Benchmark: Internal Display w/ Vega 64 on Mojave???  

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Perseus0001
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November 11, 2018 7:18 pm  
As the title suggests, I am looking for Benchmarks (valley/heaven/Geekbench) on an internal display w/ Vega 64 on Mojave.  Ideally with a maxedout 2017  27” iMac, but beggars can’t be chooser.  

I’d like to pull the trigger on a Razer X and Vega 64 to use as an eGPU for the occasional gaming session, but I would have to use the internal monitor, so I am not sure what gains I would see.  I know I should probably just wait for AMD’s new cards next year...but we’ll i really don’t want to if the Vega64 would give me a significant boost.

Thanks for any input you can offer,

Troy

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steve500
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November 11, 2018 10:00 pm  

I've got a 2018 i7 13" macbook pro and vega 56. I don't think you'll find too many Vega 64 users on here. I can run some benchmarks for you and share, it'd be wise to figure you'll experience better performance with your imac with desktop class CPU.

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Perseus0001
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November 12, 2018 12:24 am  

Thanks Steve, I'd really appreciate it.

And if its not too much of a bother, I was reading this article on eGPU.io ( https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/pcie-slot-dgpu-vs-thunderbolt-3-egpu-internal-display-test/) and it seems like the article was showing the difference between a desktop GPU and an eGPU is almost non existent at 4K resolutions when your using an external monitor.  I wonder if that is also true when you use an eGPU and the internal display at say 4k or 5k?

The games I play are mostly blizzard games, and they run okay now (60fps) at 1440p with the graphics at medium, but with an eGPU I was hoping to play these same games at the iMac's 5k resolution at medium settings.  So if its not too much of a hassle, I'd love to see a heaven or valley benchmark with your Vega 56 at the maximum resolution of your internal display as well.

Thanks a bunch for you help.

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OliverB
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November 12, 2018 1:00 am  

Hi Perseus0001, it's true (and logic) that for high settings (resolution, details) on external monitors the difference between eGPU and Desktop-GPU vanishes. Or vice versa: The lower the FPS the less the TB3-Bottleneck will play a role.
I will soon post some benchmarks which verifies this.

For internal displays there is a similar (but not equal) argumentation:  They cannot handle high FPS as the data must be streamed back. They will always be lower in performance than with external displays.

macbook-pro-15-2018-i7-asus-xg-station-pro-evga-gtx-1080-ti
2018-15-macbook-pro-rp560x-rtx2080ti32gbps-tb3-asus-xg-station-pro

early-2015-13-macbook-pro-gtx1080ti-11gb16gbps-tb2-asus-xg-station-pro-via-tb3-tb2-adapter

early-2015-13-macbook-pro-rtx2080ti-11gb16gbps-tb2-asus-xg-station-pro-via-tb3-tb2-adapter

2018-15-macbook-pro-rp560x-vega5632gbps-tb3-asus-xg-station-pro
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Perseus0001
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November 13, 2018 2:16 am  

I don't want to derail my own thread, but as I continue to read more about eGPU's, I am wondering if this is even possible?

I.e. - is it even possible to use an eGPU to accelerate the internal 5k iMac screen at its native resolution (5k) while gaming? Or will the feed back be capped at 4k resolution with anything but the Blackmagic eGPU's??

Anyone know?

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joevt
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November 13, 2018 1:07 pm  
Posted by: Perseus0001

I don't want to derail my own thread, but as I continue to read more about eGPU's, I am wondering if this is even possible?

I.e. - is it even possible to use an eGPU to accelerate the internal 5k iMac screen at its native resolution (5k) while gaming? Or will the feed back be capped at 4k resolution with anything but the Blackmagic eGPU's??

Anyone know?

Nothing about the Blackmagic eGPU makes it better at accelerating the internal display than any other eGPU.

The feed back will cap the refresh rate, not the resolution.

5K 60 Hz will take all the host to device Thunderbolt PCIe bandwidth if more than 3 bytes per pixel is required, so you probably can't get 60 Hz.

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Eightarmedpet
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November 13, 2018 1:36 pm  
Posted by: Perseus0001

I don't want to derail my own thread, but as I continue to read more about eGPU's, I am wondering if this is even possible?

I.e. - is it even possible to use an eGPU to accelerate the internal 5k iMac screen at its native resolution (5k) while gaming? Or will the feed back be capped at 4k resolution with anything but the Blackmagic eGPU's??

Anyone know?

Yes it is, with the "prefer external graphics" setting under "find info". Source: Doing the same with my Lg 5K connected to my MacBook not my eGPU.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Perseus0001
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November 13, 2018 5:05 pm  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet
Posted by: Perseus0001

I don't want to derail my own thread, but as I continue to read more about eGPU's, I am wondering if this is even possible?

I.e. - is it even possible to use an eGPU to accelerate the internal 5k iMac screen at its native resolution (5k) while gaming? Or will the feed back be capped at 4k resolution with anything but the Blackmagic eGPU's??

Anyone know?

Yes it is, with the "prefer external graphics" setting under "find info". Source: Doing the same with my Lg 5K connected to my MacBook not my eGPU.

Thanks for the input fellas.

 Eightarmedpet, are able to obtain 60hz on the LG display when you feed the eGPU back into the computer that way?

My goal is to be able to play older blizzard games at 5k resolution at or darn near 60fps.  But if feeding back into the internal display limits me to a lower hz refresh than I won't have gained anything.  Right now I can play said games at an acceptable detail level at around 35fps-40fps, but that's just a little too low to be enjoyable.  I was hoping a vega 64 eGPU would gain me those extra 15-20 fps, but if hz would be capped at something lower than 60hz, I am not sure this is a rabbit hole worth jumping down.

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bootz
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November 14, 2018 2:40 am  

I don’t believe it will be possible. When using a TB2-connected GTX 1070 in Bootcamp with internal display, the frame rate tops out at around 24fps in 4k using Google Chrome. Even with the added bandwidth, 5k 60fps won’t be achievable. 

But all is not lost. Nothing wrong with 1440p on that size monitor. I believe it will scale well.    1080p looks fine on a 21.5 4k iMac display when gaming.

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konzentrat
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November 14, 2018 4:22 pm  

Hi guys,

I am thinking about a setup with a MacMini 2018, Sonnet 650, Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64, LG UltraFine 5K connected directly to the MacMini and another FullHD Screen connected to the eGPU. Does this actually work to get all the power from the eGPU?

Best, Peter

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Perseus0001
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November 16, 2018 2:53 pm  

So I was too curious for my own good and purchased a Razer core x and a Vega 64 GPU and tried it on with my 27" 5k iMac looping back to the internal display.  As you guys mentioned @bootz  and @joevt, I wasn't able to properly accelerate games at the 5k resolution do to a ~30hz limitation via looping back over TB3.  So anyone with this idea in the future...it didn't work.  Maybe something like this would be possible with TB4 or if apple let me loop back into the other TB3 port in the iMac using it in "a Direct Display" mode, but as things stand now,  I don't feel an eGPU is worth it for trying to accelerate an internal 5k display.

That said, just for fun I hooked up 4k display off the eGPU and things worked flawlessly.  I was easily able to max out the graphics on the games in play and hit 55-65 FPS at 4k resolution.  The only problem??? I don't have room on my desk for a 27" 5k iMac screen and a 24" 4k dell screen.

Seems like someone in my shoes has 3 options...

#1 - Sell the iMac, replace it with a fully upgraded 2018 mac mini w/ this eGPU and call it a day.

#2 - Keep the iMac and just enjoy it with the iGPU and gorgeous internal display.

#3 - Place the iMac under my desk and out of the way, using the eGPU to power the 4k monitor on my desk.  As dumb as it sounds I have considered this option, and though I will probably go with option #2, I began to wonder.  With an external monitor hooked up to my iMac, is it possible to "turn off" the internal iMac display?  And I don't mean turn down the brightness, but actually turn it off?? I searched the web and couldn't find anything.

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Eightarmedpet
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November 16, 2018 2:59 pm  

@perseus0001 I'm going to have to do some reading rio understand whats happening with the 30hz limit but I am fairly sure I get 60hz in windows, my intel tool tells me its 60hz and my fps tells me games are running at 60fps (or above) but I could be being tricked? I have switched to running everything at 1440 in Windows just for simplicity... and fps.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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Perseus0001
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November 16, 2018 3:04 pm  

It maybe be a OSX/Windows difference as I never left OSX.  On the desktop I didn't notice the issue, but as soon as I fired up a game at 5k, and looked at the in game FPS counter I noticed I was stuck at around 30fps, even when I had the in game engine scaling back all the visual details and my iGPU would be clipping along at 60+fps, the internal screen couldn't get above 30 at 5k res with looped back through the eGPU.  I am not as tech savvy as many of you, but I assume that it was a TB3 bandwidth issue?

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theitsage
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November 16, 2018 3:10 pm  

Have you thought about the possibility of using a 360° swivel stand and set the 4K monitor back-to-back with the iMac 5K?

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Perseus0001
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November 16, 2018 3:23 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

Have you thought about the possibility of using a 360° swivel stand and set the 4K monitor back-to-back with the iMac 5K?

Haha clever solution, I didn't know anything like that even existed.  That said, I unfortunately had to give up my office and my big desk a few years back to make room for more kids, so I am stuck with this little corner desk, and the iMac it self only fits if I slide it in at just the right angle.

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Eightarmedpet
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November 16, 2018 3:30 pm  

I tested one game with an RX 570 in macOS just to check it worked and was getting above 30fps for sure, see attached, and it often went up to around 45... I wonder if there is some trick you are missing (I'm also not too tech savvy so can't be much help).

FWIW I'd go the Mac mini route, as 4K will a fair bit easier to drive than the iMacs 5k.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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Perseus0001
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November 16, 2018 3:41 pm  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

I tested one game with an RX 570 in macOS just to check it worked and was getting above 30fps for sure, see attached, and it often went up to around 45... I wonder if there is some trick you are missing (I'm also not too tech savvy so can't be much help).

FWIW I'd go the Mac mini route, as 4K will a fair bit easier to drive than the iMacs 5k.

Hmm, I'll have to play around this weekend and take some side by side screen captures to see if I am indeed missing something.  That would be great if I am just missing something.

One of my hesitations on the mini is the ascetics of most 4k monitors.  If apple made a 4k monitor, i'd probably pull the trigger on a mini and monitor today, but my 4k monitor from Dell is so drab and utilitarian looking compared to the iMac's desk presence.  Dumb I know, but but I love a good clean looking desk.

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Eightarmedpet
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November 16, 2018 3:47 pm  

No, I'm 100% in the same camp as you... I want my machine to look as nice as it performs - thats why we are Mac people I guess..
Apple has confirmed they are working on a new pro display alongside the new Mac Pro (out next year) so you could keep your Dell as an interim solution.
I'm about to change desks too, to an even smaller one than I have now, you may be the type of chap who has an appreciation for these things... https://www.string.se/productdetail.php?id=13&LAN=2

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Perseus0001
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November 16, 2018 3:53 pm  

Those are some nice looking workspaces!  

For a moment I was able to imagine my self reflecting and working in one of those spaces... Then my cat ran in...Chased by our dog... Chased by our 3 young boys...and I snapped back to my reality!

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joevt
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November 16, 2018 7:09 pm  
Posted by: konzentrat

I am thinking about a setup with a MacMini 2018, Sonnet 650, Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64, LG UltraFine 5K connected directly to the MacMini and another FullHD Screen connected to the eGPU. Does this actually work to get all the power from the eGPU?

Get a 5K display that you can connect to the Vega 64. It should have a DisplayPort 1.4 input.
Planar IX2790 (27" 16:9 5120x2880)
Iiyama ProLite XB2779QQS-S1 (27" 16:9 5120x2880)
LG 34WK95U-W (34" 21:9 5120x2160)
Dell UP3218K (32" 16:9 7680 x 4320 - I don't know if this works at 5K with a single cable)

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mac_editor
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November 16, 2018 7:44 pm  
Posted by: Perseus0001
#3 - Place the iMac under my desk and out of the way, using the eGPU to power the 4k monitor on my desk.  As dumb as it sounds I have considered this option, and though I will probably go with option #2, I began to wonder.  With an external monitor hooked up to my iMac, is it possible to "turn off" the internal iMac display?  And I don't mean turn down the brightness, but actually turn it off?? I searched the web and couldn't find anything.

It could be "disabled" I suppose using something like DisableMonitor or SwitchResX. Though for me at least, keeping tech stuff under the desk is not an option (I have whacked eGPU enclosures quite a few times ;p), let alone something with a display haha.

It does sound to me that option #1 is most optimal and clean, I suppose, if you really need eGPU performance, the compromise of course being that iMac look gone. 

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bootz
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November 16, 2018 8:00 pm  

Not to beat a dead horse, but why not just use the internal display at 1440p non-retina resolution and pump up the settings to high/ultra?  You’ll get good performance and the image will be great with high end anti-aliasing. 4k/5k gaming on a small screen is very overrated in my opinion.

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Perseus0001
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November 17, 2018 5:04 am  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

@perseus0001 I'm going to have to do some reading rio understand whats happening with the 30hz limit but I am fairly sure I get 60hz in windows, my intel tool tells me its 60hz and my fps tells me games are running at 60fps (or above) but I could be being tricked? I have switched to running everything at 1440 in Windows just for simplicity... and fps.

 

So I ran a few games tonight and took pictures and it looks like in every scenario the eGPU is performing worse than the iGPU in the iMac.
Does that seem odd to anyone?

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Perseus0001
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November 17, 2018 5:47 am  

Hmm so though it seemed to perform worse in all of the games I tried, it does score better in Valley at 1440p and 4k... even if only by a little bit

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Perseus0001
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November 17, 2018 5:48 am  
Posted by: bootz

Not to beat a dead horse, but why not just use the internal display at 1440p non-retina resolution and pump up the settings to high/ultra?  You’ll get good performance and the image will be great with high end anti-aliasing. 4k/5k gaming on a small screen is very overrated in my opinion.

I think you are probably right bootz.  

Can't have my cake and eat it too...

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