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Radeon VII compatible with Mac?
 

Radeon VII compatible with Mac?  

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crhendo
(@crhendo)
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Joined: 4 months ago
 
Posted by: Ningauble77

  Additionally, similar to my experience in MacOS, when put to sleep, my fans spin down properly (although in both cases the time it takes to sleep and to wake are much longer than I am accustomed to).

Hi, sounds like you are making considerable progress!

Can I please confirm that when you put MacOS to sleep, your Radeon VII fans spin down as they should? I have still not made any progress on this and am very keen to hear how you achieved this.

Mac Mini 2018 i7 64GB 1TB
Razer Core X, Radeon VII, Dell U3818DW
OWC 4M2 4x2TB Intel 660P, CalDigit TS3+
OWC Thunderbay 6 48TB, G-Speed Studio 40TB


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Unfortunately, myself and a few other people have not had the sleep fan issue from basically the initial installation forward.  It may be we have a different revision of the pcb, or it could be something specific to the firmware in our enclosures.  Recently there was a post from someone with a very similar configuration, with a 2019 MB Pro 13, Core v2 and Radeon VII on Reddit, which other than the laptop model seemed identical to mine, and he *was* experiencing the fan spinup problem. I would take apart the card to verify pcb revisions, but the thermal material on the Radeon VII is somewhat exotic and difficult to replace.

2018 13 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809/MacOS 10.14.5 Beta
ASUS X99 Deluxe+Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809


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wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
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Joined: 2 years ago

OliverB and kushNYC liked
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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Joined: 3 months ago
 
Posted by: @wimpzilla

Just to point out that AMD moved R7 to End Of Life 
: https://www.techpowerup.com/257319/amd-retires-the-radeon-vii-less-than-five-months-into-launch

Why bother anymore!

Makes no difference to those who have one already. The drivers will keep fine tuning but you probably won't get firmware updates. AMD did the same thing with the short-lived Fury line up too.

I have noticed that if you disconnect your VII from the Mac using the Menu Bar item only and then put the computer to sleep, the fans on the GPU won't spin up. But then your Mac might have problems waking. So this discovery is a solution and an OS bug at the same time.

This post was modified 4 days ago

MacBook Pro 2018, Razer Core Chroma, Power Color Radeon VII


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(@arden_shibley)
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Joined: 5 months ago
 

Okay yeah I know geekbench is lame and some people think it's useless, but I finally installed 10.14.5 after waiting to finish a project I had in an older version of Adobe Premiere, I installed the RVII and it's... not as noisy as I thought? But also performs more poorly in geekbench compared to the V64 Wave it replaced.

Sooooo yeah feeling like not worth it at this point. A $1,000 CAD card that's been sitting on my shelf for nearly 6mo and doesn't really outperform cheaper alternatives in any noticeable way.

Geekbench V64 vs RVII on 2018 rMBP i7 16GB Vega 20

This post was modified 3 days ago

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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palad20
(@palad20)
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Joined: 3 days ago
 

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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(@arden_shibley)
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Joined: 5 months ago
 
Posted by: palad20

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

"A lot of love" sounds great! 

Also I also suffer from the sleep fan issue. So bad; so loud.

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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kushNYC
(@kushnyc)
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Joined: 3 months ago
 

macOS should continue supporting the Vega 20 GCN 5.1 for quite a while since the new Mac Pros will use the same chip - so maybe not too bad for Radeon VII users.

On the other hand, the lack of new Radeon VII firmwares implies that we're not only stuck with our sleep-fan problems but we won't see any other future board-specific optimizations.  Pretty lame.  

Tom's Hardware got this strange reply from AMD.

@itsage can you get confirmation of this from your source?

This post was modified 1 day ago

2017 MacBook Pro 13" 2.5Ghz i7 16GB + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII (macOS 10.14.5 GM)
2018 MacBook Pro 15" 2.9Ghz i9 32GB Vega 20 + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII (macOS 10.14.5 GM)
ASUS ROG Zephyrus M GM501 2.2Ghz i7 16GB GTX 1070 + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII (Windows 10 Pro)


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itsage
(@itsage)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

This post was modified 24 hours ago

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Posted by: @palad20

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Everyone has said Geekbench is crippled on a Mac no matter which GPU you choose. Try an open source app like Luxmark that doesn't require an internet connection for results.

Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

This post was modified 7 hours ago

MacBook Pro 2018, Razer Core Chroma, Power Color Radeon VII


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tsakal
(@tsakal)
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Joined: 10 months ago
 

Somehow you all miss the point.

Apple is not a charity. If they support fully the latest cards they will never sell any of their top models to anybody other the top creative pros.

For example why they didn’t support egpu with tb2? The guys in this forum have demonstrated that it was 100% feasible. And by the way with Mojave the performance difference between the tb2 mbp’s and tb3 mbp’s is minimal. Only apps that require cpu muscle as well as gpu get a noticeable benefit. I have both and that is what I see.

Just think for a moment, today you can get a base 4 core mbp 13 4c for about 1700 or a base mbp 15 8c for about 2700 add a vii for another 1000 incl the egpu and you have enough power for more or less everything. 

Apple will use the t2 chip to control what is connected and accordingly throttle the performance. You will never get a better performance with the mbp 13 + vii than the top mbp 15. Especially with the apple apps like fcx.

if you pay a little attention to the various benchmarks it is obvious that they manage the performance of the egpu in order to keep everything under control, so they can sell you the highest priced product for your need. it is obvious that performance is managed. No question apple want to have fühl control of the gpu drivers. 

By the way I am not so sure at what point this behaviour crosses into anticompetitive territory.

if Microsoft did something like this they would have been crucified.

Our only chance is that they use one of these cards and fully support it so we can get the most we can out of it._

This post was modified 23 hours ago

A. 2.7 GHz I7 4 Cores, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2018 TB3 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb

B. 3.1 GHz I7, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2015 TB2 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

I would imagine it's going to be a while before they EOL their server/datacenter cards based on the same architecture, given that Navi seems to be heavily weighted towards gaming performance vs compute.  If truly high end compute cards were on the close horizon Apple would be putting them into the Mac Pro instead of Vega II.  I would also not be shocked, for similar reasons, if Apple didn't continue to use cut down 7nm Vega parts in other parts of their product lineup early next year, such as imacs, imac pros or even MacBook pros. 

Radeon VII is primarily EOL because it was marketed as a gaming card and it simply can't compete with a nvidia rtx 2070 super at $499 when it costs ~$600 to manufacture, and 5700 XT isn't too far behind it for gaming purposes.

2018 13 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809/MacOS 10.14.5 Beta
ASUS X99 Deluxe+Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 9 months ago
 
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @palad20

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Everyone has said Geekbench is crippled on a Mac no matter which GPU you choose. Try an open source app like Luxmark that doesn't require an internet connection for results.

@craftsman
Do you think that Luxmark is a much better benchmark than Geekbench? It's because of the internet connection? Can a Firewall help to avoid this?

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Joined: 3 months ago
 
Posted by: @oliverb
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @palad20

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Everyone has said Geekbench is crippled on a Mac no matter which GPU you choose. Try an open source app like Luxmark that doesn't require an internet connection for results.

@craftsman
Do you think that Luxmark is a much better benchmark than Geekbench? It's because of the internet connection? Can a Firewall help to avoid this?

Luxmark really pushes GPUs very hard for obvious reasons. Any 3D renderer maxes out the compute cores. Geekbench doesn't do this, it is a suite of short tests.

Geekbench gives results from a server. If someone changes parameters on the server the results will change. That's what Mac users have been reporting. They have seen scores drop by 20%+ even if they didn't change their hardware or software.

Posted by: @ningauble77
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

I would imagine it's going to be a while before they EOL their server/datacenter cards based on the same architecture, given that Navi seems to be heavily weighted towards gaming performance vs compute.  If truly high end compute cards were on the close horizon Apple would be putting them into the Mac Pro instead of Vega II.  I would also not be shocked, for similar reasons, if Apple didn't continue to use cut down 7nm Vega parts in other parts of their product lineup early next year, such as imacs, imac pros or even MacBook pros. 

Radeon VII is primarily EOL because it was marketed as a gaming card and it simply can't compete with a nvidia rtx 2070 super at $499 when it costs ~$600 to manufacture, and 5700 XT isn't too far behind it for gaming purposes.

EOL just means manufacturing is winding down. The first series will wind down quicker than the second obviously. Drivers will continue to be tweaked until they can't be tweaked anymore.

The VII was marketed as an 'all purpose' card. A consumer version of the Instinct MI60. Its overall compute performance is far ahead of the 2070 Super.

I can imagine that 5800/5900 will match the VII's compute performance, but only after the RDNA drivers have been optimised.

Posted by: @tsakal

Apple will use the t2 chip to control what is connected and accordingly throttle the performance. You will never get a better performance with the mbp 13 + vii than the top mbp 15. Especially with the apple apps like fcx.

That has nothing to do with 'T2 throttling' graphics performance. The T2 doesn't control GPU clock speeds, the graphics card has that locked in firmware. If your 13" MacBook Pro is slower than the 15" it's because the GPU leans more on the CPUs to feed it data in some apps. Users typically call that a 'CPU bound app'.

This post was modified 7 hours ago

MacBook Pro 2018, Razer Core Chroma, Power Color Radeon VII


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