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5K Ultrafine 1st gen via 1x DP 1.4 ?  

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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member Moderator
Joined: 4 years ago
 

Sorry to bang on about it folks, but...

While I try to be patient waiting for the next gen smaller MacBooks or Mac minis I'm going to have a tinker and build a SFFPC in the hopes to connect it up to my 5K.

I'm looking at this mono - https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3/index.asp which looks to have the best possible TB4 implementation. The original plan was to use either AMD Connect technology to run games off the dGPU while having the monitor connected to the TB3 port and powered by onboard graphics (Vega 11) but I have since found out this board has the wild feature of a DP in connected to the TB3 out which may negate the need for an Alpine ridge add in card (which would have to be external anyway seeing as you can't fit one in an ITX board if a GPU is fitted.

The only problem is I am unsure whether a dingle DP 1.4 to TB3 would drive the 5K as its the older rev 1 model and to be honest its all a bit beyond me working it out.

 

4K output is fine, I'll prob be running the monitor at 1440 when linked up to the SFFPC. If this fails I have a Node lite and Alpine Ridge card I can use but would much prefer fewer variables.

 

I'm guessing joevt will know the answer.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.15.4 & Win10 2004 [build link]  


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@eightarmedpet

I won't be able to test this particular issue, but I will be putting together a build based on this motherboard with a ryzen 5 3400g later this week as soon as the rest of the parts arrive.  I needed a small secondary PC I can use for wiping/cloning drives, and testing it out with my egpu setups sounded like fun too.

2019 16 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII MacOS 10.15.1
Core X Chroma + RTX 2080 Windows 10 1909
Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3, Ryzen 5 3400G + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1909

 
2020 13" Razer Blade Stealth (GTX1650Ti) [11th,4C,G] + RTX 2080 @ 32Gbps-TB4 (Razer Core X Chroma) + Win10 20H2 [build link]  


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member Moderator
Joined: 4 years ago
 

@ningauble77

oh nice man! I thinks thats the CPU I was looking at too - although I also read having an onboard GPU would mess with the pipe in pipe out of DP 1.4 so now not entirely sure what CPU to get... shame you are not UK based!

Let me know how it goes, is there a PC sub on this forum?

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.15.4 & Win10 2004 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@eightarmedpet

LG UltraFine 5K requires two DisplayPort 1.2 connections for 5K. That motherboard only has one input so you can only get 4K.

You might get 6K from an XDR display if you use a graphics card that supports Display Stream Compression (DSC) and the Windows drivers support DSC.

I have seen a 16" Mac Book Pro with 5300M or 5500M will drive the XDR display with DSC at HBR2 speed with a single DisplayPort 1.4 connection.

Does "Vega Series Graphics" support DSC?

For some reason the DisplayPort 1.4 input only supports 4096x2160 60Hz. Does that mean it's Alpine Ridge? The anandtech review says Titan Ridge so higher than 4096x2160 should be allowed. There's no information about a second DisplayPort input to the Titan Ridge (from the APU?) but that's not helpful because both inputs for a dual link display like the LG UltraFine 5K need to come from the same GPU.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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sevenup
(@sevenup)
Eminent Member
Joined: 11 months ago
 
Posted by: @joevt

For some reason the DisplayPort 1.4 input only supports 4096x2160 60Hz. Does that mean it's Alpine Ridge? 

I do not think it is the Alpine Ridge issue.

I just got a Dell Latitude 5300 power on the LG Ultrafine 5K (first gen.) by a single USB-C/TB3 cable with 5K resolution and it is a Alpine Ridge TB3 port.

DP 1.4 with DSC should support 8K resolution, more details are here

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member Moderator
Joined: 4 years ago
 

@joevt thanks so much for the detailed answer, I knew you were the guy to ask (seen youre on Hack forums a fair bit too) but didn't want to pester you by @ing.

4k @60hz is all I need really (although I will be targeting higher FPS), hopefully I will get this build done in a month or so and report back - since I feel confident about piping the GPU back and then out via TB3 I'll avoid a CPU with integrated GPU as I hear the AMD versions are less powerful than the ones without by a notable margin.

@sevenup thats super intersting, looks like most new gen GPUs have display port 1.4 with DSC so I wonder if I will actually be albeit get 5k (not thats its needed).

 

Thanks again guys, much appreciated, love this forum!

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.15.4 & Win10 2004 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

The XDR has multiple input modes.

6K: HBR2 DSC, HBR3 x 2 (Thunderbolt)
5K: HBR2 DSC (maybe? - I haven't seen that one yet), HBR2 x 2 (Thunderbolt)
4K: HBR2, HBR3 (maybe? I don't have information about 4K HDR)

The display is limited to 6K because that is the max resolution that can be transmitted over Thunderbolt 3 without DSC.

The LG UltraFine 5K has no DSC support (DSC is part of DisplayPort 1.4, and the LG UltraFine uses DisplayPort 1.2). You can drive the LG at 5K with a single DisplayPort connector in Windows by using a DisplayPort 1.4 MST hub, then connecting two outputs of the hub to a GC-TITAN RIDGE. You are limited to 8 bpc though. I don't know if an MST hub can accept DisplayPort 1.4 DSC input, and translate it to dual DisplayPort 1.2 non-DSC output. Maybe I should get a 5700XT to test that. macOS doesn't support MST for multiple displays though.

 

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: @eightarmedpet

@ningauble77

oh nice man! I thinks thats the CPU I was looking at too - although I also read having an onboard GPU would mess with the pipe in pipe out of DP 1.4 so now not entirely sure what CPU to get... shame you are not UK based!

Let me know how it goes, is there a PC sub on this forum?

Ok, I have the PC assembled:

X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3

Ryzen 3400G

16GB DDR3200

1TB Samsung Evo m.2 SSD

Inwin Chopin case with 150W PSU

I built this pc as a secondary computer for my desk, hoping it could share one of my egpu setups with my Macbook Pro.   So far, things are not looking very promising.  I updated to the lastest BIOS and installed Win 10 Pro 1909, with TB drivers from Asrock and the 2020 adrenalin drivers for the onboard gfx.  The radeon VII egpu yields error 12, which was sortof to be expected.  However, the RTX 2080/core x chroma don't work either, I am getting error 43.  I've tried DDU'ing everything, letting the igpu run with the basic display driver alongside the RTX card both hotplugged and coldplugged and so far no luck getting past error 43.  It is interesting to note that unlike my previous X99 TB3 setup, this board (with the 2.o bios at least) doesn't allocate a large memory area.  Not sure if that is contributing to the issues.   I've seen youtube videos where people have gotten egpu working with this Motherboard, but maybe it requires an older bios, or some specific settings.

 

One thing that may be of significance using this to drive a 5k monitor, is that I couldn't get video output until the windows login screen with my Samsung CRG9, using the onboard hdmi port.  I wasn't able to get BIOS or pre-bootscreen video output at all from the TB3 port using a USB-C to HDMI 2.0 adapter.  I was eventually able to get the BIOS to display from the HDMI port by putting my monitor into PBP mode and running it on half the screen in 2560x1440.

2019 16 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII MacOS 10.15.1
Core X Chroma + RTX 2080 Windows 10 1909
Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3, Ryzen 5 3400G + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1909

 
2020 13" Razer Blade Stealth (GTX1650Ti) [11th,4C,G] + RTX 2080 @ 32Gbps-TB4 (Razer Core X Chroma) + Win10 20H2 [build link]  


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member Moderator
Joined: 4 years ago
 

@ningauble77 Cheers for the info dude! I’ll try not to panic if I have the same. I wonder if you’re having an APU issue or TB3 issue? I have a couple of fall back plans if I can’t get TB output to work but I still feel it should be possible with the DP in.

 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.15.4 & Win10 2004 [build link]  


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Quick update, I got the Radeon VII/Core v2 working with the Asrock X570 itx tonight.  I'm not super familiar with modern AMD BIOS Settings, but I eventually found out that turning CSM Legacy compatibility off allowed me to enable "Above 4g Decoding" which allows PCI devices to allocate address space above the 4gig 32 bit limit.  Upon doing so I had a Large Memory entry in the device manager.  I was still getting Error 12, but after DDU'ing the AMD Drivers and reinstalling the Adrenalin 2020 drivers I am up and running.  The nvidia card still yields error 43, I am guessing it would work with a Ryzen CPU without the onboard Vega graphics.  I also initially tried doing the pci.sys trick, but windows repaired itself and I am still running fine with the 18362.418 pci.sys (much like my X99 PC which had no issues post 295 with the Radeon either).

I will post a complete build guide with benchmarks when I have time.

2019 16 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII MacOS 10.15.1
Core X Chroma + RTX 2080 Windows 10 1909
Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3, Ryzen 5 3400G + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1909

 
2020 13" Razer Blade Stealth (GTX1650Ti) [11th,4C,G] + RTX 2080 @ 32Gbps-TB4 (Razer Core X Chroma) + Win10 20H2 [build link]  


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