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2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX Vega 56 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS...
 

2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX Vega 56 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.14.3 & Win10 [Eightarmedpet]  

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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Going to refrain from too much waffle (maybe).

I was getting frustrated with the amount of noise from my Razer Core V1, even when idle the fans are audible to the extent that I wasn't happy leaving it plugged in when not in use. I also may have mentioned I have had issues with my Ultrafine - primarily I am unable to drive it with any GPU (still waiting for any with TB3).

With those two considerations in mind I decided it was time for a new enclosure and my dream of a high end mini enclosure is never happening so time to accept it and go the other way - an enclosure that is a full on docking solution with the ability to upgrade/mod it.

OH hai Mantiz Venus.

 

System specs (model inc screen size, CPU, iGPU, dGPU, operating system)

13 Inch MacBook Pro, i5, 500GB SSD, 16GB ram - to be upgraded this year?

 

eGPU hardware 
LG 5K Ultrafine nightmare
Mantiz Venus in Space grey
2M Cable matters TB3 cable
Sapphire Vega 56 ref model (a bit hot and loud). RX 5700 XT on route (found on Amazon for £330 somehow).

Mods coming soon - trying to hunt out a PCIe riser that actually works.

 

Hardware pictures

Maybe.

Installation steps
It appears that unlike my Core V1 boot up is much more predictable (famous last words) requiring nothing more than rEFInd where previously I sometimes had to use the EFI Bootmanager as well or instead of. I can only assume its somehow related to the Ti83 vs Ti82 chip (the Core having the later).

I created another custom rEFInd theme based on an old Clover theme I designed for Corpnewt (if anyone dabbles in hacks they will prob know the guy) dropbox download here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e1w4id31yy7glim/refind.zip?dl=0

 

In terminal:

  • sudo mkdir /Volumes/ESP
    (you'll be asked for your password)
  • sudo mount -t msdos /dev/disk0s1 /Volumes/ESP
  • sudo bless --mount /Volumes/ESP --setBoot --file /Volumes/ESP/efi/refind/refind_x64.efi --shortform

Reboot, and you should be good.
I've disabled the webcams in W10 too but not sure if that's needed.


Benchmarks 
PUBG gets a good solid 60fps @1440.

 

Comments
The Mantiz Venus is better than I expected... 

The USB ports all appear to work (unlike the Core which was temperamental)
It's quite than expected as it appears Mantiz tweaked the design to include a 100 or 120mm fan rather than the original 80mm (best I double check the size - checked, its 120mm).
The build quality is higher than expected but maybe my expectations were low, I actually think it's on par with the Core but maybe not as nicely made as my Node Lite.

Due to the above I am able to keep the Mantiz plugged in at all times managing boot with rEFInd and having my headphones plugged into the Venus which helps hides cables when not in use. I have a Notctura fan which I had planned on popping in instead of the stock but the fans on my MacBook Pro are actually louder so I may not even bother, I had also planned on getting a semi passive PSU but again the stock one is quite than expected. I'll see how the 5700XT works out and reassess then. Still planning on getting the TB3 addd in card installed in the enclosure to directly drive my Ultrafine.

Couple of benchmark tests, looks to under performing? But H2D is oldish?

gpgpu
Screenshot 2019 08 30 at 10.25.58

This topic was modified 3 months ago

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


itsage and nando4 liked
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stoffer88
(@stoffer88)
Active Member
Joined: 7 months ago
 

Hey man. 

Thanks for the build-guide. Really looking forward to hearing how the 5700 XT works out in the Venus. They recommended this setup themselves in a support case I had with them after Vega 64 nitro+ got consistently undervolted in my setup (and I lost my patience) 

 

Would love to know when you're planning of testing the 5700 XT

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@stoffer88 hey buddy, no worries!
What was happening with your Vega? 

I actually sent the 5700xt back, for two reasons..
1. No macOS support as of yet
2. Loop back performance loss is far greater than Polaris and Vega (info courtesy of @itsage).
The second is an issue that only effects folks like me who are unable to connect their monitor directly to their GPU.

In retrospect, despite the daft bargain I found I think sending back was the right choice, my current blower card gets so damn loud (although so does my MacBook) so dont really want another. The leaked MSI dual fan cooler cards that have leaked look really nice and maybe by the time they hit macOS drivers may be ready and as W10 drivers mature problem 2 should be fixed too.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Updated with a couple of benchmarks, worried my set up is under performing...
These were done on my 4K tv connected directly to my GPU, W10 resolution @1400 for gaming but Valley @1080 fullscreen.
No FPS noticeable increase in PUBG vs loopback interestingly.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

So my Windows instal just got corrupted again and it couldn't find the restore points or whatever its called.
Nuke and restart.
1903 and all the updates and ogpu wasn't detected, but no crashes as per earlier.
Boot with EFI boot loader and it appeared.
Driver instal crashed at 40%.
Unable to boot windows again.
Nuke and restart.
Trying 1809.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Same thing happened with 1809, bootcamp drivers crashed the system and corrupted the windows instal to the extent it doesn’t even boot. 

Hopefully my old 1604 build that I usually set up with works. 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Sorry to spam, back up and running thanks to my antique 1607 ISO, I am so glad I kept that ISO!

Also installed the AMD auto detect software which picked up my Vega 56 no issues and didn't crash on driver instal.

Tested on my TV briefly (didn't want to risk another corruption) and all I needed was to boot using the EFI Bootloader, no tweaks, no disabling, all good.

Also to note - later versions of windows didn't detect the egpu when I hot plugged, had to boot with it already plugged in using the EFI Bootloader.

I hate Windows.

File link here if it helps anyone.

This post was modified 3 months ago

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


itsage liked
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itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@eightarmedpet Windows Boot Camp with eGPU can be a silly mess. I have good luck with Win10 1809 on my 2017 13″ MacBook Pro but was never been able to resolve the boot loop when I have Radeon drivers installed in Win10 1903.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@itsage Argh, tell me about it! Getting error 12 with the efi bootloader now... going to update to 1809 and see if that changes things.

Edit: update failed but it appears to be working now with rEFInd after I disabled the iSight camera. I love my old windows build. 

This post was modified 3 months ago

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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User99999
(@user99999)
Trusted Member
Joined: 12 months ago
 

@eightarmedpet

So 1903 update does not work for all eGPU setup at the moment? 

Pending: Macbook Pro Retina Mid 2015 m370x eGPU Radeon Rx 5700 W10


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@user99999

I’m not sure... i was able to instal but when I Tried to install bootcamp drivers things went south quickly, same with 1809, so it may be my model of MacBook and the specific build of bootcamp drivers. 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Microsoft has refused to join the Thunderbolt bandwagon because Intel and Apple make all the rules. You would see the #1 compliant of loyal Surface users is the lack of Thunderbolt connectivity. Until there’s a Microsoft laptop with Thunderbolt 3, they won’t bother testing compatibility prior to releasing these updates.

This post was modified 3 months ago

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I think my two brain cells just bumped into each other and have sparked an idea, which may lead to me finally being able to drive my 5K AND have a single cable solution, the best part, I have all the parts already...

I've somehow always over looked Daisy chaining... while Daisy chaining egpu's through a single port the bandwidth is split between the two enclosures (source) but if the first item in the chain uses virtually no bandwidth the egpu at he end shouldn't have any issues.

What I'm thinking is... MacBook Pro > Akitio Node lite with TB3 add in card > Mantiz venus 
Plug the 5K into the TB3 card in the Node Lite, and use DP to TB3 cables to route GPU power into the Node lite.

It may be a month before I can dig everything out (house renovations) but wanted to get it down before I forgot. If anyone fancies sense checking that would be appreciated but I'll give it a go myself asap....

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


itsage liked
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joevt
(@joevt)
Prominent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@eightarmedpet

Seems like that should work. @itsage already proved that an eGPU doesn't need to be first in the chain (is that true in Windows too?) when he connected 4 eGPUs to a Mac. However, I don't see how this is an improvement to the case where the TB3 AIC is not in the chain (if the TB3 AIC is working otherwise). I think your method eliminates a power switch that the AIC would require if it were not in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure? And maybe one day your method will allow PCIe tunneling through the AIC that is inside a Thunderbolt enclosure (would require somebody to make a driver - maybe a USB4 solution will exist before then).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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mac_editor
(@mac_editor)
Famed Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@eightarmedpet

That would work but would this not increase latency (CPU-GPU)? Or maybe this is negligible. I am interested in seeing performance differences between a direct-connected eGPU vs. daisy-chained eGPU. There is probably some reasoning regarding the recommendation of plugging in GPUs directly. 

@joevt would appreciate your thoughts on this as well. I also wanted to understand “latency” in terms of “gaming” FPS. Does higher latency = lower FPS, or lower frame time, or both, or something else?

This post was modified 2 months ago

purge-wranglerpurge-nvdaset-eGPU
2018 MacBook Pro 15" RP560X + RX 5700 XT (Mantiz Venus)


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joevt
(@joevt)
Prominent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@mac_editor

I haven't made any measurements myself. I have seen benchmarks from others showing SSD performance drop in Thunderbolt chains but I don't know how that translates to GPUs. I expect there to be a difference but I don't know how much. Is latency similar to a change in PCIe link width or speed? Maybe in some ways but I don't think it should be as bad as halving the bandwidth (like reducing PCIe link width or speed would).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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mac_editor
(@mac_editor)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

@joevt I found this test to be enlightening regarding bandwidth: https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/a-call-for-measurements-isolating-the-thunderbolt-effect/paged/5/#post-14987

It would seem that bandwidth is far from being the primary constraint on thunderbolt. I am hoping to understand the real constraint.

Perhaps it is this multiplexing and de-multiplexing that induces latency - from a short excerpt from Wikipedia:

Thunderbolt controllers multiplex one or more individual data lanes from connected PCIe and DisplayPort devices for transmission via two duplex Thunderbolt lanes, then de-multiplex them for use by PCIe and DisplayPort devices on the other end.

This post was modified 2 months ago

purge-wranglerpurge-nvdaset-eGPU
2018 MacBook Pro 15" RP560X + RX 5700 XT (Mantiz Venus)


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joevt
(@joevt)
Prominent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@mac_editor

Wow, x4 Thunderbolt is worse than x1 PCIe 3.0... That could mean latency is a bigger factor than I thought. Additional columns to that chart would be very interesting: "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 2", "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 3", "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 4". Use Thunderbolt expansion boxes with no PCIe devices installed as the intermediary Thunderbolt device in the chain.

The thing about multiplexing - I don't see how it's different than a PCIe switch that has to move packets from an upstream link to downstream link. The links may have different speeds and widths like Thunderbolt but PCIe switches seem to do the job well enough. Maybe there's things that USB4 and Thunderbolt have to deal with that a PCIe switch does not so a PCIe switch can do it more efficiently.

From the USB4 spec there appears to be a tradeoff between throughput and latency for USB4 (page 330) and PCIe (page 422). It might apply to Thunderbolt as well. 

 

This post was modified 2 months ago

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


itsage liked
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itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@eightarmedpet That’s a solid plan. The Thunderbolt 3 AIB has always worked for me in terms of producing Thunderbolt 3 monitor output as long as there’s sufficient power.

Posted by: @joevt

@mac_editor

Wow, x4 Thunderbolt is worse than x1 PCIe 3.0… That could mean latency is a bigger factor than I thought. Additional columns to that chart would be very interesting: “x4 TB3 eGPU chain 2”, “x4 TB3 eGPU chain 3”, “x4 TB3 eGPU chain 4”. Use Thunderbolt expansion boxes with no PCIe devices installed as the intermediary Thunderbolt device in the chain.

This is a great suggestion. I will find time and equipment to give these tests a shot.

This post was modified 2 months ago

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@itsage look forward to your findings because most of this is way over my head, I'm just after a single cable solution and the most FPS possible... 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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