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2018 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + Radeon VII @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core) + macOS ...
 

2018 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + Radeon VII @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core) + macOS 10.14.4 [itsage]  

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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

@kelvin_tan dude you got lucky with that card, have you try doing 2000Mhz+? I modded my card a little bit, sanded the cooler, put kryonaut thermal paste and also added washers in the bracket, it did help my junction temp with the card overclocked goes between 75-90c depending on the game.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

@oliverb see all the games i have, tell me the ones you want me to benchmark
1. Steam: https://take.ms/fKetQ / https://take.ms/ez71Y
2.Origin: https://take.ms/xa5up
3.UPlay: https://take.ms/cBPK1
4. Windows Store: https://take.ms/FlWwg

See Forza Horizon 4 benchmark: https://take.ms/PPjO6

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

@franky it does work, i injected the device id and it is fine, but however it is unstable for me like previous betas.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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Joined: 1 year ago
 

@juan_c_yunis, I have finished the Forza Horizon 4 Benchmark and it looks good. 64 FPS is a good score (my GTX 1080 Ti does 67 FPS here). I can't do 3440x1440 with this monitor, only 2560x1440:

ForzaHorizon4 1440pUltra

As to be expected the Wattman-curve looks good, too:

ForzaHorizon4 1440pUltra Wattmann

So it's still unknown why exactly is this stuttering with the DXMD Benchmark? Or why the bad performance of the SOTTR Benchmark? But it's late now, I have to go to sleep.

@juan_c_yunis, thank you for your support until now!

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

@oliverb i'm glad my friend, forza horizon 4 is a very good and optimized game and also it is not that power hungry. So maybe is not exceeding power, and maybe that is the reason with the other games is throttling, try a different PSU if you can.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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Joined: 1 year ago
 
Posted by: Juan C. Yunis

@oliverb i'm glad my friend, forza horizon 4 is a very good and optimized game and also it is not that power hungry. So maybe is not exceeding power, and maybe that is the reason with the other games is throttling, try a different PSU if you can.

Yes, of course, it's becoming more and more clear, that the "limited" PSU is the reason for the problems. Unfortunately the ASUS XG Station Pro doesn't give much options.
Have a good night 🙂

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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(@sean_mcnamara)
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Joined: 9 months ago
 

Man oh man, I go away for a few hours and the post is littered with folks trying to get gaming performance out of the VII on Windows! I thought this was a thread about the VII on MacBooks. Why run Windows on a Mac? If you're running Windows just build a gaming desktop or get a Thunderbolt 3 Windows 10 Ultrabook and eGPU to that...

Anyway, back on topic: A little update about the macOS 10.14.4 Beta 5 drivers. I now have a similar experience as Juan C. Yunis' latest post regarding macOS driver stability -- unfortunately. Here are my observations:

  • The drivers are still unstable, but it seems that the whole system doesn't crash, just WindowServer (/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/SkyLight.framework/Resources/WindowServer) which is the macOS equivalent to the X server on Linux. If you unplug the eGPU with the lid open, WindowServer dies and restarts, you type in your password, and you can get back into the system. Some programs that use the GPU will also crash (web browsers, games, etc.) but other programs that don't use the GPU like the Terminal will keep running and just connect to the new WindowServer as if nothing happened.
  • Unfortunately, something gets corrupted in the GPU state when WindowServer comes back, so if you plug the eGPU back in and keep going, you will get weird errors. For one thing, Discord won't start at all. Discord uses a desktop application framework built on Chromium, so it definitely uses GPU rendering in some capacity. It just crashes on startup until you reboot the system. Furthermore, I got rendering errors (incorrect colors on some textures and even worse instability) in Elder Scrolls Online after restarting WindowServer.
  • I had a long (6 hour or so) period of stability earlier today, even with ESO, Discord and Firefox running constantly, but then it fairly abruptly hung mid-day. The frequency of the hangs seems to be reduced since Beta 4, but it still happens.
  • Nothing shows up in dmesg when it hangs. It's possible the hang is in userspace, but I suspect there is some kernel-mode or firmware-level data corruption that persists, because of the issues explained above.
  • I still can't figure out any particular usage pattern or rendering scene that causes a hang. It's really not clear to me how to reliably reproduce a WindowServer hang/crash.
  • Perhaps most importantly for performance, it seems the GPU always stays at 350 MHz on macOS. I hit it with Luxmark, Unigine Valley, and ESO, and I can't get the Radeon VII's fans to rev up appreciably or to even feel that it gets particularly hot. No matter what I throw at it, the performance is only about 1.5 - 2x better than the built-in Vega Pro 20 in my MacBook Pro 2018, which is lower than expected considering it's a desktop card, 7nm, higher clocks, more HBM2 and 3x more CUs than my MBP's dGPU. This is clearly the driver just leaving the card at its idle clocks because it doesn't know any better.

In conclusion, the macOS drivers as of 10.14.4 Beta 5 still can't be relied on for a stable system, but they seem to have fixed at least a couple code paths that were causing hangs/crashes previously, because I could barely even watch a YouTube video or even start ESO without it crashing on Beta 4. Also, all the binary files inside the Radeon kexts have been "touched" on a very recent date, which suggests the drivers are indeed newer. Perhaps Apple will hold up the release of macOS 10.14.4 to wait for AMD to stabilize the driver? I hope so.

2018 15" MBP (Vega Pro 20), ASUS ROG XG Station 2, Radeon VII


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Kelvin Tan
(@kelvin_tan)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

@juan_c_yunis it can do 1900mhz @1030mV, and 2000mhz needs to push it to 1150mV. I live in the tropics so prefer cool and quiet, thus [email protected] is perfect for my use.

I heard the washer mod helps lots with the temps! Where I live however the warranty is invalidated by removal of the sticker, so I'll just leave it be for now.

Just waiting now for stable Mac daily use, right now it's little more than a paperweight. Really hope 10.14.4 final has support for it.

X1 Yoga Gen3, X1 Tablet Gen 3, MacBook Pro 15" 2018
Razer Core X / Mantiz Venus
Asrock Radeon VII, Zotac Nvidia 1080Ti Amp Core Extreme, Powercolor Vega 56 reference (flashed to V64 bios)


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: Kelvin Tan

@juan_c_yunis it can do 1900mhz @1030mV, and 2000mhz needs to push it to 1150mV. I live in the tropics so prefer cool and quiet, thus [email protected] is perfect for my use.

I heard the washer mod helps lots with the temps! Where I live however the warranty is invalidated by removal of the sticker, so I'll just leave it be for now.

Just waiting now for stable Mac daily use, right now it's little more than a paperweight. Really hope 10.14.4 final has support for it.

Nice, I also live in a hot and humid area, having Temps close to 40 Celsius sometimes or even more when summer season.

The mod I did is helping a lot, I'm running it at [email protected] with memory at 1200 and it's very stable. I'm looking to get it to 2000+ stable, this card scales very nice with overclocking.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 
Posted by: Sean McNamara

Man oh man, I go away for a few hours and the post is littered with folks trying to get gaming performance out of the VII on Windows! I thought this was a thread about the VII on MacBooks. Why run Windows on a Mac?

@sean_mcnamara, one reason (amongst a lot of others) is, that the performance of the Radeon VII under MacOSX is bad. In Windows there is a decent performance.

I have not experienced instabilities with 10.14.4 beta 4, but wouldn't be surprised as this injection is "misusing" a driver for another card.

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
Prominent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Sean McNamara

Man oh man, I go away for a few hours and the post is littered with folks trying to get gaming performance out of the VII on Windows! I thought this was a thread about the VII on MacBooks. Why run Windows on a Mac? If you're running Windows just build a gaming desktop or get a Thunderbolt 3 Windows 10 Ultrabook and eGPU to that...

Anyway, back on topic: A little update about the macOS 10.14.4 Beta 5 drivers. I now have a similar experience as Juan C. Yunis' latest post regarding macOS driver stability -- unfortunately. Here are my observations:

  • The drivers are still unstable, but it seems that the whole system doesn't crash, just WindowServer (/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/SkyLight.framework/Resources/WindowServer) which is the macOS equivalent to the X server on Linux. If you unplug the eGPU with the lid open, WindowServer dies and restarts, you type in your password, and you can get back into the system. Some programs that use the GPU will also crash (web browsers, games, etc.) but other programs that don't use the GPU like the Terminal will keep running and just connect to the new WindowServer as if nothing happened.
  • Unfortunately, something gets corrupted in the GPU state when WindowServer comes back, so if you plug the eGPU back in and keep going, you will get weird errors. For one thing, Discord won't start at all. Discord uses a desktop application framework built on Chromium, so it definitely uses GPU rendering in some capacity. It just crashes on startup until you reboot the system. Furthermore, I got rendering errors (incorrect colors on some textures and even worse instability) in Elder Scrolls Online after restarting WindowServer.
  • I had a long (6 hour or so) period of stability earlier today, even with ESO, Discord and Firefox running constantly, but then it fairly abruptly hung mid-day. The frequency of the hangs seems to be reduced since Beta 4, but it still happens.
  • Nothing shows up in dmesg when it hangs. It's possible the hang is in userspace, but I suspect there is some kernel-mode or firmware-level data corruption that persists, because of the issues explained above.
  • I still can't figure out any particular usage pattern or rendering scene that causes a hang. It's really not clear to me how to reliably reproduce a WindowServer hang/crash.
  • Perhaps most importantly for performance, it seems the GPU always stays at 350 MHz on macOS. I hit it with Luxmark, Unigine Valley, and ESO, and I can't get the Radeon VII's fans to rev up appreciably or to even feel that it gets particularly hot. No matter what I throw at it, the performance is only about 1.5 - 2x better than the built-in Vega Pro 20 in my MacBook Pro 2018, which is lower than expected considering it's a desktop card, 7nm, higher clocks, more HBM2 and 3x more CUs than my MBP's dGPU. This is clearly the driver just leaving the card at its idle clocks because it doesn't know any better.

In conclusion, the macOS drivers as of 10.14.4 Beta 5 still can't be relied on for a stable system, but they seem to have fixed at least a couple code paths that were causing hangs/crashes previously, because I could barely even watch a YouTube video or even start ESO without it crashing on Beta 4. Also, all the binary files inside the Radeon kexts have been "touched" on a very recent date, which suggests the drivers are indeed newer. Perhaps Apple will hold up the release of macOS 10.14.4 to wait for AMD to stabilize the driver? I hope so.

Very useful post, thanks. We can’t whine yet about performance there is not even official support. I really hope 10.14.4 will have an initial stable release but I doubt it


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my awesome Radeon VII eGPU
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 
Posted by: Juan C. Yunis
 

Oh I use an external raid 0 USB c 3.2 Gen 2 10gbps, I have 2 x 1tb firecudas, and it runs pretty nice

Hehe, your solution is nice and fast (I am having a small USB3.1 Gen2 HD, too), but the features of such a Raid 5 - NAS are incredible, so I want to brag about them:

1) Access from anywhere (intranet and internet, if needed. My wife can access the data, too).
2) Fail-Safety because of Raid5
3) Lot of useful services like Media Server, Backup Service, Download Station.
4) Great price per TB.
...

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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eJony
(@ejony)
Active Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: Sean McNamara

Perhaps Apple will hold up the release of macOS 10.14.4 to wait for AMD to stabilize the driver? I hope so.

The stability of Radeon VII drivers for macOS 10.14.4 will not be in Apple's go/no-go criteria. 10.14.4 will release on March 25th. It is required to support what is happening with the new magazine/news subscription service. 

I just hope the Radeon VII drivers are stable enough to be included rather than completely cut from the release.

MacBook Pro 15" 2018 i9, 16GB, 1TB, Radeon 560x + CoreX + Radeon VII
MacOS 10.14.5 public beta 2 / Windows 10 19H1 (BootCamp)


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(@arden_shibley)
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Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: eJony

I just hope the Radeon VII drivers are stable enough to be included rather than completely cut from the release.

Please god yes

I bought a Razer Core X and RVII and have been waiting since release to use it... lol

This post was modified 8 months ago

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Sjoerd V.
(@sjoerd-v)
New Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

Beta 6 is out, does the trick still work?

Expected eGPU setup:
- Mac Mini 2018
- Razer Core X / Sonnet Breakaway Box / OWC Mercury Helios FX 650
- Radeon VII


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: Sjoerd V.

Beta 6 is out, does the trick still work?

Yes, it works

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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(@sean_mcnamara)
Active Member
Joined: 9 months ago
 

Radeon VII / 10.14.4 Beta 6 experience:

Not sure if I just keep hitting different kinds of bugs with each beta, but today Elder Scrolls Online froze at an app level and had to be force quit after about 10 minutes running. If it's hitting the same crashing codepath as before, this is actually an improvement, because there appear to be no negative side effects for the rest of the system when this process hangs. WindowServer doesn't freeze or die, and other rendering stuff continues to work well.

Now they might be propagating the error up the stack correctly so that the kernel / firmware / WindowServer don't get corrupted when user-land does something the driver doesn't like. Possible progress. Still stuck at 350 MHz (very sub-par performance compared to what the GPU is capable of).

2018 15" MBP (Vega Pro 20), ASUS ROG XG Station 2, Radeon VII


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(@sean_mcnamara)
Active Member
Joined: 9 months ago
 

macOS 10.14.4 final is released, and we still have to hack the driver to use the Radeon VII! 👿 Come on Apple...

2018 15" MBP (Vega Pro 20), ASUS ROG XG Station 2, Radeon VII


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DrEGPU
(@dregpu)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 
Posted by: OliverB
Posted by: itsage

Even though the drivers are not finalized, this Radeon VII looks to be a computing beast. Not sure why AMD pushed it as a gaming card. 

That's easy to answer: Money. Many more people spent money for gaming than for computing- and it's not a gaming card as the not-more-than-ok Unigine Benchmarks show.

I dunno. I'm a data scientist and we think nothing of spending tons of money for GPU computing power. We've had the DGX-1 for awhile now, and have another on order, in addition to a DGX-2. We're talking $100k's. 

Driver and library support aside (yes, I know about ROCm), I have doubts as to how the RVII would perform against nVidia Titans, GTX or RTX, much less the crazy DGX's. Still, it'd be nice to pair up with my Macbook for some relatively mobile work. 

This post was modified 7 months ago

MBP 2018 15 inch + 2X Aorus gaming box 1080 in BootCamp and MacOS 10.13.6
2011 13-inch MacBook Pro + Razer Core X@10Gbps-TB1 (Zotac RTX 2080 Ti Amp) + Ubuntu 18.04


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 

@dregpu
if you are scientist you should know that for FP64 Performance the Radeon VII is a beast. It's by far the best performance for money in this aspect. If you bring on the RTXs, you obviously do not any numeric calculations or simulations. Perhaps you are more some kind of esoteric scientist? Of course, this very important, too.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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DrEGPU
(@dregpu)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 

Aren't all scientists a little esoteric? 🙂

I mainly do image classification now for medical applications. I haven't seen any clearly convincing papers that show significant accuracy with FP64 over FP32, but there are clearly performance hits. In fact, for deep learning models, FP16 and/or mixed-precision seems to offer high accuracy while improving performance. I found this link comparing precision testing with the RVII. Seems like AMD is doing something right for deep learning...

https://techgage.com/article/testing-amd-radeon-vii-double-precision-scientific-and-financial-performance/

MBP 2018 15 inch + 2X Aorus gaming box 1080 in BootCamp and MacOS 10.13.6
2011 13-inch MacBook Pro + Razer Core X@10Gbps-TB1 (Zotac RTX 2080 Ti Amp) + Ubuntu 18.04


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 

@dregpu,
you are absolutely right 😉

Of course in medical application you don't need any FP64 precision. If you have a look at this setup guide with K6000, you can see a some professional applications tested. I don't know if FP64 is neede for deep learning, it's needed for solving numeric equations, but this goes rather into physics and mathematics 🙂 

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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