2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M.2 (AD...
 
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2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M.2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 // compares M.2 vs TB3 performance inc unoptimized H-CPU BIOS  

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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

One method to reduce performance loss of TB3 eGPU vs M.2 is to make the eGPU do more work. Use a higher resolution to slow down the frame rate which will require less data to be sent over TB3. There is a sweet spot of resolution vs framerate that differs between TB3 and M.2 because of this latency difference. This will not be as useful for games that send more data when higher resolutions are used.

The USB4 spec describes a latency/bandwidth tradeoff for PCIe (chapter 11, page 422) and USB3 (chapter 9, page 330) traffic which may be applicable to TB3 as well (which supports PCIe traffic). The amount of buffers will be configurable for USB4.

I wonder if the firmwares that had low H2D bandwidth for Thunderbolt 3 eGPUs were using fewer buffers for better latency? Do we have framerate comparison between two firmwares for the same eGPU? The thread at https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/alert-akitio-node-half-h2d-bandwidth-issue/paged/2/ describes the H2D issue, but TLDR I don't know if anyone compared fps change (only bandwidth change).

 

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Radeon Pro W5700, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
 
Posted by: @donwey

Thank you, i have already ordered ADT-Link R43SG.

I will create a new build with my Dell XPS 9560 and Aorus Gaming Box GTX 1080 and make some gaming benchmarks. Later when i get ADT-Link R43SG i can make comparison of the performance between those two. Although i dont think the performance increase will be that much high. From your benchmarks it seems only some benchmark tools and Forza Horizon 4 are affected but Far Cry 5 is not? I wonder what other games are affected like FH4. 

Have corrected your submitted build. The XPS 9560 has a 16Gbps-TB3 (2-lane) controller.  Using your 32Gbps M.2 slot with an ADT-Link R43SG will show a show an even greater performance improvement on bandwidth-bound games like Forza 4 than 32Gbps-TB3 ports like found in an XPS 9570 / 7590.

 

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

 
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M.2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 // compares M.2 vs TB3 performance inc unoptimized H-CPU BIOS [build link]  


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ILoveLamps
(@ilovelamps)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

Hi nando4. I have the R43SG with a reference RX5700xt on the spare M.2 port of my HP Zbook studio G3. However, after unplugging the M.2 cable to take my laptop elsewhere, I plugged it back in today but the card isn't being detected. I had this same problem last week but unplugging the battery and plugging it back in worked. In another instance, I just held down the power button to shut the laptop down and when I booted it back up, the card was working. In my current situation, I have tried the methods I just listed but my card is not being detected at all. 

I was wondering if you've experience something similar or had any thoughts on it.

2015 15" HP ZBook Studio 15 G3 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + RX 5700 XT @32Gbps-M.2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1909 // GPU not detected after unplugging and replugging [build link]  

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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
 

@ilovelamps , where is your build details to comment against? Consider following the build template to create one.

 

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

 
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M.2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 // compares M.2 vs TB3 performance inc unoptimized H-CPU BIOS [build link]  


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phila-delphia
(@phila-delphia)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@nando4, Thank you very much for your research! I guess I am subject to the same perfomance degradation with my i7-9750h coming from a i7-7700h.

I documented the issue here: https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/less-egpu-performance-with-better-notebook/

You will find my system specs here: https://egpu.io/forums/builds/2019-15-lenovo-yoga-c940-gtx1650-q-max-i7-9750h-6c-12t-rtx-2070-super-32gbps-tb3-razer-core-x-chroma-win-10-pro/

Have you allready contacted Intel in regard to the suspected BIOs issue?!

Best regards!

phil

 

2019 15" Lenovo Yoga C940 (GTX1650) [9th,6C,H] + RTX 2070 Super @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X Chroma) + Win10 [build link]  

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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
 
Posted by: @phila-delphia

Have you allready contacted Intel in regard to the suspected BIOs issue?!

 

The OEM configures Intel's chipset in the BIOS. In your case something you'd contact Lenovo about seeking a solution.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

 
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M.2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 // compares M.2 vs TB3 performance inc unoptimized H-CPU BIOS [build link]  


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phila-delphia
(@phila-delphia)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@nando4, Thank you! I allready did yesterday: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/VERY-BAD-eGPU-performance-on-Lenovo-Yoga-c940-due-to-9th-gen-inten-CPU/m-p/5001386

I`ll report back.

Thank you for your effort!

All the best

phil

 

2019 15" Lenovo Yoga C940 (GTX1650) [9th,6C,H] + RTX 2070 Super @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X Chroma) + Win10 [build link]  

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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
 

Have asked ADT-Link to consider creating a same-level edge-protector for the SSD/M.2 slot to make non-destructive hotswapping of the eGPU and SSD on a single M.2 slot system possible. Then we'd just need to mod an access hole and protective cover for when on the move.

From: xxx@adt.link
To:Nando
Date: Tue, 10 Mar at 11:54 am

Dear Nando:

Thank you for your feedback. Our engineer may design a new product upon your feedback.

Best Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nando
Date: 2020-3-6
To: xxx@adt.link
Re: R43SG from ADT
 
Hi xxx,
 
Thank you. I've expanded on why M.2 eGPUs are superior to Thunderbolt 3 at:
 
 
M.2 eGPU ideas work great when the system has dual internal storage ports.
 
Problem is for systems that only have a single M.2 slot where we'd to swap out the SSD for the eGPU when docked at home and swap back in the SSD when mobile. There we need to protect the slot and SSD edge connectors.
 
For that there is one critical piece of hardware is missing to make that feasible. That being
 
A M.2 slot extender that is at the same height as the original slot. Something that would look like this, though with NVME SSD pinout:
 
 
All current NVME extender boards raise the height of the extended socket making it not possible to swap in the SSD when attach to the board as it protrudes out of the system from this additional height:
 
 
Pls consider.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

 
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M.2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 // compares M.2 vs TB3 performance inc unoptimized H-CPU BIOS [build link]  


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itsage
(@itsage)
Founder Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
 

@nando4, Protecting the M.2 slot and contact pins is a great idea. This would make the ADT-Link R43SG more dockable. At the moment it's not very convenient to switch from stationary to mobile use.

 

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2021 14" Microsoft Surface Laptop Studio [11th,4C,H] + RTX 2080 Ti @ 32Gbps-TB4 (WD_Black D50) + Win11 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

I can't see how they can make the connector at the same level because the post at 80mm on the laptop motherboard would interfere. You could only connect adapters 60mm or less. The R4xx adaptors can be reduced manually to 60mm, but 80mm SSDs cannot be reduced. So if you don't care about connecting SSDs to the protector adapter, and don't mind reducing your 80mm adapters to 60mm, then ADT could make the protector adapter 20mm long. Adhesive might be required to keep the adapter in place as you connect M.2 devices to it.

ADT might have to create their own M.2 connector though. I don't think they've done that before. Actually, I did find there exists mid plane offset mounts which might be perfect for the job:
https://www.digikey.com/en/videos/t/te-connectivity-amp/m2-next-generation-form-factor-ngff-connectors
but I haven't found a product yet.

Mid plane connectors (also called Mid Line) are described in the "PCI Express M.2 Specification" section 2.4. It looks like it should add only 0.68mm (max) in height which might be sufficiently low enough for this purpose. Some mid line connectors might be better (add less to the height).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Radeon Pro W5700, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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