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2018 MacBook Pro with Radeon Pro Vega GPUs
 

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mac_editor
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Radeon Pro Vega Graphics Coming to MacBook Pro Next Month

Apple also today announced new MacBook Pro graphics options that will bring powerful Radeon Pro Vega graphics to MacBook Pro for the first time. These new graphics options deliver up to 60 percent faster graphics performance for the most demanding video editing, 3D design and rendering workloads.1
 
Press Release: New MacBook Air takes flight. A snippet talks about the MBP's new BTO options coming next month.

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mac_editor
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Wonder what will happen to the thermals. Seriously.

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Eightarmedpet
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itsage
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Posted by: mac_editor

Wonder what will happen to the thermals. Seriously.

Do not recommend to use on lap.  😯

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nanoBit
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hate them so much right now. Got a 3200€ machine and after 3 months they release an update?!

Setup: MacBook Pro 2018 15" 2.6GHz Radeon Pro 560X on macOS 10.14 & Windows 10 (Bootcamp); Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 350 with a Zotac GTX1080 AMP! Edition


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Ningauble77
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Ya I'd be pretty annoyed too.  As for thermals, they say 60 percent improvement over the 560x.  The 560x is about ~2Tflops, so the new chip should be ~3 or so Tflops.  Vega 56 is about 8, so this is probably kinda sorta a Vega 28?  So maybe a smidge faster than Kaby Lake G with a 6 core cpu to boot.  Probably not awful thermal wise, but hard to say since there aren't any other vega chips in this power envelope.

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detunedradios
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Maybe this will be 7nm Vega? AMD's been saying that's coming by the end of the year.

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mac_editor
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@eightarmedpet Updated main post.

@nanobit Personally am not concerned about having upgraded to the 560x model at all. These new ones are BTOs which I could never afford anyway, and an eGPU negates any performance needs irrespectively.

@detunedradios The new options are:

  • Radeon Pro Vega 16
  • Radeon Pro Vega 20

Each with 4GB VRAM.

Update: vs. the 560X, the Vega 20 is 60% faster on Cinema 4D per Apple's tests. This is part of one of the footer notes on the MBP showcase webpage.

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nanoBit
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Yeah, sounds pretty much like the Vega20 GPU. 7nm would also help to get rid of the thermal issues because it'll be much cooler than 12 or 14nm GPUs

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Eightarmedpet
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Posted by: mac_editor

@eightarmedpet Updated main post.

Cheers, pretty exciting but I fear its just Vega in name... still... the Mac line up is looking the most solid and Pro it has in years... I still can't believe people think the 2015 MBP's were great machines when only the top one had any sort of real GPU!

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mac_editor
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@eightarmedpet I agree about your comment on the 2015s. Sure for some the ports matter I guess, but I personally think 4 TB3 are way superior I/O and with Quad-Core 13" the MBP lineup seems stronger (and pricier) than ever.

@nanobit 7nm makes sense honestly.

@thread So basically they are handsomely nuked Vegas.

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detunedradios
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Vega 20 confirms 7nm, so that should definitely help keep the thermals sane.

2016 15" MacBook Pro - 2.7GHz Core i7, Radeon Pro 460 4GB, 1TB SSD
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mac_editor
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There is also a white paper on the T2 chip:  https://www.apple.com/mac/docs/Apple_T2_Security_Chip_Overview.pdf

Dated Oct. 2018.

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itsage
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@mac_editor Nice find on the Apple T2 Security chip.

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mac_editor
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Off-topic, fun fact about the new iPad Pros:

Given the last generation iPad Pros approximately performed at about 9300-9400 on Geekbench, a theoretical 90% boost implies scores of 17K+ roughly on the new iPads, which is equal or faster than the 2017 15" MBP. Don't know about sustained loads, but Apple sure knows their silicon. With 8-Core (4+4) CPUs, perhaps it could be an indicator of what kind of hardware setup Apple thinks is the future, even for their Macs. With the vastly higher cooling and space afforded on the MBPs vs. the iPads, they could do some serious shit.

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realTrumpalumpa
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What I am really asking myself, will it still work in bootcamp with a egpu as before?
Should actually be the same. Windows logo will be stuck on boot screen and the there is the external display driven over the nvidia card.
What could possibly go wrong?

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mac_editor
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Per this:  https://www.anandtech.com/show/13532/amds-vega-mobile-lives-vega-pro-20-16-in-november

Looks like the Pro Vega 16 and 20 are 14nm parts. We will have portable heaters really soon.

Anyway, IIRC the TDPs on the current dGPUs in MBPs is 35W, and I doubt that’s changing. So a Vega at 35W. Apple is really squeezing out the performance per watt somehow if the gains over the 560x are up to 60% (at least on Cinema 4D). 

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Eightarmedpet
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mac_editor
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@eightarmedpet Not sure but let’s take one metric: OpenCL. On Geekbench a 1050 Ti in the XPS at maximum performance scores about 85k. The MBP’s 560X does 60k consistently. Taking the best case of 60% performance improvement, the Vega 20 would score 96k, placing it above the 1050 Ti easily. For reference, an RX 480 would score 120K, and an R9 Fury does about 100K (poorly optimized drivers on macOS I guess). IIRC on High Sierra even the 1070 does 120K or thereabouts (need to recheck this).

But, assuming 30% average performance improvement, we would see 78K on the Vega 20. Worth noting that AMDs typically fair better in compute than NVIDIA, esp. on macOS. I guess it’s fair to say it may perform similar to a 1050 Ti in general (but may do better for compute tasks and Metal) but at less TDP. This is back-of-the-envelope stuff so take it with a grain of salt.

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Eightarmedpet
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Cheers for the guesstimating... nice to see Apple taking GPU power a bit more seriously, although 1050ti is hardly a heavy hitter, and if I had just bought a 560x equipped MBP I Don't think this would phase me as I expect these to be very expensive BTO options and nowhere near as powerful as a basic eGPU still.

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Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

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mac_editor
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@eightarmedpet Precisely. We have to keep in mind that it's the same chassis/cooling so all improvements will fall down to Vega efficiency at lower clocks/CUs, unless these options have a tweaked cooling system - we never know: The 1TB iPad Pro has 6GB RAM while the rest of the options have 4 - so they might do something. The only impressive thing I suppose is the performance per watt as has usually been the case with the MBP dGPUs.

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mac_editor
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These BTO macs are now available. The Vega 16 is 250$ additional, while the Vega 20 is 350$.

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OliverB
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Posted by: Eightarmedpet
Posted by: mac_editor

@eightarmedpet Updated main post.

Cheers, pretty exciting but I fear its just Vega in name... still... the Mac line up is looking the most solid and Pro it has in years... I still can't believe people think the 2015 MBP's were great machines when only the top one had any sort of real GPU!

I still have my 13" MPB 2015 (next to my new 15" MPB 2018) and it is still a good computer. Paired together with the eGPU Geforce GX  1080 Ti it' actually a great and performant machine.

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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OliverB
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Posted by: mac_editor

...The MBP’s 560X does 60k consistently. Taking the best case of 60% performance improvement, the Vega 20 would score 96k, placing it above the 1050 Ti easily. For reference, an RX 480 would score 120K...

I find it always "funny", that the RX 480 is much better  than the RX 560, just for sheer model numbers. It's very strange to me. Can't get used to it.

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OliverB
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Luckily, I have an eGPU now, so my dGPU RX560 is quite enough... This way, all stays the way it is.

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mac_editor
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Initial benches are in:

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/20/macbook-pro-radeon-pro-vega-benchmarks/

Seems like previous guestimations were nearly on point with respect to Geekbench/OCL. It is quicker, but an RX 480 is still 60% faster than the Vega 20. So 350$ towards a Gaming Box would be a smarter move vs. Vega 20.

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mac_editor
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For bootcamp users on newer MBPs, undervolting the AMD dGPU is very useful as well. Given how scalable Vega is, I imagine there should be some flexibility with the new chips. Even the 560X can be undervolted - allowing it to maintain maximum clocks at all times.

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mac_editor
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Interesting Heaven result there. That’s significantly higher than a RP560X (82%). Though it is only one benchmark. I’m sure we will see some more Vega 20 benches soon.

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moobot
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Video editing, ok, but what 3D is using AMD? Vray, Iray, Octane, Redshift- all require CUDA. The only one I know of was AMD's pro render and that's... just kinda so-so.

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