Setup & Software Discussions
2018 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + Radeon VII @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Station Pro)...
 

2018 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + Radeon VII @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Station Pro) + Win10 1809 [itsage]  

 of  2
  RSS

Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@oliverb what is it? to be honest with you i used to have a second EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 air, I loved that car with High Sierra and Windows, but since support was getting pretty bad in Mac, i decided to sell it, and i got the Vega FE, and that card was a monster but also hated by AMD in Windows and in Mac it wasn't performing to my likes, so i sold that one and got the Vega 64 Limited Edition and it was pretty good, it was performing better for me in Windows and Mac, then a friend of mine asked me to sell that GPU for his own eGPU system and i did that and decided to get the VII, and this card was giving me way better results than Vega 64 in Windows. Not sure what to think anymore lol, maybe Adrenalin 2019 broke a few things.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

@joi_kansai, your are correct, Forza Horizon 4 must be TB3 enemy, because when I switch to TB2 the performance goes down quite a lot. Further you cannot gain anything by decreasing the resolution 1080p is essentially the same as 1440p. Those are clear signs for massive bandwidth use.

That's probably the main reason why @itsage gets a much better score with the dGPU Vega 56.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Yes Forza Horizon 4 really shows the limits of Thunderbolt 3. I've tried RTX 2080 Ti eGPU at FHD and it barely exceed 60FPS. The RX Vega 56 in dGPU mode can go over 115FPS at FHD with ease.

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use

eGPU enclosure buying guide


OliverB liked
ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

@juan_c_yunis, it's hitting a specific set of games. The stuttering in Wattman is idiotic and a clear glitch. I would like to know the reasons so I ordered a Razer Core X, just to be sure, it's not the power.
The more I test the more I have the feeling that the quality of game plays a decisive role, the more I like the Radeon VII.. if only it weren't so loud on load :/

This post was modified 5 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@oliverb @itsage yeah, i think that maybe some games are reaching the max bandwidth from TB3, with AC: Odyssey changing resolutions doesn't really make a big difference in FPS, same thing for Anthem. And not only resolutions but also lowering settings too.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


ReplyQuote
omardesu
(@omardesu)
Trusted Member
Joined: 9 months ago
 

Time to wait for TB4... 😉

1070 Ti: 2014 Mac mini / 2016 MBP 15"
Mini ITX Build in Dan A4 Case


itsage liked
ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: omardesu

Time to wait for TB4... 😉

Actually not many application and games use the full TB3 bandwidth. Computing and Synthetic Benchmarks use only a very small part of it.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


itsage liked
ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

@itsage, Razer Core X has just arrived. I put the Radeon VII inside and attach it to my laptop. Are you interested in the result, if there is any change compared with the Asus XG Station Pro?

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@oliverb i'm interested.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: Juan C. Yunis

@oliverb i'm interested.

Ok.. it's absolute the same. The same pathetic performance and the same stuttering for a specific set of games.

DXMD RazerCore
DXMD RazerCore Wattman

So what is the exact reason for this? I will test it on other macbook and I have ordered another Radeon VII in order to do more tests.

About the Razer Core X: I had it once, still a fine build quality, but huge and some noise. I have the feeling it's less loud than it used to be. Is this possible?

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@oliverb hey I see some improvement there, about 1-2 FPS, haha just kidding. I like that you are ordering everything to figure out the problem. Hopefully is a driver issue (it definitely looks like) and we can bother AMD about it.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

This is the best way to found out the defective part of a whole setup: replace each part. 

Could your @juan_c_yunis check "Resident Evil 6 Benchmark" with your Radeon VII. It's a free benchmark, so the result would be very interesting. Same goes for you, @itsage or anybody else with an Radeon VII.

For Information (RE6, 1440p, Highest setting):
GTX 1080 Ti: about 18.000
(my)Radeon VII: about 8.000

Wow, look at this...it's beaten by a GTX690.

0DO6PrP

This post was modified 5 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

This is total sick. Resident Evil 6 Benchmark 1440p yields a better result with RX570 than with RadeonVII.
We are talking about the exact same system/setup.

Radeon RX 570 Radeon VII
RE6 1440p TB2 RX570

RE6 1440p TB2 RVII

Conclusions:
-The problem is not bound to a particular TB3-enclosure.
-The problem is not bound to a particular MacBookPro.
-The problem is not a general AMD problem.
-Other games suffer under the same fate like Deus Ex, TombRaider.
-It's like David vs Goliath: The Little Puck defeats the Razer Core X with Radeon VII.
-It's bug of AMD alone with either the card itself and/or the Radeon VII driver. 

This post was modified 5 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
Roedi78
(@roedi78)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 

@oliverb I checked with my system the RE6 benchmark.
I got 7557 points in 1440p and (nearly the same result !!!) 7521 points in 2160p, all with maximum graphics settings.

What else to say? In both runs the MacBookPro cpu fan runs at full speed, during 1440p the Radeon VII was complete quiet (!!), like in idle mode / not under load. In 2160p the fans went up a little bit, but nothing compared to other (newer) benchmark tests/games.

Conclusions:
- Same score in 1440p and 2160p? 😕 Hard to believe that the GPU is the problem here...
- Maybe CPU is the bottleneck in this case, GPU was bored..
- Drivers not well optimized for older games?! 
- AMD drivers not optimized for that engine at all (benchmark starts with nvidia logo 😎 )...
- Benchmark is from 2012 (DirextX 9.0c), so I don't mind that the card is such a fail in that particular case...
- Maybe a problem esp. in combination with the MacBook?
- TB3 bottleneck? (but hard to imagine)

This post was modified 5 months ago

MacBook Pro 15" Late-2016 w/TB 16GB with RP460 4GB
automate-eGPU EFI 1.0.5 USB w/DSDT override
 macOS Catalina 10.15 dev beta 3 w/Win10 (1903) BootCamp
Sonnet Breakaway Box 650 TB3 /wAMD Sapphire Radeon VII 16GB
 Alphacool Eiswolf 240 GPX-Pro AiO Radeon VII M02 Water Cooling


ReplyQuote
jerry Kansai
(@joi_kansai)
Estimable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 
Posted by: OliverB

Metro Exodus 1440p Ultra

Radeon VII GTX 1080 Ti

MetroExodus 1440pUltra RVII

MetroExodus 1440pUltra GTX1080Ti

 

No surprise that the Wattman profile is perfect here: (except for the fans... sound like a vacuum cleaner, argh)

Metro Exodus Wattmann

So essentially it's: Kick all games that have this stuttering, because they are badly programmed.. This may be true for Resident Evil 6 and Deus Ex- Mankind Divided, but the Tomb Raider Sequels?! Why those?

Damn that result!? Yes even Benchmark is more demanding on this title then actual gameplay but, it knocks out my 2080 by around 11fps on same ultra 1440p.

B1BC2A93 9E68 47E1 AD9E 6E6DA211B722
This post was modified 5 months ago

Razer Blade 15 2018, i7 8750H 16gb ddr4 2666mhz 1tb 970Evo
Razer Blade Stealth 12,5 2016 i7 7500U 8gb ddr3 1866mhz 500gb 970Evo
MacBook Pro 13 mid 2012 i5 3210M 12gb ddr3 1600mhz 500GB HDD
Razer Core V2 rtx 2070 Black 2040mhz Boost clock
Previous setting: rtx 2080ti Asus Turbo, rtx 2080 xc gaming, rtx 2080 Fe, Zotac Mini 1080ti, Evga 1080 FTW2 gaming.
Dual Monitor Predator XB241YU 165Hz 1440p, LG l24UD58 60Hz 4K
Portable Monitor Magedok 1440p HDR 60Hz usbA/C monitor


ReplyQuote
jerry Kansai
(@joi_kansai)
Estimable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 
Posted by: OliverB

About the Razer Core X: I had it once, still a fine build quality, but huge and some noise. I have the feeling it's less loud than it used to be. Is this possible?

Is Radeon vii semi passive cooling, the fan stop on some low temperature point? Sorry if it’s mentioned before. Idk about core x but louder PSU on core V2 now quiter after using such gpu (Evga xc 2080, 2070 Black), with blower turbo 2080ti was definitely way louder, both gaming and idle.

Razer Blade 15 2018, i7 8750H 16gb ddr4 2666mhz 1tb 970Evo
Razer Blade Stealth 12,5 2016 i7 7500U 8gb ddr3 1866mhz 500gb 970Evo
MacBook Pro 13 mid 2012 i5 3210M 12gb ddr3 1600mhz 500GB HDD
Razer Core V2 rtx 2070 Black 2040mhz Boost clock
Previous setting: rtx 2080ti Asus Turbo, rtx 2080 xc gaming, rtx 2080 Fe, Zotac Mini 1080ti, Evga 1080 FTW2 gaming.
Dual Monitor Predator XB241YU 165Hz 1440p, LG l24UD58 60Hz 4K
Portable Monitor Magedok 1440p HDR 60Hz usbA/C monitor


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: Roedi78

@oliverb I checked with my system the RE6 benchmark.
I got 7557 points in 1440p and (nearly the same result !!!) 7521 points in 2160p, all with maximum graphics settings.

@Roedi78, thanks for doing the test. It was really giving new information.

Conclusions:
- Same score in 1440p and 2160p? 😕 Hard to believe that the GPU is the problem here...
- Maybe CPU is the bottleneck in this case, GPU was bored..
- Drivers not well optimized for older games?! 
- AMD drivers not optimized for that engine at all (benchmark starts with nvidia logo 😎 )...
- Benchmark is from 2012 (DirextX 9.0c), so I don't mind that the card is such a fail in that particular case...
- Maybe a problem esp. in combination with the MacBook?
- TB3 bottleneck? (but hard to imagine)

It's not a TB3 bottleneck and not a problem with the hardware (enclosure, macbookpro) because this is what a GTX1080Ti yields in this particular benchmark at 1440p: 18124

ResidentEvil6 GTX 1440p

Furthermore, a RX570 performs better than the RadeonVII (else same hardware, same system), so it's nothing with AMD in general.

Posted by: Joikansai

Damn that result!? Yes even Benchmark is more demanding on this title then actual gameplay but, it knocks out my 2080 by around 11fps on same ultra 1440p.

@Joikansai, yes, it's the first really convincing gaming benchmark of the Radeon VII. The other good result was Far Cry 5, but knocking out a GTX1080Ti.

This post was modified 5 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: itsage

@oliverb I've been busy with other projects but got time today. To eliminate potential overheating and insufficient power, I installed the Radeon VII into the Mantiz Venus.

@itsage, this was not necessary. The issues I am having with the Radeon card do not come from power issues or overheating in Asus XG Station Pro. Razer Core X behaves identical, if not worse concerning overheating.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
Roedi78
(@roedi78)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 

@oliverb I also checked DXMD benchmark as you did, nearly the same result like yours (you have 2-3 FPS more, but you use a MBP 2018...)  😉 

DeusEx: Mankind Devided @ 1440p Ultra --> 28,6 FPS avg
DeusEx: Mankind Devided @ 2160p Ultra --> 28,4 FPS avg

Crazy thing, same FPS... 😐 
Situation is comparable to RE6 benchmark, at 1440p the Radeon VII fans were really quiet, at 4k hearable.
Should be indeed a software/driver/engine optimization problem...?! DXMD is not as old as RE6... that's really disturbing... 

IMG 5455

Here you can see my Wattman chart, both runs successively (first half 1440p, second is at 2160p). 

 

This post was modified 5 months ago

MacBook Pro 15" Late-2016 w/TB 16GB with RP460 4GB
automate-eGPU EFI 1.0.5 USB w/DSDT override
 macOS Catalina 10.15 dev beta 3 w/Win10 (1903) BootCamp
Sonnet Breakaway Box 650 TB3 /wAMD Sapphire Radeon VII 16GB
 Alphacool Eiswolf 240 GPX-Pro AiO Radeon VII M02 Water Cooling


OliverB liked
ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: Roedi78

@oliverb I also checked DXMD benchmark as you did, nearly the same result like yours (you have 2-3 FPS more, but you use a MBP 2018...)  😉 

@Roedi78, great post and research. I did some, too. First of all, I want to "relieve" you from worry, because I really think that you Radeon VII (as mine) is not defective. There are several reasons what lead to this horrible performance.

DeusEx: Mankind Devided @ 1440p Ultra --> 28,6 FPS avg
DeusEx: Mankind Devided @ 2160p Ultra --> 28,4 FPS avg

Crazy thing, same FPS... 😐 

Yes, it's good you checked it, because this is a clear sign (if not a prove), that 
1. DeusEX: Mankind Divided is a TB3-Enemy.
Some games perform horribly in eGPU setups and this is one of them. The best evidence for this is when FPS doesn't change with resolution.

Further a DeusEx particular issue:
2. DeusEX performs horribly with AntiAliasing
(that is a general problem of the game), so all those good FPS Benchmark, they switched off AA. They don't tell that in the first sentence, to make their benchmark look better. MSAA is beyond sense there, even if it is offered for 2x, 4x, 8. Don't use it, it won't make a difference for high resolutions anyway. For some reason the frame drop is worse with the Radeon VII than with the GTX1080Ti. If I switch off AA, the FPS of both cards are much more alike.

Situation is comparable to RE6 benchmark, at 1440p the Radeon VII fans were really quiet, at 4k hearable.

Yes, and I got a similar observation, too with another game and a similar zigzag chart (Ashes of the Singularity) and hardly fan activity until I changed the settings from "high" to "crazy" (!). Your wattman displays a better curve with 2160p compared to 1440p which says essentially the same thing. So this is evidence, that the fans keep quiet/there is a zigzac wattman because:

3. Radeon VII doesn't get enough to do

So what are the reasons for this? As you never hear about it in Desktop Benchmarks, I guess that this happens mostly in eGPU setups where the Radeon VII is hardly tested. It may be combination of TB3-Limit, style of programming, quality of programming.

I will soon make a build guide with to extra large section for workload-benchmarking and gaming-benchmarking and tell more about this.

This post was modified 5 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
Roedi78
(@roedi78)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
 

@oliverb Great analysis! Thumbs up!

MacBook Pro 15" Late-2016 w/TB 16GB with RP460 4GB
automate-eGPU EFI 1.0.5 USB w/DSDT override
 macOS Catalina 10.15 dev beta 3 w/Win10 (1903) BootCamp
Sonnet Breakaway Box 650 TB3 /wAMD Sapphire Radeon VII 16GB
 Alphacool Eiswolf 240 GPX-Pro AiO Radeon VII M02 Water Cooling


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: Joikansai
Posted by: OliverB

Note: Performance is ok, but it's clearly still not an GTX1080Ti in synthetic benchmarks and probably most games. In AMD optimized games and computing this will be a different story.

I’ve to say this is wrong, maybe in 1080p but on higher resolution it is similar even better in some games, note extra vram take advantage on this as well. And from pure gpu benchmarks superposition it’s better or similar with my 2080 egpu results, amd brings this card to compare 2080, like Vega64 to Gtx 1080 before.

I have to say, after thorough analysis with 2 macbooks, 2 enclosures and 2 Os and 3 cards, that such video is not valid for eGPU setup. ARadeon VII performs in a eGPU setup clearly inferior to (my?) GTX 1080 Ti.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: Joikansai
Posted by: OliverB

Metro Exodus 1440p Ultra

Radeon VII GTX 1080 Ti

MetroExodus 1440pUltra RVII

MetroExodus 1440pUltra GTX1080Ti

 

No surprise that the Wattman profile is perfect here: (except for the fans... sound like a vacuum cleaner, argh)

Metro Exodus Wattmann

So essentially it's: Kick all games that have this stuttering, because they are badly programmed.. This may be true for Resident Evil 6 and Deus Ex- Mankind Divided, but the Tomb Raider Sequels?! Why those?

Damn that result!? Yes even Benchmark is more demanding on this title then actual gameplay but, it knocks out my 2080 by around 11fps on same ultra 1440p.

B1BC2A93 9E68 47E1 AD9E 6E6DA211B722

Please note, that the GTX1080Ti Screenshot is Preset "Extreme", here is the correct Screenshot for Preset "Ultra":

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

I have a nice one here. 100.000 point mark has been taken.

LuxMarkBallWin

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
alex_ai
(@alex_ai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
 

Tested Radeon VII with Akitio Node (400W PSU). It works pretty stable on GPU benchmarks and computing loads.
But yesterday tried to play in Resident Evil 2 (4k display, HDR, ultra settings) - Power supply shut down in 30 seconds during intro :(. Reproduced it several times. Then attached power from PC (700W) and played about hour.
Confirmed : 400W not enough for this GPU on full load

Mac mini 2018 Radeon VII Akitio Node


ReplyQuote
OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 
Posted by: alex_ai

Tested Radeon VII with Akitio Node (400W PSU). It works pretty stable on GPU benchmarks and computing loads.
But yesterday tried to play in Resident Evil 2 (4k display, HDR, ultra settings) - Power supply shut down in 30 seconds during intro :(. Reproduced it several times. Then attached power from PC (700W) and played about hour.
Confirmed : 400W not enough for this GPU on full load

This is not correct. I can use it with a 300W enclosure (Asus XG Station Pro) and even after long and heavy loads there haven't been any issue.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


ReplyQuote
alex_ai
(@alex_ai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
 

Probably you are right. I used it 2+ weeks without any issues till yesterday. Also maybe it related to quality of power supply. Anyway I can't use current configuration for Resident Evil 2 (tested on 3 games) .

Mac mini 2018 Radeon VII Akitio Node


OliverB liked
ReplyQuote
alex_ai
(@alex_ai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago

ReplyQuote
alex_ai
(@alex_ai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
 

Tested one more time with hardware monitor. Maximum value was 288W(average 150-230). During one hour were 2 shut downs : at 175W and 190W. So it is related only to Akitio Node PSU, probably overheating or something like that

Mac mini 2018 Radeon VII Akitio Node


ReplyQuote
 of  2