Radeon VII compatible with Mac?  

I said this already once: It would be perfect if the disconnect icon wouldn't disappear when nVidia is enabled. It would be perfect, if all eGPUs attached were listed, but only the AMD eGPUs were selectable, the nVidia entries are grey. It's a great pity when the icon disappears completely. Can this be done, @mac_editor?

Hi, I have a Macbook pro 2018 with Radeon Pro Vega 20 & intel 630 GPUs.

I bought the Razer Chroma X case, and a Radeon VII just like some of you have done. WHile I get a working desktop, I dont see the VII listed in the About This Mac (unlike some of you who have posted earlier:  The VII lists beneath the intel in About This Mac.  It DOES list the eGPU under System Report -> Graphics (it lists all three:  Intel, Radeon Pro Vega, and Radeon VII).  Further, when I launch BOINC to run SETI at Home, it doesnt show the Radeon VII at all.  How did you get the VII to show in About This Mac?  Thank you greatly, Mark

Posted by: seegemhuksa

Hi, I have a Macbook pro 2018 with Radeon Pro Vega 20 & intel 630 GPUs.

I bought the Razer Chroma X case, and a Radeon VII just like some of you have done. WHile I get a working desktop, I dont see the VII listed in the About This Mac (unlike some of you who have posted earlier:  The VII lists beneath the intel in About This Mac.  It DOES list the eGPU under System Report -> Graphics (it lists all three:  Intel, Radeon Pro Vega, and Radeon VII).  Further, when I launch BOINC to run SETI at Home, it doesnt show the Radeon VII at all.  How did you get the VII to show in About This Mac?  Thank you greatly, Mark

Have a look here.

Hi im thinking about getting a radeon vii, is it working properly in 10.14.5 now? (also does the fan still keep running in sleep?)

Posted by: blessf

Hi im thinking about getting a radeon vii, is it working properly in 10.14.5 now? (also does the fan still keep running in sleep?)

Unfortunately, my Mac Mini 2018 is still causing fans to run at about 70% when it enters sleep mode. Others on Mac Book's etc seem to have had better luck.

Another reminder – The fan issue when Thunderbolt connection with the host computer is suspended is due to the Radeon VII board design. I’ve heard confirmation from AMD and Apple. AMD needs to issue a fix.

@itsage Are you saying this is completely a hardware issue, or is there the possibility of a firmware patch to address the sleep behavior?

Posted by: itsage

Another reminder - The fan issue when Thunderbolt connection with the host computer is suspended is due to the Radeon VII board design. I've heard confirmation from AMD and Apple. AMD needs to issue a fix.

This fan issue can be solved also from the enclosure side.

https://egpu.io/forums/gpu-monitor-peripherals/radeon-vii-compatible-with-mac/paged/8/#post-57817

I guess that other manufacturers have not implemented two-stage power on (+5VSB) and they lack +3V3. Has anyone tested with a multimeter if the pin 10 side A is powered when the TB3 cable is disconnected?

Side B +3.3V aux is mainly for Wake-on-LAN, and not used nowadays.

Posted by: Robin_Martin

@itsage Are you saying this is completely a hardware issue, or is there the possibility of a firmware patch to address the sleep behavior?

Simply as said wisely @goalque, i suppose both eGPU enclosure and gpu manufacturer didn't speak with each others to build decent features and need to catch up with some fancy fix to solve the issue.

The industry in general really lack proper testing since it cost money and resources, manufacturers rely mostly nowadays on users to do the testing job to improve features, it is simply slower to get a fix than doing proper testing before the product launch.

Tbh quite happy to have left AMD after more than 17 years, proud owner of a GTX1080 paid 300e, could not be more happy!

Posted by: itsage

Another reminder - The fan issue when Thunderbolt connection with the host computer is suspended is due to the Radeon VII board design. I've heard confirmation from AMD and Apple. AMD needs to issue a fix.

Someone on Reddit posted this:

R7 connected to PSU but otherwise not plugged into any pcie ports have fans spinning. It's a board issue, either by accident or by design.

With Computex right around the corner, it’s best to wait for Navi imo.

@kelvin_tan @itsage but there are some users that reported that it works fine for them, we should make a list of all the working VII configurations, and try to get the board revision or firmware version. I hope that is something a firmware update can fix.

Is the r7 fan really that bad/loud?  Havent seen any vids showing the noise while its asleep

I could try watercooling one if that helps it

Posted by: crhendo

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Posted by: itsage

I installed 10.14.5 Beta 2 just now. Mantiz Venus + Radeon VII turns off and remains quiet when I shut down 2018 Mac mini. Sleep mode behaves like Beta 1. The Mac mini would go to sleep but Radeon VII stays on and fans run moderately, not full speed.

I can confirm exactly the same behaviour with Beta 2 on my Razer Core X with Radeon VII. Sleep occurs with fans running just above half speed. Still too noisy to ignore!

We should try not to forget that some of us saw a change in behaviour with 10.4.5 Beta 2. Instead of the fans spinning full speed after entering sleep, they now run at a "moderate" speed of somewhere around 60-70% (my guess). This does point to a change made by Apple and at this stage I was hopeful that the next Beta would fix the problem.....alas this was not the case..

Posted by: blessf

I could try watercooling one if that helps it

Do it

Posted by: itsage

With Computex right around the corner, it's best to wait for Navi imo.

Don't want to deceive you, but as said before Navi is mainly a console gpu.
There is nothing to wait for, it is the copycat of polaris just a bit more powerful.
The real Navi gpu will go out the next year or so, so unfortunately there is nothing to wait for. 

@  Kelvin Tan
Leave the Reddit ignorance out of this forum.
What just shown do not prove nothing aside the gpu fan spin when it is powered up!
It's what most gpu do and still do not exhibit sleep issues with enclosures and MacBooks.

@wimpzilla do you know something others don’t reg Navi? I’m hoping for near 580 performance out of a 75w Navi Gpu.

I ordered the new Alphacool Eiswolf 240 GPX Pro AMD Radeon VII All-in-one and will report back.
Of course it will also workaround the fan issue, because the fans are not driven by the card's PWM anymore then. We will see...

Posted by: wimpzilla

Posted by: itsage

With Computex right around the corner, it's best to wait for Navi imo.

Don't want to deceive you, but as said before Navi is mainly a console gpu.
There is nothing to wait for, it is the copycat of polaris just a bit more powerful.
The real Navi gpu will go out the next year or so, so unfortunately there is nothing to wait for. 

@  Kelvin Tan
Leave the Reddit ignorance out of this forum.
What just shown do not prove nothing aside the gpu fan spin when it is powered up!
It's what most gpu do and still do not exhibit sleep issues with enclosures and MacBooks.

@wimpzilla not too sure about Reddit ignorance but I plugged my GTX 1080ti and Vega 56, and a nitro+ rx580 into a turned on PSU, with no pcie connection, and the fans don't spin. You mean your cards spin its fans with just the two 8pin power connectors as a norm?

This is important as it could be because enclosures on sleep or shutdown do not send any signal to the pcie port, hence the GPU fans come on.

Reddit is not the most serious kind of forum, it's like a social media, you can't reliably find information aside when a lot of users verified it, in my opinion.

About the spinning fan, a lot of old gpu don't have the 0 fan stop feature, instead the fan spin at boot when the card is powered up, even before loading the mb/vga bios.
We would get a lot more fan issues on a wider range of gpu.

As @goalque said, dunno if it is:
1/An electrical connection issue where the pcb features are available but have not been implemented.
2/It is simply a software issue, as missing ACPI power management features. 
3/ A real pcb and electrical engineering issue, where there is something borked about the gpu board design and need a new product revision.
If i understand the @itsage words, it seems to me that the features are present but these were not implemented as it should to allow the sleep option to works with enclosures.

About Navi, i repeat myself, Navi is a console gpu, it have been developed for consoles, AMD don't focus anymore on real desktop gpu's.
From what AMD is leaking now, the revision coming out this year is the copy cat of what will be used in the console market.
So the performances should hover around a GTX2060/2070 as leaked, what you will find in the new PSx or XBOXx.

The real Navi will come out the next year, when AMD will begin to work on the compute side of Navi gpu's, like Vega and VegaII came from the compute based gpû products, the next gpu hovering the VegaII performances will be a consumer version of the next professional compute Navi gpu proposed by AMD. 

Edit:  Typos! 

Edit':  @kushNYC 
Sorry it was not clear enough, so yes what is called Navi for desktop, coming out this summer, is nothing less than the Navi developed primarily for the console market, then being recycled for desktop users, more or less like Polaris is/was.
What i meant with the the "real" Navi gpu, is the consumer version of the compute Navi, that will come out next year or so, like Vega/VegaII are the recycled consumer gpu coming from the compute professional side of the RadeonPro/MI25 gpu's.
The last real desktop gpu developed by AMD is the Radeon R9 390X, Fiji was already planned to be the compute side of the market pioneering Vega architecture refresh.

@wimpzilla let’s not jump to conclusions - there’s some possible indication (albeit a rumor that was taken down) that Navi for consumer desktops will be announced - and competing against 2060/2070 cards -  in early July.  According to these same sources Radeon VII will remain flagship. Take it with a grain.

Posted by: Roedi78

I ordered the new Alphacool Eiswolf 240 GPX Pro AMD Radeon VII All-in-one and will report back.
Of course it will also workaround the fan issue, because the fans are not driven by the card's PWM anymore then. We will see...

careful, heard their quality isnt too great for their AIO.  
best bet is a block + your own pump/res.

or the watercooled vega 64.

so i'll be returning my macbook before i purchase my R7 lol

paid 2599 for the 2.6GHz i7 on friday and now apple is selling the same spec 2019 model for 2519 with an improved keyboard. 

2599 now get me the 2.3GHz 9th gen i9. so deciding between the two new i9s. would the radeon gain anything from the 2.4ghz i9? 

the 2.3GHz turbos to 4.8 while the the 2.4GHz turbos to 5GHz, i plan to use it for4k gaming, coding, and 4k video editing.

edit: looked at other laptop with the 9th gen and even thicker/better cooled laptop end up running at 4.7GHz while undervolted  on the 9980HK.
the 9980hk can pull 175w, so no way i'd be able to utilize that, think i'll stick with the 2.3GHz 9880H instead.

Posted by: kushNYC

@wimpzilla let’s not jump to conclusions - there’s some possible indication (albeit a rumor that was taken down) that Navi for consumer desktops will be announced - and competing against 2060/2070 cards -  in early July.  According to these same sources Radeon VII will remain flagship. Take it with a grain.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/291740-sapphire-leaks-details-on-amds-upcoming-navi-including-price-positioning

well more rumors hitting at navi being below the radeon vii

Heads up to 2018/2019 15” MacBook Pro owners.  Apple released a “Supplemental Update” to macOS 10.14.5 yesterday to address a firmware issue.  They don’t specify what the issue is. Read more here.

Posted by: blessf

careful, heard their quality isnt too great for their AIO.  
best bet is a block + your own pump/res.

Don't know, I'll give it a try. In an eGPU enclosure I don't have much space and I also don't own an external pump system yet, so the AiO is the best value for money I think. Even if I can't OC that much, the expected silence is promising. 😉

I have the 2019 iMac with core i9/Vega 48, Sonnet Breakaway Box 650 and Radeon VII combo. The fan issue after sleep is a very annoying problem for me too. I was hoping for a firmware update from Sonnet to address this if possible so kept looking at their website. They put this note on there last week; They suggest to manually shutdown egpu box after sleep or shutdown... 

AMD Radeon Vega 64 (air cooled), Vega Frontier Edition (air cooled); Radeon Pro WX8200 or WX9100; Radeon VII*:
These cards are supported in the Breakaway Box 650.

*The Radeon VII requires macOS 10.14.5 beta 5+ or Windows 10 Build 1809+. The Radeon VII fans unnecessarily run at full speed upon sleep or shutdown. To quiet the fans, the user must power down an eGPU chassis with a Radeon VII upon sleep or shutdown

I'll wait for the fan fix and for Apple to list it in their eGPU support article. Then purchase.

I'm travelling at the moment so won't be back to my Mac Mini and Radeon VII until the end of the week.

I just found this potential "gem" in an AMD community thread.

"Problem solved without RMA, the cooling connector on the GPU was not connected fully.

While I do feel a bit silly for checking on the GPU so late, I wouldn't expect something on it not to be fully functional right out of the box. I would certainly expect me not installing the GPU correctly, but that was ruled out long ago.

So if anyone has similar issues, check the bottom-right corner of the GPU (while facing the fans) and push down on the wired connector. This is not supposed to move or be removed at any point in time but due to shipping it might dislodge slightly."

While I know the symptoms are different, perhaps one of you could have a quick look at this and give it a try. I'm starting to become a little desperate.

Looks like AMD previewed the Navi desktop series as rumored at their Computex keynote.  It’s called the AMD Radeon RX 5000 series.  Details everywhere - but you can look here or  here.  Looks promising.

 I hope they don’t forget about Radeon VII’s, thus far, lackluster optimization and support.

@kushnyc honestly i don't think they will forget, VII is still the most powerful card that they have at the moment, the only one competing with the RTX2080/2080 Ti (Obviously not in eGPU performance but Desktop), and the funny thing is that they decided to unveil the RX5700 targeting the RTX2070, so probably they are still taking more time to have RDNA reaching RTX2080/2080 Ti.

@crhendo was revamping the setup so tried reconnecting the RVII fans, but no go - still max fans on sleep/shutdown. If the problem really was a loose connector then like the link you had, the fans will be on full speed all the time. The fans work properly when the OS is booted and awake, which means the PWM signals are being sent properly.

Decided to break out the Razer Core X Chroma and see if i can squeeze in a small EKWB pump + 240mm rad (after switching the original PSU out to a Corsair SF750).

It's not worth the hassle compared to the simpler breakout of the Mantiz Venus.

For those who have the capability to mount either a water cooling loop or system fans - you all can consider using the Aquacomputer Quadro computer to take over fan control duties - it comes with a thermocouple that you can affix to the back of the Radeon VII (I'm reading water temps since i'm on water cooling). Or you can even break out the Radeon VII's PWM fans connector, splice it to a proper 4-pin fan header, and connect to it.

I suspect the key issue with the board here is 12v rails from the 2x8pin pcie connectors are passed to the RVII fan header. When the egpu goes to sleep or shutdown, the PSU is still kept alive, but the pcie pins do not have any signal on the 3.3V standby state pullups (can only verify with something like an Agilent PCIE protocol analyser, maybe we can chip in to buy for the egpu.io mods a set since it's going to be very useful for their reviews). Thus the pwm signal is missing (board circuitry is powered down), but the 12v rails to the fan header is still active (max fans).

I'm just sticking with this setup and calling it a day. The RVII performs very well with low temps under water, and it was really fun to build a miniaturised standalone CLC.

@kelvin_tan thanks for taking the time to check this out. I suspected this would be the case but it was worth the try.

My Razer Core X setup has no problem handling shutdown and since around Beta 3 the fans only spin up to around 70% during sleep. Odd they you see different behavior.

I live in hope!

@crhendo no probs I was hoping that the loose pin would be the issue too. I think the reason why your shutdown works is because you are on a Mac Mini.

Thiswas something I started noticing after i started using the 12v rails for the Aquacomputer and RGB.

When my MBP goes to sleep OR shutdown, the 12v rails are live. I suspect this is because the Mac needs the PSU alive to charge, whether sleeping or shutdown. The only time the PSU really shuts off is when I unplug the tb3 cable, or press the power switch on the PSU itself.

For the Mac mini, your power source is from the 2pin AC plug, so while on sleep the tb3 still sends a signal to the enclosure to stay alive, on shutdown it allows the egpu to power down entirely since the Mac mini does not draw power from the egpu.

So, like the Reddit image above, PSU alive +  no pcie signal to the Radeon vii = fans blast.

Would it be possible to bridge the RVII fan header to the Core X fan pins? So the RVII fans run when the Core X deems it to be under load?

Posted by: Arden Shibley

Would it be possible to bridge the RVII fan header to the Core X fan pins? So the RVII fans run when the Core X deems it to be under load?

@arden_shibley The problem with core X fan header is it's a DC header, not pwm. Thus if you splice the r7 fans to the core X header, it will always be on full speed.

The second problem is it's not advisable to regulate fans based on tb3 chipset temps, especially when you have no control over curves, etc. You will definitely cook your card  very fast.

Dang. Thanks!

Are you loving having it on water? EK block? Worth it?