolt Stable

With these settings:

  • 30% less power, meaning:
  • Both fans from Video card AND PSU are A LOT quieter, the noise is now acceptable on my desk.
  • No more thermal throttling, increasing performances at about 8%
  • Vega's fan is now NOT SPINNING AT ALL when idle 😉 amazing!
  • Max temperature after 1 hour of valley: 75°C.

Now Vega becomes a more efficient GPU and can fit in most eGPU cases.

My advice: before changing your eGPU PSU, try to undervolt Vega.


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Leoben
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September 17, 2017 1:56 pm  

@Goalque: i reruned Firestrike 1.1 with updated Mantiz firmware, undervolted Vega64, and a 0,5m belkin cable:

FS

Same results as yours with Netstor 😉


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theitsage
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September 17, 2017 2:22 pm  

Very good to see nice improvement with undervolting. Keep in mind each GPU reacts to clock adjustments differently. I would recommend to play around with your settings in Wattman to find an optimal point of performance and power consumption.

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goalque
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September 17, 2017 4:47 pm  
Posted by: Leoben

@Goalque: i reruned Firestrike 1.1 with updated Mantiz firmware, undervolted Vega64, and a 0,5m belkin cable:

Same results as yours with Netstor 😉

Let's the battle begin! 😉 It's also good to keep in mind that this is not apples to apples comparison. You've 28W TDP CPU (2.90 GHz), and my non-touch bar 13" MBP's i5-6360U (2.00 GHz) is only 15W.

automate-eGPU.shapple_set_os.efi
--
late-2016 13" Macbook Pro nTB + Vega64@32Gbps-TB3 (Netstor HL23T) + macOS & Win10
late-2016 13" Macbook Pro nTB + GTX980/RX580@32Gbps-TB3 (Netstor HL23T) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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Dude
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September 23, 2017 9:55 am  

I have been following the forums for a long time now. It seems that undervolting is the way to go currently but this is only possible using the windows drivers, right?

I have a late 2016 MBP 15" with TB3 and a spanking new Mantiz Venus still sitting in the box in my closet. My idea was to get a Vega 56 but now it seems a Vega 64 might be workable.

But would this mean that a Vega 64 would only run on the Mac at stock voltage with power issues, fan noise and heat, while under boot camp you could undervolt and get better everything basically?

I'm not sure what to get now. 56 or 64? I do 90% of my computing in MacOS. 10% for gaming in windows. I run Adobe creative suite, Cinema 4D and Logic Pro X.


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ikir
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September 23, 2017 2:29 pm  
Posted by: Dude

I have been following the forums for a long time now. It seems that undervolting is the way to go currently but this is only possible using the windows drivers, right?

I have a late 2016 MBP 15" with TB3 and a spanking new Mantiz Venus still sitting in the box in my closet. My idea was to get a Vega 56 but now it seems a Vega 64 might be workable.

But would this mean that a Vega 64 would only run on the Mac at stock voltage with power issues, fan noise and heat, while under boot camp you could undervolt and get better everything basically?

I'm not sure what to get now. 56 or 64? I do 90% of my computing in MacOS. 10% for gaming in windows. I run Adobe creative suite, Cinema 4D and Logic Pro X.

I think Vega 56 is enough for everything and you can find it more easily. The problem are current Vega drivers are unusable OpenGL, only Metal and OpenCL software runs good. Probably Vega macOS drivers will be finalized in December with iMac Pro (I hope sooner).

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Sebix5
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October 6, 2017 7:52 am  

@Leoben

Didn't you have experienced some freezes with the Vega 64 under MacOS and Windows? Have you upgraded the Mantiz Venus fan?


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Eightarmedpet
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October 6, 2017 8:47 am  

Good to see someone managed to get an AMD card working easily in Windows... subbing to bookmark so I can read the whole thread.

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October 20, 2017 7:46 pm  

How did you get the internal display to work with this setup? Need your help!


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Leoben
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October 21, 2017 10:19 am  
Posted by: abubear

How did you get the internal display to work with this setup? Need your help!

If you followed my guide, i don't see why it would not work... try unplugging the external monitor diplay port or HDMI cable from the vega.

btw, som games won't play correctly with internal display, i don't know why.


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