Thunderbolt 3 AMD Ryzen 5 2400G + GTX [email protected] (AORUS Gaming Box) + Win10 1803 [theitsage]  

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theitsage
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October 11, 2018 3:35 am  

This build is a follow-up to my previous Thunderbolt 3 on AMD Threadripper 1950x build. I put together a Ryzen 5 2400G system using the Inwin Chopin ITX case. The miniature profile (3.3 liters) added more challenges to mounting the Gigabyte GC-Titan-Ridge AIC but it was a lot of fun. The great news is Thunderbolt 3 is seemingly ready for AMD systems. The ball is in Intel's court.

 

System specs:

Chopin Ryzen 5 2400G/RX Vega 11 iGPU/8GB RAM/250GB SSD/GC-Titan-Ridge AIC

 

eGPU hardware:

AORUS Gaming Box + Nvidia GTX 1080 + .5m Thunderbolt 3 cable

 

Hardware pictures:

 

Installation steps:

Same with the Threadripper system, there was no hacking or modding BIOS settings. I learned from @karatekid430 jumping pin 3 and 5 can keep the GC-Titan-Ridge AIC awake at boot. This way the system can hot-detect Thunderbolt devices in Windows. It's not fully functional as hot-plug though. I need to warm boot for the eGPU to start working. The crucial piece of software is Intel Thunderbolt Software. I installed version [17.4.77.400] from Gigabyte support website.

The most time consuming task was to mount the AIC. There's absolutely no room for any PCI cards in the front of the InWin Chopin case. I used a PCI extender. I cut open the metal divider then routed this extender through the rear. The components are held in place with electrical tape. The side panel once installed provides additional reinforcement to keep the AIC in place.

Intel Thunderbolt Software showed this Ryzen 5 2400G system has support for External GPUs. I manually installed the latest Nvidia Drivers and the AORUS 1080 Gaming Box started working right away.

 

Benchmarks:

There are stability issues atm. I was not able to run any benchmarks except for AIDA64. I'm guessing there's a kink or loose connection in the current arrangement. An x4 PCI extender would be better in this case.

 

Comments:

I hope Intel will certify Thunderbolt 3 on AMD systems soon. The GC-Titan-Ridge AIC has proven the hardware and software pieces are in place. The more Thunderbolt 3 computers and devices come to market, the less costly this technology becomes.

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theitsage
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October 12, 2018 1:07 pm  

I checked over the PCI extender and AIC connection last night. All was good. The culprit was driver incompatibility. This Ryzen 5 2400G system could run without a hitch when paired with RX 580 Gaming Box.

The RX Vega 11 behaved more like a discrete graphics card than an integrated one. In order to emulate eGPU internal display mode, I had to open Graphics Setting in Win10 1803 and set each application to use to the High Performance GPU. The monitor was connected through the ASRock motherboard's HDMI port. I was curious so I tested the reverse situation where the monitor connected to the RX 580 eGPU's HDMI port but the application was set to use RX Vega 11. The system actually used the RX Vega 11 in this iGPU external monitor mode. Here are Unigine benchmarks.

RX Vega 11 iGPU RX 580 eGPU Internal RX 580 eGPU External

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Yukikaze
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October 12, 2018 7:59 pm  

This is brilliant stuff. Looks like Titan Ridge really is a plug-and-play TB3-anywhere solution.

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esatamacmodular
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October 13, 2018 2:37 am  
Posted by: Yukikaze

This is brilliant stuff. Looks like Titan Ridge really is a plug-and-play TB3-anywhere solution.

Agree it's exciting work by theitsage ! But what do you mean by this being a plug and play TB3 anywhere solution? I can't throw it in my z170x setup, right? I though this post was suggesting a Titan Ridge AIC and specific titan ridge AIC compatible motherboard might work in the future with AMD processors. Intel could officially add support because components are recognized.

iMac 2013 10.14.1, Macbook Air 2013 10.11, MBP 2016 13" 10.13.6 , HP 4530s 10.11, node lite, DA-2 PSU w/mod, PE4L 2.1b expresscard34, GTX460,1050Ti,1060,1070/Ti RX470,560,580


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ICULikeMac
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October 29, 2018 11:37 pm  

Awesome post, thank you!

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karatekid430
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November 8, 2018 2:43 am  

I only just saw this completed build. I am glad I could have helped with the jumper.

Yikes, that is one crazy solution to fit the add-in card.

Can both the Thunderbolt 3 ports be accessed? Or is only one drilled through?

This is pretty cool, especially that it is AMD. What I wanted to see from Intel NUCs was for them to be able to be powered from Thunderbolt ports, in which case we could discard the power pack and power them at 100W from the Aorus eGPU. In theory you could find a way to fit the NUC motherboard inside of the eGPU. If you use R9 Nano, there is space above and behind the GPU. Not quite enough, but you could mod the Aorus case to allow the motherboard to protrude a little. That would make the Aorus eGPU its own computer with USB ports and the Thunderbolt cable at the back. Then the NUC inside could be powered down and the Thunderbolt cable attached to a laptop. Which would make it very versatile.

I am hoping that eventually the makers of eGPUs will start to make the mounting holes compatible with ATX cases, so that modders can take the PCB out of them and place it in any standard PC case.

On a tangent:

I hope that one day Thunderbolt can allow a laptop to borrow the GPU of a desktop (access in the same way that a virtual machine would access graphics). I believe that theoretically, Thunderbolt can do that - but it will require firmware changes and improvements to make sure all consumer / mainstream platforms have their IOMMU and SR-IOV (or potentially even MR-IOV) working.

I am different to other people in that I will take absolutely any opportunity to use the same hardware I own in other ways. Many people will say "gimmick" or "nobody really wants that" but if everything is there to enable something, and it is not enabled, it frustrates me. I believe that PCIe and DisplayPort should be fused - the benefit is that every computer can then be a high performance capture device without any additional hardware, and that any laptop will be able to be used as a portable monitor. There are dozens of cool things that would benefit people, that nobody has really contemplated. People might say it is a gimmick. But if you actually deliver it, they might start to try it and go "well actually, this is useful".

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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karatekid430
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November 8, 2018 3:23 am  

Oh, just a head's up - when going from 2015 controllers to non-2015 controllers, passive Thunderbolt cables result in a performance hit. The Aorus Gaming Box uses the 2015 DSL6540 Thunderbolt controller. I would do a bandwidth test. For Nvidia, CUDA-Z. For AMD, BufferBandwidth.exe which comes pre-compiled in the AMD APP SDK 3.0.

I could only ever get 1800MB/s to my eGPU, and assumed I had a PCH bottleneck. But it turns out that the instant I got my 2M Active cable, it hits 2750MB/s every time.

The same has been observed by me with HP Z-docks and the Sonnet 550 eGPU, which also use the 2015 DSL6540 controller.

Two 2015 devices can use the passive cable in between them without any performance hit.

I have tried many cables - one 30cm and about three 50cm. It is not caused by a faulty cable - they are all passive, and are all affected.

I do not know if you can get active 50cm cables - but I do know that 1M ones exist.

Please let me know the result. Cheers!

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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tsakal
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November 27, 2018 11:30 pm  

@karatekid430

I tried a caldigit cable
( https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01N4MFG7J/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
with my mbp 13 2918 and the gaming box rx580 and it just doesn't work. The connection goes on stays on for 2 min and goes off. Then i wait for 20 sec and it goes on again. After 2-3 time i disconnect it. I tried all ports with and without the power adapter, but with no luck. 
What is the apple 0.8m cable active or passive. It came out in Dec 2017

A. 2.7 GHz I7 4 Cores, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2018 TB3 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb

B. 3.1 GHz I7, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2015 TB2 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb


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ed_co
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November 27, 2018 11:41 pm  

@itsage @karatekid430
Super interesting and exciting!!
Is this finally working as CPU or PCH? It is having the whole bandwidth?
So, just for my understanding, this titan ridge card works on ANY motherboard?? No need for the typical TB3 header connector in the motherboard to the card?? (What is the meaning of the header, then??).
I was thinking to try it out with an Asrock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard. It could be a safe bet? I do have a hackintosh/NAS...

Thanks.

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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ed_co
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November 29, 2018 1:11 pm  

@itsage @karatekid430
Is this finally working as CPU or PCH? It is having the whole bandwidth?
So, just for my understanding, this titan ridge card works on ANY motherboard?? No need for the typical TB3 header connector in the motherboard to the card?? (What is the meaning of the header, then??).
I was thinking to try it out with an Asrock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard.

Thanks.

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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theitsage
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November 29, 2018 1:31 pm  

@ed_co It's a CPU connection in this build. It's the same on my X399 Threadripper build. From the reports of people attempted adding this Titan Ridge AIC on non-supported systems, they are actually working more predictable than supposedly supported Intel systems. A few people even got the card to work in the old Mac Pro tower.

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joevt
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November 29, 2018 1:34 pm  
Posted by: ed_co

@itsage @karatekid430
Is this finally working as CPU or PCH? It is having the whole bandwidth?
So, just for my understanding, this titan ridge card works on ANY motherboard?? No need for the typical TB3 header connector in the motherboard to the card?? (What is the meaning of the header, then??).
I was thinking to try it out with an Asrock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard.

It can work as CPU or PCH depending on the motherboard.
It has the whole bandwidth if the slot supports PCIe 3.0 x4.
It can work without the TB3 header. The TB3 header is for force-power, hot-plug, and sleep state. Force power is not required if the drivers can detect when a device is connected and can properly enumerate and enable the usb controller of the thunderbolt controller. Hot-plug and sleep might work without the header if the firmware and drivers allow it. In my old 2008 Mac Pro where there is no thunderbolt firmware, Windows can detect when Thunderbolt devices are connected but can't enumerate them and allocate resources for them if resources weren't previously reserved. In that case a restart with the Thunderbolt devices connected is required to actually use the Thunderbolt devices.

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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ed_co
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November 29, 2018 1:54 pm  

Thanks both for the reply.
@joevt it is a 16x slot, I guess it would support it at x4? How can I know for sure?
How can I know if would be CPU or PCH?
Is there something in the manual that I could take a look to know? Have you seen my motherboard? 
Thanks

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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joevt
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November 29, 2018 2:03 pm  
Posted by: ed_co

@joevt it is a 16x slot, I guess it would support it at x4? How can I know for sure?
How can I know if would be CPU or PCH?
Is there something in the manual that I could take a look to know? Have you seen my motherboard? 

Yes, an x4 card in an x16 slot would have an x4 link. An x16 card in an x4 slot also would have an x4 link.

ITX motherboards usually only have one PCIe slot which is usually used with a graphics card and is connected to CPU. An M.2 slot is usually connected to PCH.

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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ed_co
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November 29, 2018 2:16 pm  

So it could be a safe bet if i get the card in order to work with my board? Will it be OOTB?

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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theitsage
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November 29, 2018 2:31 pm  

@ed_co You will have to try it out. All of us came in expecting the worst because our systems are non-certified Thunderbolt 3 configurations. It won't be OOTB-easy but the likelihood it will work is high.

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karatekid430
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November 29, 2018 2:33 pm  
Posted by: ed_co

So it could be a safe bet if i get the card in order to work with my board? Will it be OOTB?

The only slot I have not been able to get it to work with is the second CPU slot that steals x8 from the first slot when populated. It must be something to do with the bifurcation.

It will sort of work, but don't expect it to work perfectly. With a lot of technical knowledge and a kernel mod, it can work well with Linux. With Windows, hotplug will not work - you will have to reboot to add devices. Shorting the header out helps, but does not make it perfect.

If you aren't the type of person who likes tinkering or requires it to "just work" then buy the Gigabyte Z390 motherboard with inbuilt Titan Ridge, or a board that officially supports this add-in card.

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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ed_co
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November 29, 2018 3:06 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

@ed_co You will have to try it out. All of us came in expecting the worst because our systems are non-certified Thunderbolt 3 configurations. It won't be OOTB-easy but the likelihood it will work is high.

When you say it is not OOTB easy is beacuse of the way Windows is handling it, right? I mean, in macOS will be like OOTB... I guess... remember that is a hackintosh...

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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ed_co
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November 29, 2018 4:13 pm  
Posted by: karatekid430
Posted by: ed_co

So it could be a safe bet if i get the card in order to work with my board? Will it be OOTB?

The only slot I have not been able to get it to work with is the second CPU slot that steals x8 from the first slot when populated. It must be something to do with the bifurcation.

It will sort of work, but don't expect it to work perfectly. With a lot of technical knowledge and a kernel mod, it can work well with Linux. With Windows, hotplug will not work - you will have to reboot to add devices. Shorting the header out helps, but does not make it perfect.

If you aren't the type of person who likes tinkering or requires it to "just work" then buy the Gigabyte Z390 motherboard with inbuilt Titan Ridge, or a board that officially supports this add-in card.

Of course I am the kind of person who doesn't mind to tinker to make it work ;), I have eGPU since a while and I have hackintosh since long time ago. I was just wondering how to proceed, and if worth it.
I mean, I have a macbook pro 15 2017 with mantiz + 1080 ti, and I have a server/nas with macOS, and wouldn't mind to use the eGPU in both of them... if could be... That's why I asked.
But I don't want to, if could be really problematic...
Don't understand why it is not supported in any motherboard, as it doesn't sound it is really complicated to do it, which just a 5 pin connector... it is nuts...

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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