AMD Radeon Pro W5700x Graphics Card with USB-C Monitor Output
 

AMD Radeon Pro W5700x Graphics Card with USB-C Monitor Output  

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itsage
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AMD finally has a graphics card with USB-C monitor output! The Radeon Pro W5700 is part of Navi family and should have eGPU support in macOS. Hopefully USB-C port will make its way to other non-workstation Radeon cards in the near future.

This topic was modified 2 months ago

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Eightarmedpet
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joevt
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I can't find mention of the capabilities of the USB-C port on the AMD website. They say it's for video output. If it doesn't also support USB then it's useless. AnandTech says it's VirtualLink or at least for VR. Does VR actually need USB 3.1 Gen 2 speed?
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15124/amd-announces-radeon-pro-w5700-navi-gets-drafted-to-the-pros

ExtremeTech says that it supports DSC (Display Stream Compression). Have other cards mentioned support for DSC? I don't think I've seen examples of DSC from a PC before. I don't think Apple drivers support DSC.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/301999-hands-on-with-amds-new-radeon-pro-w5700-workstation-gpu

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joevt
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We now know that the Apple Pro Display XDR uses DSC HBR2 for 6K 12 bpc for GPUs that support DSC in macOS and Windows (5300M, 5500M, W5700X, maybe 5700XT, RTX 2080 Ti).

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sevenup
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what a pity 😥 😥 

maybe works for the new LG 5K USB-C version...but still 4k resolution?

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joevt
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@sevenup

LG UltraFine 5K can accept USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode input, but only at 4K because it does not support a single link 5K mode.

The LG UltraWide 5K2K display does support both dual link SST 5K over Thunderbolt (to support Macs that only have DisplayPort 1.2) and single link SST 5K using DisplayPort 1.4 (through separate DisplayPort input, and maybe also through Thunderbolt input).

The Apple Pro Display XDR through its Thunderbolt port supports all the connection modes of the LG UltraWide 5K2K for 5K or 4K resolutions but also adds a DSC option (required for 6K over single link) and a dual link HBR3 option (required for 6K for non-DSC computers).

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sevenup
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Posted by: @joevt

@sevenup

LG UltraFine 5K can accept USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode input, but only at 4K because it does not support a single link 5K mode.

The LG UltraWide 5K2K display does support both dual link SST 5K over Thunderbolt (to support Macs that only have DisplayPort 1.2) and single link SST 5K using DisplayPort 1.4 (through separate DisplayPort input, and maybe also through Thunderbolt input).

The Apple Pro Display XDR through its Thunderbolt port supports all the connection modes of the LG UltraWide 5K2K for 5K or 4K resolutions but also adds a DSC option (required for 6K over single link) and a dual link HBR3 option (required for 6K for non-DSC computers).

I just got my hands on the new arrived Razer Core X Chroma and AMD RP W5700, and the LR/PS performance under macOS is poor with LG 5K...will power on the LG 4K UK850 later for the performance test with LR/PS...and also compare the windows version later... 

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Aled Brown
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@sevenup

I'd be very interested in your tests with the LG 5K (with USB-C) and the W5700 on macOS. I have the 5K with USB-C and a WX9100 ATM but obviously there's no way to power the 5K directly. I was hoping the W5700 would do the trick.

Both LG and AMD websites are extremely vague on what the USB-C ports are capable of. If you read AMD's marketing at face value you'd believe all ports could drive an 8K singularly.

If you'd like to push Metal for some 3D Rendering on the GPU AMD's ProRender for Blender plug-in is really cool:

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-prorender-blender

2019 MBP15 2.4GHz i9 32GB with VEGA 20 dGPU - macOS 10.15
2019 LG 5K 94W Thunderbolt 3 Monitor
Radeon Pro WX9100 16GB + Sonnet Breakaway 650W eGPU
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sevenup
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I think macOS 10.15.2 didn't fully support the AMD RP W5700:

1.The eGPU recognized as AMD Radeon Navi10;

2.When plugin the LG 5K's TB3 cable to W5700's USB-C port, macOS popup a message to tell me the TB device is unrecognized and suggest to plugin the device directly to MBP;

3.App crashing randomly 😥 😥 😥 no matter plugin the LG 4k to the W5700's USB-C port or plugin the LG 5k to MBP's TB port;

btw, the W5700 is a very silent card 🙂 

Hope the next macOS build would save this card.

 

Posted by: @gelert42

@sevenup

I'd be very interested in your tests with the LG 5K (with USB-C) and the W5700 on macOS. I have the 5K with USB-C and a WX9100 ATM but obviously there's no way to power the 5K directly. I was hoping the W5700 would do the trick.

Both LG and AMD websites are extremely vague on what the USB-C ports are capable of. If you read AMD's marketing at face value you'd believe all ports could drive an 8K singularly.

If you'd like to push Metal for some 3D Rendering on the GPU AMD's ProRender for Blender plug-in is really cool:

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-prorender-blender

Me too...

the W5700's data sheet from AMD website shows the display output support is 3*5k and 3*8k.

And now I think it's real 😥 

W5700 datesheet
 
Posted by: @joevt

@sevenup

LG UltraFine 5K can accept USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode input, but only at 4K because it does not support a single link 5K mode.

The LG UltraWide 5K2K display does support both dual link SST 5K over Thunderbolt (to support Macs that only have DisplayPort 1.2) and single link SST 5K using DisplayPort 1.4 (through separate DisplayPort input, and maybe also through Thunderbolt input).

The Apple Pro Display XDR through its Thunderbolt port supports all the connection modes of the LG UltraWide 5K2K for 5K or 4K resolutions but also adds a DSC option (required for 6K over single link) and a dual link HBR3 option (required for 6K for non-DSC computers).

The 7nm RDNA card such as RX 5700 series are DP 1.4 DSC ready, so I was hoping W5700's USB-C port has DSC option too.

Now I believe the W5700's USB-C port is for easy plugin VR devices only.

This post was modified 5 days ago

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Aled Brown
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@sevenup

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. The W5700 is coming to the Mac Pro as an MPX card so the next few updates to macOS should bring full support and hopefully the external W5700 will also begin to work.

I saw the AMD data sheet but it isn't explicit that it'll do 5K through the USB-C port. It sounds like it 'should'.

And as you say it's also an issue of "Will the LG 5K accept it" if it does. LG don't say what their screen is capable of.

I bought the 5K with the USB-C option because I hoped it would be a little more future proof than just having TB3. But there's also hope that USB-4 which is TB3 may save the day in a few years time.

I'd be happy with fully accelerated 4K from the W5700 via USB-C to the LG5K to be honest.

 

2019 MBP15 2.4GHz i9 32GB with VEGA 20 dGPU - macOS 10.15
2019 LG 5K 94W Thunderbolt 3 Monitor
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motoic
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Posted by: @itsage

AMD finally has a graphics card with USB-C monitor output! The Radeon Pro W5700 is part of Navi family and should have eGPU support in macOS. Hopefully USB-C port will make its way to other non-workstation Radeon cards in the near future.

What can the USB-C out do that the usual outs (HDMI/DP) can't do?

Right now I go EGPU → Monitor DP and Monitor → Laptop USB-C. How / what would that change?

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joevt
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Posted by: @gelert42

I'd be very interested in your tests with the LG 5K (with USB-C) and the W5700 on macOS. I have the 5K with USB-C and a WX9100 ATM but obviously there's no way to power the 5K directly. I was hoping the W5700 would do the trick.

Do you have the new LG UltraFine 5K with Titan Ridge or the old LG UltraFine 5K with Alpine Ridge? Only the new Titan Ridge version can be connected to a USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode port, and the LG UltraFine 5K can only work at 4K when connected that way.

The WX9100 is a more powerful card compared to the W5700 but the WX9100 probably doesn't support DSC.

Posted by: @sevenup

When plugin the LG 5K's TB3 cable to W5700 's USB-C port, macOS popup a message to tell me the TB device is unrecognized and suggest to plugin the device directly to MBP ;

A Thunderbolt device that doesn't have Titan Ridge would have that behavior.

Posted by: @sevenup

The 7nm RDNA card such as RX 5700 series are DP 1.4 DSC ready, so I was hoping W5700 's USB-C port has DSC option too.

The LG UltraFine 5K displays don't support DSC. The Apple Pro Display XDR supports DSC. A DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub supports DSC. macOS will only allow one display to work from an MST Hub (other displays connected to the hub will be mirrored) but it might be a useful test if you have no other DSC devices. I have no DSC capable GPU yet.
https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/displayport-1-4-mst-hub/

Can you post results of the following commands with the LG UltraFine 5K connected to a Thunderbolt port, and something else connected to the USB-C port of the W5700?

system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPThunderboltDataType SPPCIDataType > system_profile.txt
ioreg -ilrw0 -c IOPCIDevice > ioregpci.txt
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1
Posted by: @gelert42

If you read AMD's marketing at face value you'd believe all ports could drive an 8K singularly.

8K30 without DSC. 8K60 with DSC. Should be fine either way. 8K60 dual cable (Dell UP3218K in Windows) should also work.

Posted by: @sevenup

I think macOS 10.15.2 didn't fully support the AMD RP W5700

Maybe 10.15.3 beta will work better?

Posted by: @sevenup

the W5700's data sheet from AMD website shows the display output support is 3*5k and 3*8k.

And now I think it's real 😥 

What's wrong with that?

Posted by: @gelert42

And as you say it's also an issue of "Will the LG 5K accept it" if it does. LG don't say what their screen is capable of.

The LG UltraFine 5K has been tested a million times by other people. There is no single DisplayPort connection 5K mode. The LG UltraWide 5K2K has a single DisplayPort connection mode for its 5K2K resolution. The Ilyama Prolite XB2779QQS-S1 has a single cable 5K mode (but only 8bpc because no DSC).

Posted by: @gelert42

I bought the 5K with the USB-C option because I hoped it would be a little more future proof than just having TB3.

But the USB-C option only allows 4K for this display. The XDR display is more future proof because it can do 6K from USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode (if DSC is supported by the GPU).

Posted by: @tsh3721

What can the USB-C out do that the usual outs (HDMI/DP) can't do?

A GPU with a USB-C port can directly drive USB-C displays and transmit USB 3.1 gen 2 (for 2 lane displays or docks) or USB 2.0 at the same time (some displays use USB for a hub and audio and controls). A single cable transmits DisplayPort and USB.

This post was modified 5 days ago

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Aled Brown
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Thanks for all the useful and interesting replies. 🙂 

I think we can all agree the display connection standards and types are a <bleep>in mess 😈 

My LG 5K is the 2019 with the USB-C on it. It wasn't communicated very well (if at all) from LG that it was restricted to 4K, that only came later that the iPad Pro could only do 4K from Apple.

So that's why I hung onto some hope.

The 6K Apple may do more via DSC but it's also 5x the price of the LG. I'd prefer to wait for GPUs to gain Thunderbolt or Blackmagic to make a new one when AMD bring out their next gen RDNA cards.

I'd still be interested to see what the USB-C on the W5700 does with the 5K LG on macOS when 10.15.3 or 15.4 comes out with full support.

 

 

This post was modified 5 days ago

2019 MBP15 2.4GHz i9 32GB with VEGA 20 dGPU - macOS 10.15
2019 LG 5K 94W Thunderbolt 3 Monitor
Radeon Pro WX9100 16GB + Sonnet Breakaway 650W eGPU
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sevenup
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Posted by: @gelert42

Thanks for all the useful and interesting replies. 🙂 

I think we can all agree the display connection standards and types are a <bleep>in mess 😈 

My LG 5K is the 2019 with the USB-C on it. It wasn't communicated very well (if at all) from LG that it was restricted to 4K, that only came later that the iPad Pro could only do 4K from Apple.

So that's why I hung onto some hope.

The 6K Apple may do more via DSC but it's also 5x the price of the LG. I'd prefer to wait for GPUs to gain Thunderbolt or Blackmagic to make a new one when AMD bring out their next gen RDNA cards.

I'd still be interested to see what the USB-C on the W5700 does with the 5K LG on macOS when 10.15.3 or 15.4 comes out with full support.

 

 

Yes, me too...

This post was modified 4 days ago

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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joevt
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@sevenup

Can you post results of the following commands with the LG UltraFine 5K connected to a Thunderbolt port, and something else connected to the USB-C port of the W5700 ?

system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPThunderboltDataType SPPCIDataType > system_profile.txt
ioreg -ilrw0 -c IOPCIDevice > ioregpci.txt
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1
The commands will tell us about the USB controller of the GPU if it has one and whether a macOS driver is attached. It will also tell us what kind of LG UltraFine 5K you have.
 

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Aled Brown
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        UltraFine 5K:

          Vendor Name: LG Electronics
          Device Name: UltraFine 5K
          Vendor ID: 0x1E
          Device ID: 0x1114
          Device Revision: 0x2
          UID: 0x001E4DF8B4722E00
          Route String: 3
          Firmware Version: 43.1
          Port (Upstream):
              Status: Device connected
              Link Status: 0x2
              Speed: Up to 40 Gb/s x1
              Current Link Width: 0x2
              Cable Firmware Version: 0.9.0
              Link Controller Firmware Version: 1.23.0

2019 MBP15 2.4GHz i9 32GB with VEGA 20 dGPU - macOS 10.15
2019 LG 5K 94W Thunderbolt 3 Monitor
Radeon Pro WX9100 16GB + Sonnet Breakaway 650W eGPU
Radeon RX 580 8GB + Sonnet Developer 350W eGPU


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sevenup
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Posted by: @joevt

Posted by: @gelert42

I'd be very interested in your tests with the LG 5K (with USB-C) and the W5700 on macOS. I have the 5K with USB-C and a WX9100 ATM but obviously there's no way to power the 5K directly. I was hoping the W5700 would do the trick.

Do you have the new LG UltraFine 5K with Titan Ridge or the old LG UltraFine 5K with Alpine Ridge? Only the new Titan Ridge version can be connected to a USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode port, and the LG UltraFine 5K can only work at 4K when connected that way.

The WX9100 is a more powerful card compared to the W5700 but the WX9100 probably doesn't support DSC.

Posted by: @sevenup

When plugin the LG 5K's TB3 cable to W5700 's USB-C port, macOS popup a message to tell me the TB device is unrecognized and suggest to plugin the device directly to MBP ;

A Thunderbolt device that doesn't have Titan Ridge would have that behavior.

Posted by: @sevenup

The 7nm RDNA card such as RX 5700 series are DP 1.4 DSC ready, so I was hoping W5700 's USB-C port has DSC option too.

The LG UltraFine 5K displays don't support DSC. The Apple Pro Display XDR supports DSC. A DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub supports DSC. macOS will only allow one display to work from an MST Hub (other displays connected to the hub will be mirrored) but it might be a useful test if you have no other DSC devices. I have no DSC capable GPU yet.
https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/displayport-1-4-mst-hub/

Can you post results of the following commands with the LG UltraFine 5K connected to a Thunderbolt port, and something else connected to the USB-C port of the W5700?

system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPThunderboltDataType SPPCIDataType > system_profile.txt
ioreg -ilrw0 -c IOPCIDevice > ioregpci.txt
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1
Posted by: @gelert42

If you read AMD's marketing at face value you'd believe all ports could drive an 8K singularly.

8K30 without DSC. 8K60 with DSC. Should be fine either way. 8K60 dual cable (Dell UP3218K in Windows) should also work.

Posted by: @sevenup

I think macOS 10.15.2 didn't fully support the AMD RP W5700

Maybe 10.15.3 beta will work better?

Posted by: @sevenup

the W5700's data sheet from AMD website shows the display output support is 3*5k and 3*8k.

And now I think it's real 😥 

What's wrong with that?

Posted by: @gelert42

And as you say it's also an issue of "Will the LG 5K accept it" if it does. LG don't say what their screen is capable of.

The LG UltraFine 5K has been tested a million times by other people. There is no single DisplayPort connection 5K mode. The LG UltraWide 5K2K has a single DisplayPort connection mode for its 5K2K resolution. The Ilyama Prolite XB2779QQS-S1 has a single cable 5K mode (but only 8bpc because no DSC).

Posted by: @gelert42

I bought the 5K with the USB-C option because I hoped it would be a little more future proof than just having TB3.

But the USB-C option only allows 4K for this display. The XDR display is more future proof because it can do 6K from USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode (if DSC is supported by the GPU).

Posted by: @tsh3721

What can the USB-C out do that the usual outs (HDMI/DP) can't do?

A GPU with a USB-C port can directly drive USB-C displays and transmit USB 3.1 gen 2 (for 2 lane displays or docks) or USB 2.0 at the same time (some displays use USB for a hub and audio and controls). A single cable transmits DisplayPort and USB.

Sorry for the late reply, here are the result.

The LG Ultrafine 5k 1st gen is plug into the mbp's tb port, and Razer Core X Chroma plug into the mbp's tb port, and a LG UK850 4K plug into the W5700's usb-c port.
 
 2020 01 23
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Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Joe Yun
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Hi guys. I just got my new w5700 . And I have 2 x ultrafine5K. I directly connected usb-c to my one of monitor but it did not work. I checked window10 and macOS catalina 10.15.2 but no luck for both. I am wondering my gpu is defective? Or this won't work with LG ultrafine5K? Since I knew ultrafine 5K having thunderbolt in it, it is not compatible? With w5700 's USB-C port?

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joevt
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@sevenup

Thanks. What model MacBook Pro do you have?

The W5700 has "dsc_support YES" so it seems that it will support DSC.

The USB info shows the W5700 has a working USB 3.1 gen 2 controller (with Vendor ID : AMD and new Product ID 7316 near that of "7312 Navi 10 [Radeon Pro W5700]"

    USB 3.1 Bus:

      Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBXHCIPCI
      PCI Device ID: 0x7316 
      PCI Revision ID: 0x0000 
      PCI Vendor ID: 0x1002 

with all the USB devices of the LG 27UK850-W connected to that via an internal USB 2.0 hub.

You have the LG UltraFine 5K connected to the same side as the Razer. For best performance, the eGPU should be by itself, but I don't think you'll notice a difference (the LG UltraFine 5K only has a USB 3.0 controller).

The USB-C port of the W5700 seems to be working. Is the 4K display ok?

Do you have a fast USB-C drive to test, maybe a USB-C to NVMe enclosure that can do 980 MB/s? It would be nice to know how fast the USB is of the USB-C port.

Did the Nvidia RTX USB-C ports ever get tested in macOS? They won't work for video but could work for USB data?

 

@joe_yun

If you have the old LG UltraFine 5K with Alpine Ridge and with EDID product ID 5b11 then it won't work.

If you have the new LG UltraFine 5K with Titan Ridge and with EDID product ID 5b74 then it will work at 4K from the non-Thunderbolt USB-C port of the W5700.

This post was modified 3 days ago

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Joe Yun
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@joevt

Thank you for reply with the answer. 
I guess mine are older version then. 
I can not believe I paid that much money and they made different types of monitor on the same price. I wish I could exchange it. Btw thank you so much.

 

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joevt
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Posted by: @joevt

with all the USB devices of the LG 27UK850-W connected to that via an internal USB 2.0 hub.

Minor correction: the internal hub of the LG 27UK850-W is USB 3.0 but it can only operate at USB 2.0 speed while using the USB-C for DisplayPort input.

Posted by: @joe_yun

I guess mine are older version then. 

Did you check? Here's a command that will output the vendor and product IDs of your displays:

eval $(ioreg -ilw0 | egrep 'Display(Product|Vendor)ID' | sed -Ee "s/[ |]+(.*) = (.*)/printf '\1 = 0x%x\\\n' \2;/")

The product ID of the old one is 0x5b11. The product ID of the new one is 0x5b74.

There might be a model number on the back of the display, 27MD5KA for the old one and 27MD5KL for the new one.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/LG-refreshes-the-UltraFine-5K-monitor-for-2019.428467.0.html

 

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joevt
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Posted by: @sevenup

2.When plugin the LG 5K's TB3 cable to W5700 's USB-C port, macOS popup a message to tell me the TB device is unrecognized and suggest to plugin the device directly to MBP ;

Forgot to mention that the ioregpci.txt output shows that you have the old LG UltraFine 5K which does not support USB-C (non Thunderbolt) input.

grep $((0x5b11)) ioregpci.txt # look for old LG UltraFine 5K
    | |           "DisplayProductID" = 23313

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sevenup
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Posted by: @joevt
Posted by: @sevenup

2.When plugin the LG 5K's TB3 cable to W5700 's USB-C port, macOS popup a message to tell me the TB device is unrecognized and suggest to plugin the device directly to MBP ;

Forgot to mention that the ioregpci.txt output shows that you have the old LG UltraFine 5K which does not support USB-C (non Thunderbolt) input.

grep $((0x5b11)) ioregpci.txt # look for old LG UltraFine 5K
    | |           "DisplayProductID" = 23313

Thanks for all your informations, good to know the W5700 has DSC option.

The UK850 works fine with the W5700’s usb-c port.

I don't have a highspeed NVMe pssd rightnow to test the usb-c speed.

And also couldn’t insert a Intel 750 NVMe PCI-E into the Razer Core X Chroma for the half width of the second pcie slot :/

Waiting for the next macOS update 🙂

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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itsage
(@itsage)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

@sevenup The RTX cards’ USB-C port runs at USB 3.1 gen1 speed. I would guess AMD does the same for this W5700.

This post was modified 2 days ago

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joevt
(@joevt)
Prominent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@itsage

Your screenshot says USB 3.1 SuperSpeed Plus - the "Plus" means gen 2. What device is connected in the ATTO benchmark? It could be a SATA SSD but in that case you might expect 500 MB/s instead of just the 465 MB/s that you show... actually, isn't 465 MB/s beyond gen 1 speed? 5Gbs * 8b/10b = 500 MB/s but 465 MB/s might be too close to that theoretical max. Wikipedia says USB 3.1 gen 1 (aka USB 3.0) is limited to around 400 MB/s. I tested a Plugable.com usbc-nvme with my MacMini8,1 USB type A port (USB 3.0) and got 440 MB/s (gen 2 from a Thunderbolt port of the same MacMini8,1 allows 980 MB/s).

I don't think it makes sense to limit a USB-C port to just gen 1 speed, especially since these GPUs have access to 16 lanes. If they support VirtualLink, then they should have a gen 2 USB controller.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualLink

 

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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joevt
(@joevt)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Testing at https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-02-28-psa-the-usb-c-port-on-rtx-graphics-cards-isnt-just-for-vr shows 750 MB/s (kind of slow for gen 2 - is the controller limited internally to PCIe 3.0 x1 or PCIe 2.0 x2 - maybe they're using ASM1142 crappy tech).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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