2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX Vega 56 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS...
 
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2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX Vega 56 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.14.3 & Win10 [Eightarmedpet]  

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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
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Joined: 4 years ago
 

@user99999

I’m not sure... i was able to instal but when I Tried to install bootcamp drivers things went south quickly, same with 1809, so it may be my model of MacBook and the specific build of bootcamp drivers. 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2018 Mac Mini [8th,6C,B] + RX 580 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node Lite) + Win10 20H2 [build link]  


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itsage
(@itsage)
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Joined: 4 years ago
 

Microsoft has refused to join the Thunderbolt bandwagon because Intel and Apple make all the rules. You would see the #1 compliant of loyal Surface users is the lack of Thunderbolt connectivity. Until there's a Microsoft laptop with Thunderbolt 3, they won't bother testing compatibility prior to releasing these updates.

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2020 13" MacBook Pro [10th,4C,G] + RX 6700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (CM MasterCase EG200) + Win10 1903 [build link]  


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
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I think my two brain cells just bumped into each other and have sparked an idea, which may lead to me finally being able to drive my 5K AND have a single cable solution, the best part, I have all the parts already...

I've somehow always over looked Daisy chaining... while Daisy chaining egpu's through a single port the bandwidth is split between the two enclosures (source) but if the first item in the chain uses virtually no bandwidth the egpu at he end shouldn't have any issues.

What I'm thinking is... MacBook Pro > Akitio Node lite with TB3 add in card > Mantiz venus 
Plug the 5K into the TB3 card in the Node Lite, and use DP to TB3 cables to route GPU power into the Node lite.

It may be a month before I can dig everything out (house renovations) but wanted to get it down before I forgot. If anyone fancies sense checking that would be appreciated but I'll give it a go myself asap....

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2018 Mac Mini [8th,6C,B] + RX 580 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node Lite) + Win10 20H2 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
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@eightarmedpet

Seems like that should work. @itsage already proved that an eGPU doesn't need to be first in the chain (is that true in Windows too?) when he connected 4 eGPUs to a Mac. However, I don't see how this is an improvement to the case where the TB3 AIC is not in the chain (if the TB3 AIC is working otherwise). I think your method eliminates a power switch that the AIC would require if it were not in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure? And maybe one day your method will allow PCIe tunneling through the AIC that is inside a Thunderbolt enclosure (would require somebody to make a driver - maybe a USB4 solution will exist before then).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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mac_editor
(@mac_editor)
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@eightarmedpet

That would work but would this not increase latency (CPU-GPU)? Or maybe this is negligible. I am interested in seeing performance differences between a direct-connected eGPU vs. daisy-chained eGPU. There is probably some reasoning regarding the recommendation of plugging in GPUs directly. 

@joevt would appreciate your thoughts on this as well. I also wanted to understand “latency” in terms of “gaming” FPS. Does higher latency = lower FPS, or lower frame time, or both, or something else?

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2019 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + RX Vega 64 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.14.6 & Win10 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
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@mac_editor

I haven't made any measurements myself. I have seen benchmarks from others showing SSD performance drop in Thunderbolt chains but I don't know how that translates to GPUs. I expect there to be a difference but I don't know how much. Is latency similar to a change in PCIe link width or speed? Maybe in some ways but I don't think it should be as bad as halving the bandwidth (like reducing PCIe link width or speed would).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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mac_editor
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@joevt I found this test to be enlightening regarding bandwidth: https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/a-call-for-measurements-isolating-the-thunderbolt-effect/paged/5/#post-14987

It would seem that bandwidth is far from being the primary constraint on thunderbolt. I am hoping to understand the real constraint.

Perhaps it is this multiplexing and de-multiplexing that induces latency - from a short excerpt from Wikipedia:

Thunderbolt controllers multiplex one or more individual data lanes from connected PCIe and DisplayPort devices for transmission via two duplex Thunderbolt lanes, then de-multiplex them for use by PCIe and DisplayPort devices on the other end.

purge-wranglertbt-flashpurge-nvdaset-eGPU
Insights Into macOS Video Editing Performance

Master Threads:
2014 15-inch MacBook Pro 750M
2018 15-inch MacBook Pro

 
2019 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + RX Vega 64 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.14.6 & Win10 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
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@mac_editor

Wow, x4 Thunderbolt is worse than x1 PCIe 3.0... That could mean latency is a bigger factor than I thought. Additional columns to that chart would be very interesting: "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 2", "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 3", "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 4". Use Thunderbolt expansion boxes with no PCIe devices installed as the intermediary Thunderbolt device in the chain.

The thing about multiplexing - I don't see how it's different than a PCIe switch that has to move packets from an upstream link to downstream link. The links may have different speeds and widths like Thunderbolt but PCIe switches seem to do the job well enough. Maybe there's things that USB4 and Thunderbolt have to deal with that a PCIe switch does not so a PCIe switch can do it more efficiently.

From the USB4 spec there appears to be a tradeoff between throughput and latency for USB4 (page 330) and PCIe (page 422). It might apply to Thunderbolt as well. 

 

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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itsage
(@itsage)
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@eightarmedpet That's a solid plan. The Thunderbolt 3 AIB has always worked for me in terms of producing Thunderbolt 3 monitor output as long as there's sufficient power.

Posted by: @joevt

@mac_editor

Wow, x4 Thunderbolt is worse than x1 PCIe 3.0... That could mean latency is a bigger factor than I thought. Additional columns to that chart would be very interesting: "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 2", "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 3", "x4 TB3 eGPU chain 4". Use Thunderbolt expansion boxes with no PCIe devices installed as the intermediary Thunderbolt device in the chain.

This is a great suggestion. I will find time and equipment to give these tests a shot.

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external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide

 
2020 13" MacBook Pro [10th,4C,G] + RX 6700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (CM MasterCase EG200) + Win10 1903 [build link]  


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
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@itsage look forward to your findings because most of this is way over my head, I'm just after a single cable solution and the most FPS possible... 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2018 Mac Mini [8th,6C,B] + RX 580 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node Lite) + Win10 20H2 [build link]  


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