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Radeon VII compatible with Mac?
 

Radeon VII compatible with Mac?  

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Kelvin Tan
(@kelvin_tan)
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With the limited and no-margin rumours of the Radeon VII (rebrwnded instinct cards), don't think Apple will include them for WWDC 2019. It's most probably straight to Navi.

Since there's hardly any margins I don't think AMD will sell it to Apple too since they'll ask for a hefty discount - they can jolly well sell the instinct/Pro cards or use it to jumpstart Navi adoption.

That is a little worrying, as the Radeon VII might not have Apple's attention on support provision. I mean:

  1. Benchmarks of rumoured Navi cards have shown to have improvements on graphics and power consumption at the expense of compute.
  2. Even Radeon VII right now does not offer that much more compute advantage in general mainstream apps.
  3. Moving into Navi directly will allow Apple to push Metal 2 faster and further, especially with gamers etc since it's the benchmark they show on the slides (2x better graphics).
  4. Users who does heavy compute honestly is in Linux or Windows and probably running NVIDIA.
  5. Limited run of Radeon VII chips. I bought direct from the distributor and they mentioned luckily I sent in the card for RMA early because the whole country (major south East Asian country) got below 500 cards with no restock notice.
This post was modified 7 months ago

X1 Yoga Gen3, X1 Tablet Gen 3, MacBook Pro 15" 2018
Razer Core X / Mantiz Venus
Asrock Radeon VII, Zotac Nvidia 1080Ti Amp Core Extreme, Powercolor Vega 56 reference (flashed to V64 bios)


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@kelvin_tan Well, they are definitely working on a Vega 20 driver, if that weren't the case, the device id won't appear in the other files and it wouldn't be possible to use the driver for our card doing the injection. I think that it is planned, maybe a new Mac pro/iMac Pro will use a Vega20 GPU.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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Posted by: Kelvin Tan
  1. Users who does heavy compute honestly is in Linux or Windows and probably running NVIDIA.
  2.  

Which is plainly stupid, because AMD cards heavily outperform nVidia cards in computing, unless you want to spend 8000$ for a Titan Volta, GP100 or such overprized thing.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Kelvin Tan
(@kelvin_tan)
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Posted by: OliverB
Posted by: Kelvin Tan
  1. Users who does heavy compute honestly is in Linux or Windows and probably running NVIDIA.
  2.  

Which is plainly stupid, because AMD cards heavily outperform nVidia cards in computing, unless you want to spend 8000$ for a Titan Volta, GP100 or such overprized thing.

Unfortunately it's the momentum for CUDA and software optimizations. In the engineering industry which I'm in, most are running P5000s or P6000s, but that's professional visualisation.

Local universities which my field of work takes me into runs mostly NVIDIA, with supercomputing clusters running Threadrippers + Voltas/Titans.

I do agree, general hobbyist computing would be better off with AMD, but no IT procurement manager will stick his or her neck out and recommend AMD for industry use at this point in time given lots of software is still optimised for CUDA.

This post was modified 7 months ago

X1 Yoga Gen3, X1 Tablet Gen 3, MacBook Pro 15" 2018
Razer Core X / Mantiz Venus
Asrock Radeon VII, Zotac Nvidia 1080Ti Amp Core Extreme, Powercolor Vega 56 reference (flashed to V64 bios)


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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Kelvin Tan
Posted by: OliverB
Posted by: Kelvin Tan
  1. Users who does heavy compute honestly is in Linux or Windows and probably running NVIDIA.
  2.  

Which is plainly stupid, because AMD cards heavily outperform nVidia cards in computing, unless you want to spend 8000$ for a Titan Volta, GP100 or such overprized thing.

Unfortunately it's the momentum for CUDA and software optimizations. In the engineering industry which I'm in, most are running P5000s or P6000s, but that's professional visualisation.

Local universities which my field of work takes me into runs mostly NVIDIA, with supercomputing clusters running Threadrippers + Voltas/Titans.

I do agree, general hobbyist computing would be better off with AMD, but no IT procurement manager will stick his or her neck out and recommend AMD for industry use at this point in time given lots of software is still optimised for CUDA.

Most software are implementing OpenCL or Metal at least for macOS side so I would not say “tons”


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

@itsage

Will Akitio Node Pro support Radeon VII with stock PSU? it think it should since it can give 400W to GPU.


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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itsage
(@itsage)
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@ikir AKiTiO Node Pro should be able to handle the Radeon VII fine.

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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
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New beta is out, any good news?


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@ikir i installed it and you still need to inject the kext to make i work, not sure if true but so far it feels more stable than other betas.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
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Posted by: Juan C. Yunis

@ikir i installed it and you still need to inject the kext to make i work, not sure if true but so far it feels more stable than other betas.

Promising


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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(@herbie_knann)
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Joined: 7 months ago
 

Can confirm Radeon VII is flying with Mac OS 10.14.4 beta 6 FCPX Macbook 2017 15" w/Razer Core X plus kext inject. knocking out h264 render as we speak at lightning speed (well, relatively) https://imgur.com/N0EjBxJ

Thanks for the help btw. These communities are precious...

10.14.4 beta 6 Seems to freeze playing video (regular h264), but within fcpx all fine? Macbook 15" 2017 w/razer Core X

This post was modified 7 months ago

Pending: Macbook Pro 15" 2017 Radeon VII inside Razor Core X EGPU currently MacOS 10.14.4 my signature to give context to my posts


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screendor
(@screendor)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

I'm a wimp so waiting for the official 10.14.4 release next week--but all good within FCPX?  I'm an editor and purchased the VII and a Akitio Node pro to help my full spec 1027 iMac along--crashes repeatedly due to graphic card issues.  Hoping those are resolved with the VII and 10.14.4.

2017 iMac 5K 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 40 GB 2400 MHz
Internal AMD 580 Pro 8GB; Akitio Node Pro + AMD Radeon VII


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itsage
(@itsage)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

As of the latest beta (18E220a), PCI ID 66af has not made its way to AMDRadeonX5000.kext so it’s unlikely native Radeon VII drivers will roll out with macOS 10.14.4 public release. We can continue injecting the ID into this kext until official drivers arrive.

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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Also, the fact that the imac Pro was refreshed today with what is presumably a spec-bumped vega 10 based Vega 64X, means Apple may not be in any rush to get Vega 20 drivers out the door officially.

2018 13 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1903/MacOS 10.14.6
ASUS X99 Deluxe+Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809


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(@arden_shibley)
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Posted by: Ningauble77

Also, the fact that the imac Pro was refreshed today with what is presumably a spec-bumped vega 10 based Vega 64X, means Apple may not be in any rush to get Vega 20 drivers out the door officially.

You mean RVII? Vega 20 is what's inside my Macbook Pro right now.

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
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Posted by: Arden Shibley
Posted by: Ningauble77

Also, the fact that the imac Pro was refreshed today with what is presumably a spec-bumped vega 10 based Vega 64X, means Apple may not be in any rush to get Vega 20 drivers out the door officially.

You mean RVII? Vega 20 is what's inside my Macbook Pro right now.

Sorry for the confusion, there are 3 underlying vega chip architectures from AMD, Vega 10, Vega 12 and Vega 20.
Vega 10 and 12 are on a 14nm process, and Vega 20 is on a 7nm process.

Vega 10 and Vega 12 are very similar, I don't know what the difference between them is, perhaps because Vega 12 is mobile-only.

The names of the Vega 10 and 12 based gpus include the number of execution units they contain:
Vega 56 has 56 units, Vega 48 has 48 units, etc.

The confusion is the Radeon Vega Pro 20 chip in the 15" MacBook Pros is actually based on the "Vega 12 Architecture".  It is a 14 nm Vega 12 chip with 20 Compute execution units.

Radeon VII is a 7nm chip based on the "Vega 20 Architecture", and the underlying design is different than the other Vega GPU's launched so far.  It is the only Vega 20 Based design released so far for consumer-oriented cards.  It has 60 execution units but this is not part of the actual product name to avoid comparison with the Vega 10 devices which are not directly comparable (it is substantially faster than Radeon Vega 64 cards with 64 execution units).

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 13 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1903/MacOS 10.14.6
ASUS X99 Deluxe+Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809


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(@arden_shibley)
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Joined: 8 months ago
 

Oh damn. Yeah, confusing for sure. Why use numbers that coincide with number of compute units, and if you're gonna do it either go full ham or don't at all. Thanks for the explanation!

Sooo I'm wondering (with my 2018 15" rMBP Vega Pro 20 and Razer Core X) do I bother going with a beta release to get those RVII gains [for video editing mainly]? or do I hold on for public release then kext? Or wait til it's all hoity toity public drivers?

Edit: This is my main machine, I'm on it nearly every day and run a mildly specific list of software on a regular basis. Premiere, Photoshop, Acrobat, Alfred, Drobo, Backblaze, Google Drive Sync. 

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

I would at the very least wait until the general consensus on this board is that the Radeon VII drivers are stable, and even then I would be very reluctant to install a beta OS on a mission critical machine.

2018 13 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1903/MacOS 10.14.6
ASUS X99 Deluxe+Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1809


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(@arden_shibley)
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I do really love my Core X as a paperweight.. super effective, weighing in at 8.88 kg (19.5 lb) with RVII!

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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Joined: 12 months ago
 
Posted by: Arden Shibley

I do really love my Core X as a paperweight.. super effective, weighing in at 8.88 kg (19.5 lb) with RVII!

If you have a Razer Core X, you should put an OC Vega 64 in it, you get at least the same performance and no problems in MacOSX at all. Only if you do scientific computing with double precision you have an advantage with the Radeon VII, but not with normal workload.

(If you want to game the best choice is Bootcamp + GTX1080Ti, but this doesn't look your primary task).

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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(@arden_shibley)
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Posted by: OliverB

If you have a Razer Core X, you should put an OC Vega 64 in it, you get at least the same performance and no problems in MacOSX at all. Only if you do scientific computing with double precision you have an advantage with the Radeon VII, but not with normal workload.

(If you want to game the best choice is Bootcamp + GTX1080Ti, but this doesn't look your primary task).

Can anyone corroborate? VII worth it for a content creator vs Vega 64 OC?

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@arden_shibley well, current support for RVII is pretty bad, you have to inject the kext to make it work and it looks that it won't be available for the public release. If you can wait for proper support then yeah it would be better than Vega 64.

For Windows, well, you have a card that potentially performs better "30% faster" than Vega 64 and also "works" with Mac. I did see a big improvements in all the games i play compared to my old limited edition Vega 64, but @oliverb and some guys here are having issues with the performance of the card. For all the games i play with it, the only one that i didn't see an improvement compared to Vega 64, was AC: Odyssey, but that game is known to be a CPU hog.

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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(@arden_shibley)
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Hmmmm. Borderline.. There's a Vega 64 WC available on Kijiji in my city for $700 CAD ($525 USD), I'd be selling my Radeon VII and getting that instead, gaining like 1.5mo of fast performance, losing out on fastER performance down the road once VII reaches public eGPU release, and losing some money as well on reselling one of the cards. 

Maybe buy the 64WC for now and hold on to VII until it works? Even if the 64 costs me $150 on the re-sell, that's a pretty cheap rental for a month or more, considering typical theoretical rental price on a $500 item would be $10-15 a day.

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@arden_shibley yeah, it doesn't sound too bad. If you are happy with that, then go ahead. Better to have something that works and will make you more productive than waiting for final working solution and having a huge paperweight next to your mac.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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screendor
(@screendor)
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Well, that is precisely my situation.  Waiting to use my brand spanking new Akitio Node Pro and Radeon 7 for my video editing rig--running FCPX.  Y'all have more knowledge about this than me but--IF the Radeon 7 works fine with the official 10.14.4 OS, would it not be better for video rending/exporting that the other option Vega 64 Frontier Edition?  That was my hope when I got it.  Any thoughts, condolences appreciated.

2017 iMac 5K 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 40 GB 2400 MHz
Internal AMD 580 Pro 8GB; Akitio Node Pro + AMD Radeon VII


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(@arden_shibley)
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Posted by: screendor

Well, that is precisely my situation.  Waiting to use my brand spanking new Akitio Node Pro and Radeon 7 for my video editing rig--running FCPX.  Y'all have more knowledge about this than me but--IF the Radeon 7 works fine with the official 10.14.4 OS, would it not be better for video rending/exporting that the other option Vega 64 Frontier Edition?  That was my hope when I got it.  Any thoughts, condolences appreciated.

That's how I'm feeling, but there's also a chance it won't have drivers and we'll be waiting at LEAST a month. If you can find a local Vega anything, really, it might be worth eating the resale loss on the used market (hey you could get lucky and break even or even make $10 or something depending) to put one in your Node Pro and get to work, vs paper-weighting it, like me, at least til March 25th, if not longer.

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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screendor
(@screendor)
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Yeah, it's a tough decision @arden_shibley  Think I'll wait until the 25th and see what's what.  Maybe try the kext trick--which I've never done—and see how it works.

2017 iMac 5K 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 40 GB 2400 MHz
Internal AMD 580 Pro 8GB; Akitio Node Pro + AMD Radeon VII


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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Posted by: Juan C. Yunis

...I did see a big improvements in all the games i play compared to my old limited edition Vega 64, but @oliverb and some guys here are having issues with the performance of the card. 

@juan_c_yunis, "Issues" is hard word and of course it is still a powerful card. But it's not as they say, an equal to a GTX1080Ti on gaming. No, this is not true, not for eGPU setups. They obviously didn't have a good GTX1080Ti to compare (if any at all). From my extensive tests it's something in between of a non-OC Vega 56 and a OC GTX 1080 Ti, exactly where I would expect an OC Vega 64.

Of course, you may not forget, its great performance on double precision, but this only serves for scientific tasks. Nobody buys a Tesla Volta for gaming, do they?

@arden_shibley, it's a hard decision, but nothing is final. I like the idea of having multiple cards, I have a lot of cards.

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@oliverb lol, let's say minor/weird problems with the performance. Also, I envy you having many cards lol, I had to sell them before i commit into a new one, so far I only have 2, the RVII and the GTX1080 Ti in my gaming rig. Honestly I would have go with the RTX2080Ti if it was supported in Mac, but the RVII was the "smart ~ only" choice I had, also It did help that it was bundled with 3 Triple A games.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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@juan_c_yunis, there is nothing to envy, I don't keep a lot of very expensive cards which lose quickly value, only two at this moment like you. The second tier is GTX780Ti or RX570, there is nothing amazing.
And... I have found a new feature: VSR, which gives me 4K and 5K. so the battle is still on!

Feature

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@oliverb funny thing is that i tested that (VSR) with Shadow of War (which by the way runs incredible too lol, getting about 80fps at 3440x1440). I was thinking that you had many cards because of your signature in your post "2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680"

This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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(@arden_shibley)
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Guess who... 

MSI Vega 64 Wave. I'm having a hard time getting it to spool up, it just cuts through anything I throw at it like a hot knife through butter. 😂

IMG 0338sm
This post was modified 7 months ago

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@arden_shibley it looks nice, but you should change the fan location and probably orientation. I'm pretty sure that Vega 64 has a full cover, so maybe put the fan facing outside as intake, make some test and then change the orientation as exhaust (still facing outside).

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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(@arden_shibley)
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Posted by: Juan C. Yunis

@arden_shibley it looks nice, but you should change the fan location and probably orientation. I'm pretty sure that Vega 64 has a full cover, so maybe put the fan facing outside as intake, make some test and then change the orientation as exhaust (still facing outside).

There are a few problems with what you're suggesting:

  • The fan already exhausts through the side mesh of Core X
  • The intake area is mildly restricted, but we aren't talking gale force winds, and it's a pressure optimized fan in there, so it can handle it.
  • The tubes coming out of the rad prevent it from being turned around. 
  • There is a respectable amount of flow, the intake being in front of Vega 64 (there's maybe 1.5cm clearance there) and then going above and beneath the card, being exhausted by the PSU out the back, and the rad fan out the right side. I tested it lightly with vaporizer smoke.. lol.
  • The fan pushing through the rad, through the Core X mesh is still very effective. I have no complaints with how it's working.

I've used some 3M Dual Lock to secure the rad in place, it just reaches past the screw holes where the fan bracket used to be to touch the base plate, and the Dual Lock closes that gap. Nice and tight, good clearance, just a little more hose than is necessary but hey, I'm not mad.

2018 15" MBP, 2.6GHz 32GB 1TB Vega Pro 20, Razer Core X, AMD Radeon VII (Waiting for OS X Drivers), MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Wave


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Juan C. Yunis
(@juan_c_yunis)
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@arden_shibley my suggestion was to unscrew the fan from the radiator and put in the other side, behind the tubes so it won't interfere. Anyway if you are pretty happy with your Temps then that's good.

2018 Mac Mini Core i7 8700B 32GB RAM 512GB SSD + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII


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itsage
(@itsage)
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@arden_shibley Nice setup with the RX Vega 64 LC running! I recall seeing a mod recently relocating the cooling fan behind the front fascia. You can do that for intake if needed.

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