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Thunderbolt 3 AMD Ryzen 5 2400G + GTX [email protected] (AORUS Gaming Box) + Win10 1803 [theitsage]  

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theitsage
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Oct 11, 2018 3:35 am  

This build is a follow-up to my previous Thunderbolt 3 on AMD Threadripper 1950x build. I put together a Ryzen 5 2400G system using the Inwin Chopin ITX case. The miniature profile (3.3 liters) added more challenges to mounting the Gigabyte GC-Titan-Ridge AIC but it was a lot of fun. The great news is Thunderbolt 3 is seemingly ready for AMD systems. The ball is in Intel's court.

 

System specs:

Chopin Ryzen 5 2400G/RX Vega 11 iGPU/8GB RAM/250GB SSD/GC-Titan-Ridge AIC

 

eGPU hardware:

AORUS Gaming Box + Nvidia GTX 1080 + .5m Thunderbolt 3 cable

 

Hardware pictures:

 

Installation steps:

Same with the Threadripper system, there was no hacking or modding BIOS settings. I learned from @karatekid430 jumping pin 3 and 5 can keep the GC-Titan-Ridge AIC awake at boot. This way the system can hot-detect Thunderbolt devices in Windows. It's not fully functional as hot-plug though. I need to warm boot for the eGPU to start working. The crucial piece of software is Intel Thunderbolt Software. I installed version [17.4.77.400] from Gigabyte support website.

The most time consuming task was to mount the AIC. There's absolutely no room for any PCI cards in the front of the InWin Chopin case. I used a PCI extender. I cut open the metal divider then routed this extender through the rear. The components are held in place with electrical tape. The side panel once installed provides additional reinforcement to keep the AIC in place.

Intel Thunderbolt Software showed this Ryzen 5 2400G system has support for External GPUs. I manually installed the latest Nvidia Drivers and the AORUS 1080 Gaming Box started working right away.

 

Benchmarks:

There are stability issues atm. I was not able to run any benchmarks except for AIDA64. I'm guessing there's a kink or loose connection in the current arrangement. An x4 PCI extender would be better in this case.

 

Comments:

I hope Intel will certify Thunderbolt 3 on AMD systems soon. The GC-Titan-Ridge AIC has proven the hardware and software pieces are in place. The more Thunderbolt 3 computers and devices come to market, the less costly this technology becomes.

This topic was modified 8 months ago

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theitsage
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Oct 12, 2018 1:07 pm  

I checked over the PCI extender and AIC connection last night. All was good. The culprit was driver incompatibility. This Ryzen 5 2400G system could run without a hitch when paired with RX 580 Gaming Box.

The RX Vega 11 behaved more like a discrete graphics card than an integrated one. In order to emulate eGPU internal display mode, I had to open Graphics Setting in Win10 1803 and set each application to use to the High Performance GPU. The monitor was connected through the ASRock motherboard's HDMI port. I was curious so I tested the reverse situation where the monitor connected to the RX 580 eGPU's HDMI port but the application was set to use RX Vega 11. The system actually used the RX Vega 11 in this iGPU external monitor mode. Here are Unigine benchmarks.

RX Vega 11 iGPU RX 580 eGPU Internal RX 580 eGPU External
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Yukikaze
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Oct 12, 2018 7:59 pm  

This is brilliant stuff. Looks like Titan Ridge really is a plug-and-play TB3-anywhere solution.

My eGPU Zoo - Link to my Implementations.
Want to output [email protected] out of an old system on the cheap? Read here.
Give your Node Pro a second Thunderbolt3 controller for reliable peripherals by re-using a TB3 dock (~50$).

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esatamacmodular
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Oct 13, 2018 2:37 am  
Posted by: Yukikaze

This is brilliant stuff. Looks like Titan Ridge really is a plug-and-play TB3-anywhere solution.

Agree it's exciting work by theitsage ! But what do you mean by this being a plug and play TB3 anywhere solution? I can't throw it in my z170x setup, right? I though this post was suggesting a Titan Ridge AIC and specific titan ridge AIC compatible motherboard might work in the future with AMD processors. Intel could officially add support because components are recognized.

This post was modified 8 months ago

iMac 2013 10.14.1, Macbook Air 2013 10.11, MBP 2016 13" 10.13.6 , HP 4530s 10.11, node lite, DA-2 PSU w/mod, PE4L 2.1b expresscard34, GTX460,1050Ti,1060,1070/Ti RX470,560,580


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ICULikeMac
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Oct 29, 2018 11:37 pm  

Awesome post, thank you!

2019 13" MacBook Pro (i7 & 16GB RAM) - MacOS + Win10
Late 2012 Mac Mini - MacOS + Win10
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karatekid430
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Nov 8, 2018 2:43 am  

I only just saw this completed build. I am glad I could have helped with the jumper.

Yikes, that is one crazy solution to fit the add-in card.

Can both the Thunderbolt 3 ports be accessed? Or is only one drilled through?

This is pretty cool, especially that it is AMD. What I wanted to see from Intel NUCs was for them to be able to be powered from Thunderbolt ports, in which case we could discard the power pack and power them at 100W from the Aorus eGPU. In theory you could find a way to fit the NUC motherboard inside of the eGPU. If you use R9 Nano, there is space above and behind the GPU. Not quite enough, but you could mod the Aorus case to allow the motherboard to protrude a little. That would make the Aorus eGPU its own computer with USB ports and the Thunderbolt cable at the back. Then the NUC inside could be powered down and the Thunderbolt cable attached to a laptop. Which would make it very versatile.

I am hoping that eventually the makers of eGPUs will start to make the mounting holes compatible with ATX cases, so that modders can take the PCB out of them and place it in any standard PC case.

On a tangent:

I hope that one day Thunderbolt can allow a laptop to borrow the GPU of a desktop (access in the same way that a virtual machine would access graphics). I believe that theoretically, Thunderbolt can do that - but it will require firmware changes and improvements to make sure all consumer / mainstream platforms have their IOMMU and SR-IOV (or potentially even MR-IOV) working.

I am different to other people in that I will take absolutely any opportunity to use the same hardware I own in other ways. Many people will say "gimmick" or "nobody really wants that" but if everything is there to enable something, and it is not enabled, it frustrates me. I believe that PCIe and DisplayPort should be fused - the benefit is that every computer can then be a high performance capture device without any additional hardware, and that any laptop will be able to be used as a portable monitor. There are dozens of cool things that would benefit people, that nobody has really contemplated. People might say it is a gimmick. But if you actually deliver it, they might start to try it and go "well actually, this is useful".

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karatekid430
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Nov 8, 2018 3:23 am  

Oh, just a head's up - when going from 2015 controllers to non-2015 controllers, passive Thunderbolt cables result in a performance hit. The Aorus Gaming Box uses the 2015 DSL6540 Thunderbolt controller. I would do a bandwidth test. For Nvidia, CUDA-Z. For AMD, BufferBandwidth.exe which comes pre-compiled in the AMD APP SDK 3.0.

I could only ever get 1800MB/s to my eGPU, and assumed I had a PCH bottleneck. But it turns out that the instant I got my 2M Active cable, it hits 2750MB/s every time.

The same has been observed by me with HP Z-docks and the Sonnet 550 eGPU, which also use the 2015 DSL6540 controller.

Two 2015 devices can use the passive cable in between them without any performance hit.

I have tried many cables - one 30cm and about three 50cm. It is not caused by a faulty cable - they are all passive, and are all affected.

I do not know if you can get active 50cm cables - but I do know that 1M ones exist.

Please let me know the result. Cheers!

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tsakal
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Nov 27, 2018 11:30 pm  

@karatekid430

I tried a caldigit cable
( https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01N4MFG7J/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
with my mbp 13 2918 and the gaming box rx580 and it just doesn't work. The connection goes on stays on for 2 min and goes off. Then i wait for 20 sec and it goes on again. After 2-3 time i disconnect it. I tried all ports with and without the power adapter, but with no luck. 
What is the apple 0.8m cable active or passive. It came out in Dec 2017

A. 2.7 GHz I7 4 Cores, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2018 TB3 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb

B. 3.1 GHz I7, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2015 TB2 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb


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ed_co
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Nov 29, 2018 1:11 pm  

@itsage @karatekid430
Is this finally working as CPU or PCH? It is having the whole bandwidth?
So, just for my understanding, this titan ridge card works on ANY motherboard?? No need for the typical TB3 header connector in the motherboard to the card?? (What is the meaning of the header, then??).
I was thinking to try it out with an Asrock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard.

Thanks.

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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theitsage
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Nov 29, 2018 1:31 pm  

@ed_co It's a CPU connection in this build. It's the same on my X399 Threadripper build. From the reports of people attempted adding this Titan Ridge AIC on non-supported systems, they are actually working more predictable than supposedly supported Intel systems. A few people even got the card to work in the old Mac Pro tower.

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joevt
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Nov 29, 2018 1:34 pm  
Posted by: ed_co

@itsage @karatekid430
Is this finally working as CPU or PCH? It is having the whole bandwidth?
So, just for my understanding, this titan ridge card works on ANY motherboard?? No need for the typical TB3 header connector in the motherboard to the card?? (What is the meaning of the header, then??).
I was thinking to try it out with an Asrock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard.

It can work as CPU or PCH depending on the motherboard.
It has the whole bandwidth if the slot supports PCIe 3.0 x4.
It can work without the TB3 header. The TB3 header is for force-power, hot-plug, and sleep state. Force power is not required if the drivers can detect when a device is connected and can properly enumerate and enable the usb controller of the thunderbolt controller. Hot-plug and sleep might work without the header if the firmware and drivers allow it. In my old 2008 Mac Pro where there is no thunderbolt firmware, Windows can detect when Thunderbolt devices are connected but can't enumerate them and allocate resources for them if resources weren't previously reserved. In that case a restart with the Thunderbolt devices connected is required to actually use the Thunderbolt devices.

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ed_co
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Nov 29, 2018 1:54 pm  

Thanks both for the reply.
@joevt it is a 16x slot, I guess it would support it at x4? How can I know for sure?
How can I know if would be CPU or PCH?
Is there something in the manual that I could take a look to know? Have you seen my motherboard? 
Thanks

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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joevt
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Nov 29, 2018 2:03 pm  
Posted by: ed_co

@joevt it is a 16x slot, I guess it would support it at x4? How can I know for sure?
How can I know if would be CPU or PCH?
Is there something in the manual that I could take a look to know? Have you seen my motherboard? 

Yes, an x4 card in an x16 slot would have an x4 link. An x16 card in an x4 slot also would have an x4 link.

ITX motherboards usually only have one PCIe slot which is usually used with a graphics card and is connected to CPU. An M.2 slot is usually connected to PCH.

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ed_co
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Nov 29, 2018 2:16 pm  

So it could be a safe bet if i get the card in order to work with my board? Will it be OOTB?

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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theitsage
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Nov 29, 2018 2:31 pm  

@ed_co You will have to try it out. All of us came in expecting the worst because our systems are non-certified Thunderbolt 3 configurations. It won't be OOTB-easy but the likelihood it will work is high.

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karatekid430
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Nov 29, 2018 2:33 pm  
Posted by: ed_co

So it could be a safe bet if i get the card in order to work with my board? Will it be OOTB?

The only slot I have not been able to get it to work with is the second CPU slot that steals x8 from the first slot when populated. It must be something to do with the bifurcation.

It will sort of work, but don't expect it to work perfectly. With a lot of technical knowledge and a kernel mod, it can work well with Linux. With Windows, hotplug will not work - you will have to reboot to add devices. Shorting the header out helps, but does not make it perfect.

If you aren't the type of person who likes tinkering or requires it to "just work" then buy the Gigabyte Z390 motherboard with inbuilt Titan Ridge, or a board that officially supports this add-in card.

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ed_co
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Nov 29, 2018 3:06 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

@ed_co You will have to try it out. All of us came in expecting the worst because our systems are non-certified Thunderbolt 3 configurations. It won't be OOTB-easy but the likelihood it will work is high.

When you say it is not OOTB easy is beacuse of the way Windows is handling it, right? I mean, in macOS will be like OOTB... I guess... remember that is a hackintosh...

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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ed_co
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Nov 29, 2018 4:13 pm  
Posted by: karatekid430
Posted by: ed_co

So it could be a safe bet if i get the card in order to work with my board? Will it be OOTB?

The only slot I have not been able to get it to work with is the second CPU slot that steals x8 from the first slot when populated. It must be something to do with the bifurcation.

It will sort of work, but don't expect it to work perfectly. With a lot of technical knowledge and a kernel mod, it can work well with Linux. With Windows, hotplug will not work - you will have to reboot to add devices. Shorting the header out helps, but does not make it perfect.

If you aren't the type of person who likes tinkering or requires it to "just work" then buy the Gigabyte Z390 motherboard with inbuilt Titan Ridge, or a board that officially supports this add-in card.

Of course I am the kind of person who doesn't mind to tinker to make it work ;), I have eGPU since a while and I have hackintosh since long time ago. I was just wondering how to proceed, and if worth it.
I mean, I have a macbook pro 15 2017 with mantiz + 1080 ti, and I have a server/nas with macOS, and wouldn't mind to use the eGPU in both of them... if could be... That's why I asked.
But I don't want to, if could be really problematic...
Don't understand why it is not supported in any motherboard, as it doesn't sound it is really complicated to do it, which just a 5 pin connector... it is nuts...

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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(@deny_winarto)
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Mar 9, 2019 11:39 pm  

Thanks for sharing this @itsage! This is what i've been looking for, its ideal for swapping
egpu between desktop and laptop easily, while keeping the desktop size minimum.

I'm attempting to do the same with z390 based cpu that wont bottleneck my mini rtx 2060, possibly i5-9400 or higher, so i was wondering which z390 mini-itx board could work with your setup? I'm thinking asrock z390 phantom gaming itx.. would it work?
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theitsage
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May 4, 2019 12:35 pm  
Posted by: Deny Winarto

Thanks for sharing this @itsage! This is what i've been looking for, its ideal for swapping
egpu between desktop and laptop easily, while keeping the desktop size minimum.

I'm attempting to do the same with z390 based cpu that wont bottleneck my mini rtx 2060, possibly i5-9400 or higher, so i was wondering which z390 mini-itx board could work with your setup? I'm thinking asrock z390 phantom gaming itx.. would it work?

The ASRock Z390 Phantom ITX has an onboard Thunderbolt 3 controller and one TB3 port. It is through a x2 PCIe connection however. I'm keeping an eye out for new motherboards with better Thunderbolt 3 implementation.

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exaudium
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May 7, 2019 3:53 pm  

Hi @theitsage
I am planning a similar build to this, with a 2400G and a B450 MB and using either a Titan Ridge or Alpine Ridge.
The catch is I want this to be a Hackintosh. I saw that you managed to get this working on a 5,1 which proves the macOS support (ish). 
Could you tell me how I might go about getting this working on an AMD Hackintosh? Which TB controller should I use? Is this even possible?
FYI, I will be using the card to connect to a Focusrite Clarett Audio Interface which I believe using a TB1 connection. Does this change how I set it up or what AIC I use?
I'd really appreciate any help!
Thanks in advance!

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theitsage
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May 7, 2019 4:12 pm  

@exaudium You definitely need the GC-TITAN-RIDGE. It has a firmware that allows Thunderbolt 3 on non-supported system. The older GC-ALPINE-RIDGE AIC won't work without BIOS hacking. I haven't tried this setup on Hackintosh to comment whether that may work.

Given the multiple workarounds and additional hardware cost to connect your Thunderbolt 1 audio interface, I would suggest going with a Mac mini instead. Either a 2012 quad-core or 2018 i3 would make a good choice.

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exaudium
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May 7, 2019 6:41 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

@exaudium You definitely need the GC-TITAN-RIDGE. It has a firmware that allows Thunderbolt 3 on non-supported system. The older GC-ALPINE-RIDGE AIC won't work without BIOS hacking. I haven't tried this setup on Hackintosh to comment whether that may work.

Given the multiple workarounds and additional hardware cost to connect your Thunderbolt 1 audio interface, I would suggest going with a Mac mini instead. Either a 2012 quad-core or 2018 i3 would make a good choice.

Thanks for your reply. I kind of have my heart set on DIY build. The affordability of an AMD build is very appealing, and I'm sure an Intel based system would be far easier to set this up. 

If anyone has had any success with a Titan Ridge on an AMD Hackintosh please let me know!!!!

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May 12, 2019 10:24 am  

Haha, I’m actually about to start doing an amd hackintosh build and need thunderbolt to work with my Thunderbolt Display and UA Apollo.  Already ordered the threadripper.  Now I’m kind of scared of not being able to get it to work.  But I have a feeling it is possible, a guy used the titan ridge on a Mac Pro skylake build over on tonymac.  But the skylake is 2 grand.  Which is absurd to me.  I’ll let you guys know when I start ordering everything.  The designare x399 actually has a tbh header apparently.   It’s a bit expensive but having a header might help with hot swap/wake from sleep.

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exaudium
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May 20, 2019 12:36 pm  
Posted by: Steven Wicks

Haha, I’m actually about to start doing an amd hackintosh build and need thunderbolt to work with my Thunderbolt Display and UA Apollo.  Already ordered the threadripper.  Now I’m kind of scared of not being able to get it to work.  But I have a feeling it is possible, a guy used the titan ridge on a Mac Pro skylake build over on tonymac.  But the skylake is 2 grand.  Which is absurd to me.  I’ll let you guys know when I start ordering everything.  The designare x399 actually has a tbh header apparently.   It’s a bit expensive but having a header might help with hot swap/wake from sleep.

Hi Steven,
I'd love to know what the outcome of this build is. I've been searching for an answer on an AMD hackintosh with TB3 on an Alpine ridge for ages, and would love to know whether you manage to get this to work. I've been trying to spec an Intel based system but even that either with native TB3 or using an AIC seems to present challenges. 
As far as I'm aware, the inclusion of the TB header on the x399 is going to make things way easier with Threadripper. 
Do you reckon the same steps would be applicable on a 2400G or 2600?

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