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2018 15" MacBook Pro (RP560X) [8th,6C,H] + Titan Black @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Sta...
 

2018 15" MacBook Pro (RP560X) [8th,6C,H] + Titan Black @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Station Pro) + macOS 10.14.4 & Win10 [OliverB]  

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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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System specs

-MacBook Pro 15 inch 2018, i7-8850 6-core, 32GB Ram, 1TB SSD
-External Monitor Samsung 2560x1440
-Mac OSX 10.14.4 beta, Windows 10 Build 1803

 

eGPU hardware

Asus XG Station Pro
nVidia GeForce GTX Titan Black

Hardware pictures

TitanBlackInAsus

Installation steps

MacOSX:

The Titan Black is natively supported by MacOSX/Mojave, but you will need addtional software (e.g. @mac_editor's purge-wrangler) to enable nVidia eGPUs.

About

(Note: The screenshot is taken by another mac, but the result is the same. Mojave is well supported with nVidia Kepler GPUs)

Windows:

It's very easy for nVidia cards, please follow my Bootcamp guide!

 

Benchmarks

1) MacOSX Computing:

 

This card has the feature to enable Double precision FLOPS (FP64). CudaZ:

FP64 off (default) FP64 on
CudaZ OCBios

CudaZ FP64onOC

 

2000 Giga FLOPS double precision is something not many cards can achieve. It's still one of the best FP64 cards ever. More than double flops than a RX Vega 64.

 

2) MacOSX Gaming:

Borderlands2 2560x1440p Ultra Settings: 

GTX Titan Black GTX 1080 Ti RX Vega 56
Borderlands2

Borderlands2eGPU

Borderlands2 Vega56

The performance in MacOSX is outstanding. 


3) Windows:

Valley TitanBlack

In Windows the performance is good, but not as outstanding as the MacOSX performance. It's somewhere between a GTX1060 and a GTX1070.

4) Vulkan:

There is a myth that Kepler cards are only good in OpenGL, which is a long abandoned technology. This is not exactly true. They perform great in Metal and Vulkan, too.
Here are some benchmarks of Games using Vulkan API. Resolution 2560x1440p, Max Settings:

Doom:              57 FPS
Wolfenstein 2: 65 FPS

 

Comments

- It's very surprising that in this discussion about nVidia and Webdrivers nobody ever mentions Kepler cards.
- It's not true that nVidia cards do not run in Mojave.
- This card is a real alternative to AMD cards in Mojave.
- It's after EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 the most impressive GPU I ever tested.
- Performance gain of GTX Titan Black compared to Radeon Pro 560X: 2.71
- Performance gain of Radeon Pro compared to Intel UHD 630: 2.71
- The green color of GTX pairs great with the red color of Asus XG Station Pro.
- This card is sold here.

This topic was modified 5 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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OliverB
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I am lucky to have two cards, of course I don't need both, so I am selling one.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Eightarmedpet
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@oliver genuine question - what is purge wrangler doing to get this card to work? If it's natively supported (as in drivers are baked into the OS) what do you need purge wrangler for?

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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goalque
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Natively supported in a classic Mac Pro, not as an eGPU. Patches required.

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OliverB
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Posted by: goalque

Natively supported in a classic Mac Pro, not as an eGPU. Patches required.

@eightarmedpet, @goalque is saying it precisely, Apple still bans nVidia eGPU for some reason while supporting it natively at the same moment. It doesn't make lot of sense like many things.

I have some surprising results. In another MacOSX Benchmark this GeForce GTX Titan Black is performing better than a RX Vega 56.
Admitted, it's an nVidia friendly benchmark, but it's backed by other benchmarks, too.

  GTX Titan Black RX Vega 56
Unigine Valley Extreme HD
Valley TitanBlackMacOSX

Valley Vega56 MacOSX


I wonder, when the GTX Titan Black performing not much worse than a Vega56 and works perfectly in Mojave, why it's not within the discussions about nVidia Webdrivers, AMD cards etc? People are always telling, nVidia won't work in Mojave, everybody must use AMD. This is not true.

@itsage, @eightarmedpet, @goalque, @mac_editor, you know a lot about the eGPU scene. Do you have an explanation for this phenomena?

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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mac_editor
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@oliverb The native NVIDIA drivers are actually superb. They are clearly better (vs. AMD) especially on the outdated OpenGL currently available on macOS, and even on Metal in some cases. These GPUs do a fine job. Try some FCP/DaVinci benchmarks as well. Realistic workloads are better representative of performance.

This post was modified 8 months ago

purge-wranglerpurge-nvdaset-eGPU
2018 MacBook Pro 15" RP560X + RX 5700 XT (Mantiz Venus)


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OliverB
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Posted by: mac_editor

@oliverb The native NVIDIA drivers are actually superb. They are clearly better (vs. AMD) especially on the outdated OpenGL currently available on macOS, and even on Metal in some cases. These GPUs do a fine job. Try some FCP/DaVinci benchmarks as well. Realistic workloads are better representative of performance.

I still can't understand, why this is on nobody's screen. It's common sense that Mojave automatically requires AMD. I have been on this site for quite a long time and didn't know. It was by accident that I read GTX680 was supported in Mojave and started digging for the reasons. 
There are lot of Kepler cards which perform quite well, too, so this shouldn't be the reason. It's because of age of the cards? They are not hyped, so nobody sees them as a possibility.

This post was modified 8 months ago

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goalque
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Apple & AMD never invested in improving OpenGL drivers. "Designed more than 25 years ago" is a good reason. Nvidia did in vain. Now OpenGL is deprecated.

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Eightarmedpet
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Posted by: OliverB
Posted by: mac_editor

@oliverb The native NVIDIA drivers are actually superb. They are clearly better (vs. AMD) especially on the outdated OpenGL currently available on macOS, and even on Metal in some cases. These GPUs do a fine job. Try some FCP/DaVinci benchmarks as well. Realistic workloads are better representative of performance.

I still can't understand, why this is on nobody's screen. It's common sense that Mojave automatically requires AMD. I have been on this site for quite a long time and didn't know. It was by accident that I read GTX680 was supported in Mojave and started digging for the reasons. 
There are lot of Kepler cards which perform quite well, too, so this shouldn't be the reason. It's because of age of the cards? They are not hyped, so nobody sees them as a possibility.

I think you’ve hit on the issue at the end there. I too keep getting caught up in the latest and greatest when there haven’t been massive improvements in GPUs across the board for years and as you’ve found out, high end older gen cards can still pack a punch. I always knew 680 gen cards were supported due the old iMacs I believe? Or was it the Mac Pro’s? But never really paid attention because they are a few gems old.

Oh also, careful with your accusations, I know very little  😉

This post was modified 8 months ago

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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mac_editor
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Posted by: OliverB

I still can't understand, why this is on nobody's screen. It's common sense that Mojave automatically requires AMD. I have been on this site for quite a long time and didn't know. It was by accident that I read GTX680 was supported in Mojave and started digging for the reasons. 
There are lot of Kepler cards which perform quite well, too, so this shouldn't be the reason. It's because of age of the cards? They are not hyped, so nobody sees them as a possibility.

Newer cards = longer support. Given that Apple has gone the AMD route, it is clear where we will see improvements, and where future technologies will perform better (Vulkan/Metal). Buying decisions aren't always made based on how things are now, but also on the future (evident with the deprecation of OpenCL/GL - which will be completely removed with 2019's macOS release). Everything would be awesome if Apple starts supporting both vendors.

This post was modified 8 months ago

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OliverB
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Posted by: mac_editor

Newer cards = longer support. Given that Apple has gone the AMD route, it is clear where we will see improvements, and where future technologies will perform better (Vulkan/Metal). Buying decisions aren't always made based on how things are now, but also on the future (evident with the deprecation of OpenCL/GL - which will be completely removed with 2019's macOS release). Everything would be awesome if Apple starts supporting both vendors.

@mac_editor,

good that you mention Vulkan, a 3D API which is really great. Actually the GTX Titan Black performs well in Vulkan (and Metal btw.).

Doom: 2560x1440p, Max Details: 57 FPS
Wolfenstein 2: 2560x1440p, Max Details: 65 FPS

Every detail and AA is maxed out. Highest Settings.
An EVGA GTX 780 6GB is almost as good, only 3GB cards are weak in those benchmark, just because of the RAM, not for the chip.

So why exactly is this an argument against Kepler cards? It's not that they only can OpenGL. Not at all. They are fully Metal and Vulkan capable.

BTW: Are you interested in the same benchmarks of the Radeon VII? Better not... So much about AMD is only investing in future 3D technology ;p

Posted by: goalque

Apple & AMD never invested in improving OpenGL drivers. "Designed more than 25 years ago" is a good reason. Nvidia did in vain. Now OpenGL is deprecated.

@goalque,

This argument would count if the "old" Kepler cards were weak in Metal and Vulkan. But they are not. See post above!

This post was modified 8 months ago

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goalque
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Posted by: OliverB
Posted by: goalque

Apple & AMD never invested in improving OpenGL drivers. "Designed more than 25 years ago" is a good reason. Nvidia did in vain. Now OpenGL is deprecated.

@goalque,

This argument would count if the "old" Kepler cards were weak in Metal and Vulkan. But they are not. See post above!

@oliverb I answered your question "I wonder, when the GTX Titan Black performing not much worse than a Vega56 and works perfectly in Mojave" and you compared OpenGL performance on macOS, therefore my argument is valid. I didn't mention Vulkan or Windows.

My EVGA GTX 780 6GB performs much worse than RX 580 in all GFXBench Metal tests on Mojave 10.14.4, except in tests close to 60FPS and in texturing. Not sure if disabling Vertical Sync (previously known as Beam Sync) in Quartz Debug makes any difference.

The second reason why I can't recommend older Nvidia is the H2D bottleneck 22xx vs 26xx MiB/s which comes apparent in low-level Metal API:

https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/metal-api-shines-rx-480-reaches-60fps-on-macos-10-12-4-fhd-ultra-high-settings/#post-13962

not much in DX11 & Windows, or in bandwidth insensitive games. However, Metal seems to take all available bandwidth of an AMD eGPU. I don't understand why Apple restricts Nvidia's H2D speed on macOS.

My last experience with OpenGL was in the late 90s, in introduction to computer graphics course. More and more games are using Metal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_(API)

This post was modified 8 months ago

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OliverB
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@goalque
Of course, an EVGA GTX 780 is not better than a RX580 in all over performance. But my GTX Titan Black which is about 20% better than a GTX780 (15 SMX compared to 12 SMX plus higher memory bandwidth and clocks) performs at least equal to RX580 in many aspects, if not better in nVidia friendly games and benchmarks.

Of the gfxMetal benchmarks only the offscreen benchmarks are useful because the onscreen tests get "vsync'ed".

As I have both cards (A GTX Titan Black and a very fast RX580, Sapphire Nitro+, both equally OCed) I will do a comparison of both cards in the next days, it will be interesting. It will be something like my battle between GTX 1080 TI and Radeon VII, which yielded a clear winner.

Important question for preparation: Do you know any other Metal Benchmarks I can use other than gfxMetal?

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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goalque
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@oliverb
Yeah, and I wonder what would be the performance if Nvidia was able to reach the same 26xx MiB/s H2D transfers (clpeak, CL!ing and CUDA-Z indicating the same problem) on macOS. The only problem with Metal is its proprietary technology, not cross platform the same way as OpenGL was. Of course there are still apps that make use of deprecated OpenGL/OpenCL but software vendors are now forced to build with Metal - OpenGL/OpenCL has officially come to the end of its life cycle on macOS. That was my main point.

You have a wonderful collection of cards, I am looking forward to your tests. Especially Metal games if you can. Geekbech 4 is also a good Metal performance indicator.

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@goalque,
which Metal game(s) would you suppose to test?

About my card collection:
I sell a lot of cards after testing and refurbishing them, but sometimes it breaks my heart to sell one 🙂
And sometimes there are surprises. You say you have an EVGA GTX 780 6GB, it's this one, isn't it?

EVGA GTX780 Package

I have opened and cleaned it just today. The chip is supposed to be GK110-300-B1, which isn't, it's actually GK110-301-B1...

EVGA GTX780 GK110 301 B1

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goalque
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I don't have a favourite. Choose any you like.

Yes, I happen to own the rare 6GB version (06G-P4-3787-KR), I don't want to sell it 😀

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OliverB
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@goalque

you may find this picture interesting, too. It's a little confusing as in some boxes there different cards 😀

Gedoens

Posted by: goalque

I don't have a favourite. Choose any you like.

Yes, I happen to own the rare 6GB version (06G-P4-3787-KR), I don't want to sell it 😀

Ah, this card is so beautiful! Is this model rare or are the 6GB rare? Those 6GB make the difference, the 3GB versions are hardly usable nowadays.

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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goalque
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Well, I just meant 6GB, not sure about availability. May I ask what's your profession? Owning such a bunch of cards cannot be just a hobby, or can it?

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Posted by: goalque

Well, I just meant 6GB, not sure about availability. May I ask what's your profession? Owning such a bunch of cards cannot be just a hobby, or can it?

I am a software developer but my profession has nothing to do with GPUs. It's really just a hobby. It has just got my interest, because since years I only use macbooks and with eGPUs this got new possibilities. Who has ever thought before, that a card like GTX1080Ti can actually work with an ultrabook?

You are also software developer, aren't you? You and @mac_editor are doing a fantastic work. It's almost unbelievable.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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goalque
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Yes, I am a senior software developer (approximately 15 years). I didn't know anything about GPUs before I really got fond of external GPUs.

Welcome aboard 🙂

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OliverB
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This is most balanced setup. Performance gain iGPU : dGPU : eGPU

1 : e : e^2

(e = Euler number)

Here the screenshots for the Test coming in the next post:

gfxMetalBench Vega56
GfxMetal internal TitanBlack Webdriver
GfxMetal internal TitanBlack nativ
GfxMetal internal RX580
gfxBench2018eGPU GTX1080Ti

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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OliverB
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@goalque, @mac_editor, I still don't own any Metal Games, but I made the comparision with gfxMetal, which is quite interesting.

FPS Offscreen RX580 Titan Black nativ Titan Black Webdriver
1440p Aztec Ruins 101.4 105.9 96.0
1080p Car Chase 192.8 177.7 177.9
1440p Manhattan 3.1 216.7 192.2 189.9

.

Conclusions:
-Kepler nativ beats AMD which beats Kepler Webdriver
-For higher FPS the bandwidth limits the performance, therefore AMD is leading in those tests.
-The ratio of 1440p Manhattan is 217:190 = 1.14 = 2600:2280 (compare with H2D Bandwidth!)
-Both cards are clearly beaten in Aztec Ruins by Vega56 (157.4 FPS) and GTX1080Ti (196.4 FPS)
-Always when you think that AMD is good, nVidia is better.

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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goalque
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Yes, H2D comes into play at higher FPS rates. Bad thing for Nvidia. Keep in mind that a new Titan Black costs $730 and a mid-range Sapphire Radeon Pulse $200 (a quick Amazon price comparison).

From my above screenshot, FPS offscreen and RX 580:

1440p Aztec Ruins 103.9 FPS
1440p Manhattan 3.1.1 226.4 FPS

I got better numbers for RX 580. gfxMetal doesn't seem to be accurate if there is ~10FPS difference. A single test doesn't prove anything. Needs more rounds, games and an arithmetic mean.

This post was modified 7 months ago

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You are right, it's only one test. I really have to get my hands on some Metal Games. I have all kind of software but none of those. 🙁

PS: 730$ is a little bit too much, I have sold my second used Titan Black just today for 280$. still more expensive than a RX580, of course. Everybody knows that the money/value ratio of AMD is great, a RX580 has the best money/value of all cards since it came out.

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goalque
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Interesting numbers, though. If Apple did not set artificial H2D barriers, Nvidia would be a nice option.

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Posted by: goalque

Interesting numbers, though. If Apple did not set artificial H2D barriers, Nvidia would be a nice option.

It's the best nVidia card that runs on Mojave. A GTX1080Ti is double as powerful, but won't run in Mojave and nVidia Webdrivers are not very good in High Sierra. Vega56/64 are still the most powerful cards for Mojave.

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OliverB
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Update: Since the official support for Mojave 10.14.5 it looks as the RadeonVII is the most powerful card for Mojave.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Some history:
The Kepler architecture was the first big step of nVidia towards new technology and the domination of the GPU market. Kepler GK110B is a very powerful chip with a lot features, possibilities and an outstanding FP64 unit, far beyond its time. In the development of the next generation, Maxwell, nVidia focused more on energy efficiency. The next (and until today last) chip with that huge impact on GPUs was Pascal GP102.

 

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I have upgraded with the GTX Titan Black. I bought a GTX Titan Black without fan and mounted the cooler and fan of a defective EVGA GTX 780 Ti ACX on it. This EVGA ACX Cooler is far superior to the nVidia reference cooler and to any generic Accelero cooler, too, because it would have the exact matching layout.

Here are hardware pictures:

GTX780TiDefAndTitanBlackNoFan
GTXTitanBlack w GTX780Ti Fan Open Cooler

Left site. the defective GTX 780 Ti and GTX Titan Black without. Right site: Disassembled ACX Cooler. Note the perfect match to the card layout.

TitanBlackWithGTX780TiFan
FourTitansStanding

Here is a comparison of the new assembled Titan Black with ACX Cooler on the right site with 3 "old fashioned" Titan Blacks.

Once this ACX Cooler is mounted the difference is amazing. With the nVidia reference blower cooler Unigine Valley arrives at 86° C temperature after a third and will be throttled. The ACX Cooler won't surpass  80°C at any time. It's much less noisy, too, for obvious reasons.

Of course, you need to overclock the card to use the full potential of a strong cooler, see your self the difference:

 Base Clock OC with Reference Cooler OC with EVGA ACX Cooler
Velley 2600 NonOC

Valley TitanBlack

Valley3015 TitanBlack

I did not try to reach the max OC potential of the high quality chip. Between Reference Cooler and ACX Cooler there not only a difference in performance, but as well in noise and temperature.
A little drawback is the label "GTX 780 Ti". There are ACX coolers that are labeled "GTX Titan Black", but they are very hard to get. "GTX 780 Ti" is not so wrong, because it's exact the same chip (GK110B with 15 SMX), so it's not wrong to it's a "GTX 780 Ti 6GB"

Conclusions:
- The board layout of GTX 780 Ti and GTX Titan Black is identical.
- EVGA ACX Cooler for GTX 780 (Ti) fits perfectly on a GTX Titan Black, even covering the memory chips.
- The GTX Titan Black pairs very well with an Asus XG Station Pro.
- A score of over 3000 in Ungine Valley Extreme HD is amazing for a 5 year old card.
- One great aspect of the GTX Titan Black, the FP64 double precision performance will be enhanced, too.
- In order to get the full OC potential in MacOSX, the BIOS should be flashed. I have don this and will report it later.

This post was modified 6 months ago

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Macmanca
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Hi Oliver/communtiy, any idea if I used the GTX titan you are talking about on my MacBook Pro 2018 15" (2.9 GHz Intel Core i9, 32gigs of Ram, Intel UDh Graphics 630) in my eGPU, if would be recognized by Octane for Cinema 4D 3D rendering? Right now I have a Sapphire Vega64 in the eGPU and it won't work with Octane rendering engine (I have to use Prorender and it is still slow with the AMD Vega 64 (way better than without, but... ). Or would I have to use bootcamp to get the Octane to recognize the Nvidia Titan? Am I making sense? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Macmanca
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Hi Oliver, second question, would this card work in the scenario you are talking about? Debating on trying the setup you have vs. RTX 2080, again my setup isn't for gaming, it is for cinema 3d rendering (possibly Octane or Redshift)

https://www.vgastore.com/2021362/nvidia-900_1g600_2500_000-geforce-gtx-titan-x-12gb-384-bit-gddr5-pci-express-3-0-hdcp-ready-sli-support-video-card

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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