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Radeon VII compatible with Mac?  

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itsage
(@itsage)
Founder Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
 

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: @palad20

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Everyone has said Geekbench is crippled on a Mac no matter which GPU you choose. Try an open source app like Luxmark that doesn't require an internet connection for results.

Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

2019 16" MacBook Pro (RP5500M) [9th,8C,H] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X Chroma) + macOS 10.15.1 [build link]  

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tsakal
(@tsakal)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Somehow you all miss the point.

Apple is not a charity. If they support fully the latest cards they will never sell any of their top models to anybody other the top creative pros.

For example why they didn’t support egpu with tb2? The guys in this forum have demonstrated that it was 100% feasible. And by the way with Mojave the performance difference between the tb2 mbp’s and tb3 mbp’s is minimal. Only apps that require cpu muscle as well as gpu get a noticeable benefit. I have both and that is what I see.

Just think for a moment, today you can get a base 4 core mbp 13 4c for about 1700 or a base mbp 15 8c for about 2700 add a vii for another 1000 incl the egpu and you have enough power for more or less everything. 

Apple will use the t2 chip to control what is connected and accordingly throttle the performance. You will never get a better performance with the mbp 13 + vii than the top mbp 15. Especially with the apple apps like fcx.

if you pay a little attention to the various benchmarks it is obvious that they manage the performance of the egpu in order to keep everything under control, so they can sell you the highest priced product for your need. it is obvious that performance is managed. No question apple want to have fühl control of the gpu drivers. 

By the way I am not so sure at what point this behaviour crosses into anticompetitive territory.

if Microsoft did something like this they would have been crucified.

Our only chance is that they use one of these cards and fully support it so we can get the most we can out of it._

This post was modified 2 years ago

A) 2020 MacBook Pro, i7-1068NG7, 32GB RAM, 1TB, EGPU Razer Core X, Gigabyte OC 3080 10Gb, Samsung 49 1440p UltraWide C49RG
Mac OS Catalina 10.15.7, Internal Bootcamp Windows 10 latest update previously W10 2004 pci.sys swap.
B) 2.7 GHz I7 4 Cores, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2018 TB3 , EGPU Razer Core X, Nitro+ RX5700 xt 8Gb, LG 32UK550
Mac OS Catalina 10.15.2, Ext SSD Windows 10 1903 V1 .295

C) 2.7 GHz I7 4 Cores, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2018 TB3 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb, Mac OS Catalina 10.15.2, Ext SSD Windows 10 1803

D) 3.1 GHz I7, 16Gb, 1TB MBP 13 2015 TB2 , EGPU Gigabyte Gaming Box RX580 8Gb


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Ningauble77
(@ningauble77)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

I would imagine it's going to be a while before they EOL their server/datacenter cards based on the same architecture, given that Navi seems to be heavily weighted towards gaming performance vs compute.  If truly high end compute cards were on the close horizon Apple would be putting them into the Mac Pro instead of Vega II.  I would also not be shocked, for similar reasons, if Apple didn't continue to use cut down 7nm Vega parts in other parts of their product lineup early next year, such as imacs, imac pros or even MacBook pros. 

Radeon VII is primarily EOL because it was marketed as a gaming card and it simply can't compete with a nvidia rtx 2070 super at $499 when it costs ~$600 to manufacture, and 5700 XT isn't too far behind it for gaming purposes.

2019 16 Macbook Pro + Core v2 + Radeon VII MacOS 10.15.1
Core X Chroma + RTX 2080 Windows 10 1909
Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3, Ryzen 5 3400G + Core v2 + Radeon VII Win10 1909

 
2020 13" Razer Blade Stealth (GTX1650Ti) [11th,4C,G] + RTX 2080 @ 32Gbps-TB4 (Razer Core X Chroma) + Win10 20H2 // inc Radeon VII & 4xGPU concurrent benchmarks [build link]  


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @palad20

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Everyone has said Geekbench is crippled on a Mac no matter which GPU you choose. Try an open source app like Luxmark that doesn't require an internet connection for results.

@craftsman
Do you think that Luxmark is a much better benchmark than Geekbench? It's because of the internet connection? Can a Firewall help to avoid this?

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680

 
2018 15" MacBook Pro (RP560X) [8th,6C,H] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Station Pro) + Win10 & macOS 10.15.4 // Navi vs Radeon VII vs GTX 1080 Ti [build link]  


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: @oliverb
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @palad20

If you run geekbench on the card in Win 10, you´ll see a totally different number.

this points to the drivers not being optimized for MacOS yet.

I think this card will be one of the options for the new Mac Pro when it comes out later this year. If so, expect it get a lot of love from Apple

Everyone has said Geekbench is crippled on a Mac no matter which GPU you choose. Try an open source app like Luxmark that doesn't require an internet connection for results.

@craftsman
Do you think that Luxmark is a much better benchmark than Geekbench? It's because of the internet connection? Can a Firewall help to avoid this?

Luxmark really pushes GPUs very hard for obvious reasons. Any 3D renderer maxes out the compute cores. Geekbench doesn't do this, it is a suite of short tests.

Geekbench gives results from a server. If someone changes parameters on the server the results will change. That's what Mac users have been reporting. They have seen scores drop by 20%+ even if they didn't change their hardware or software.

Posted by: @ningauble77
Posted by: @craftsman
Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

I would imagine it's going to be a while before they EOL their server/datacenter cards based on the same architecture, given that Navi seems to be heavily weighted towards gaming performance vs compute.  If truly high end compute cards were on the close horizon Apple would be putting them into the Mac Pro instead of Vega II.  I would also not be shocked, for similar reasons, if Apple didn't continue to use cut down 7nm Vega parts in other parts of their product lineup early next year, such as imacs, imac pros or even MacBook pros. 

Radeon VII is primarily EOL because it was marketed as a gaming card and it simply can't compete with a nvidia rtx 2070 super at $499 when it costs ~$600 to manufacture, and 5700 XT isn't too far behind it for gaming purposes.

EOL just means manufacturing is winding down. The first series will wind down quicker than the second obviously. Drivers will continue to be tweaked until they can't be tweaked anymore.

The VII was marketed as an 'all purpose' card. A consumer version of the Instinct MI60. Its overall compute performance is far ahead of the 2070 Super.

I can imagine that 5800/5900 will match the VII's compute performance, but only after the RDNA drivers have been optimised.

Posted by: @tsakal

Apple will use the t2 chip to control what is connected and accordingly throttle the performance. You will never get a better performance with the mbp 13 + vii than the top mbp 15. Especially with the apple apps like fcx.

That has nothing to do with 'T2 throttling' graphics performance. The T2 doesn't control GPU clock speeds, the graphics card has that locked in firmware. If your 13" MacBook Pro is slower than the 15" it's because the GPU leans more on the CPUs to feed it data in some apps. Users typically call that a 'CPU bound app'.

2019 16" MacBook Pro (RP5500M) [9th,8C,H] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X Chroma) + macOS 10.15.1 [build link]  

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kushNYC
(@kushnyc)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: @craftsman

Posted by: @itsage

@kushnyc I heard about Radeon VII EOL in late May. I don't believe AMD will provide any fixes in terms of firmware. I will keep asking AIB contacts whether they can share any knowledge so that we can hopefully fix the full-speed fan issue ourselves. Specifically it has to do with the USB-C controller [TI65983] GPIO signal. 

All Vega Series 1 and Series 2 are being EOL'd. 5800 and 5900 series is rumoured for release in a couple of months.

But let's just clarify here.  Whether or not AMD produces more Radeon VII boards, Vega 20 GCN 5.1 driver support will only improve in macOS over the next year since it's the same GPU architecture as Radeon Pro Vega II - which is good for Radeon VII owners.  We will also see continued macOS driver support for other Vega 20 and Vega 10 solutions since Apple not only supports these architectures within their own products (iMac Pro, iMac, MBP) but also for recommended eGPU solutions.

2018 MacBook Pro 15" 2.9Ghz i9 32GB Vega 20 + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon VII
ASUS ROG Zephyrus M GM501 2.2Ghz i7 16GB + Razer Core X + AMD Radeon RX 5700XT


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

There is a journalist living next to my home and he is a drunk, but this doesn't automatically mean he doesn't know his job.
I have this information:
AMD is well aware of the fact that the RX 5700 XT is almost as performant as the Radeon VII with half the price. Future generation will be more powerful. Do you think this is true?

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680

 
2018 15" MacBook Pro (RP560X) [8th,6C,H] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Station Pro) + Win10 & macOS 10.15.4 // Navi vs Radeon VII vs GTX 1080 Ti [build link]  


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wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
Honorable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

This is the latest AMD PR answer given when asked about R7.

We continue to see strong availability of Radeon VII in the channel for both gamers and creators.

The card is supposed to be retired but AMD still want you to buy one, strangely how much AMD will support a retired card can't be find anywhere.

Then if some still believe in apple good will, i wish them sincerely good luck.

Hope that a 700e high end card isn't used as mere paper weight when used as eGPU.

This post was modified 2 years ago

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 270X@4Gbps-mPCIe (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²

 
2012 15" Lenovo ThinkPad T530 [2nd,4C,Q] + R9 270X @ 4Gbps-mPCIe2 (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10 [build link]  


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
Estimable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: @wimpzilla

This is the latest AMD PR answer given when asked about R7.

We continue to see strong availability of Radeon VII in the channel for both gamers and creators.

The card is supposed to be retired but AMD still want you to buy one, strangely how much AMD will support a retired card can't be find anywhere.

Then if some still believe in apple good will, i wish them sincerely good luck.

Hope that a 700e high end card isn't used as mere paper weight when used as eGPU.

The card is fully in stock everywhere I look. It's not officially on the 'Xconnect' list of cards on AMD's website and neither are the 5000 series. But these cards will work fine as eGPUs if there are OS drivers and they aren't paperweights. Just because there is a sleep fan bug doesn't mean a card is useless. It hasn't stopped me from earning thousands of euros doing my work with the GPU acceleration. The card has already paid for itself and if I want to change it later for another, makes no difference to me. I buy a new Mac and a new GPU almost every year.

2019 16" MacBook Pro (RP5500M) [9th,8C,H] + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X Chroma) + macOS 10.15.1 [build link]  

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