Enabling TB1/2 Support on 10.13.4?
 
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Enabling TB1/2 Support on 10.13.4?  

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RianGray
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I know it's probably too early to assess anything, but I figured it would be better than not talk about it.

So before High Sierra, eGPU was completely doable on TB1 and 2 using the scripts. Native support also worked just fine till 10.13.4. That being said, unless Apple is trying to make a bold point –as in, they want to claim TB1/2 should not work with eGPU– and try to actively prevent it, I see a possibility on re-enabling eGPU supports on TB1/2 computers.

I guess the question really boils down to, aside from Apple's official support, would it be possible to have eGPUs working again on older TB1/2 devices?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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psonice
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I think a few people have looked into it, but haven't reported their findings yet (possibly they're still looking at what's changed in the final). I'll have a look into it too, but as I have an Nvidia card some drivers will be needed first. Not sure how far I'll get, I write graphics software, not kernel/driver type stuff. 

Another question I'd like to know the answer to: has anyone filed a bug report with sysdiagnose from a TB1/2 Mac? If so was there any response (other than "duplicate" at least)?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Chippy McChipset
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I don't believe there is any reliable method for making TB / TB2 Macs work on 10.13.4. The ability to do that was intentionally removed by Apple in this system version. So I'd say start with 10.13.3 and work your way down based on the techniques on this site which appear to be most stable based on comments.

Trying to force it on 10.13.4 is going to end in frustration IMO.

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psonice
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There wasn't a way to make it work on 10.3 either until somebody did some work and figured it out 😉 And we don't want to be stuck on 10.3 forever.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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mac_editor
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@psonice I have filed such bug reports and Apple has stated that only "TB3 macs are supported". It seems that the "unsupported configuration" mentioned initially is now truly - unsupported. I am looking into TB2 acceleration on the final build, just that I have less time on my hands, and no easy fix seems to be in sight as far as I've looked.

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comfycat
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As a tech-hungry code-aphobe, getting by on the genius and generosity of others, I must share my operating procedure with you all: have faith! If you can code, code; if you can't code, solicit; if you can't solicit, search; and if searching and soliciting hasn't yielded results, wait. Then search again!

We will get past 10.13.4. Some of us hanging by others coat tails...
I say thank you, in advance!

You've been warned.
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secretsquirrel
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In the netkas forum, someone claims that he found the solution for enabling TB1/2 support on 10.13.4 but doesn't share any more information on what he did or where to look at. Just that some hacks have to be made or found and that all hysterical antics about Apple abandoning TB1/2 support continued...

I'm not that deep into macOS programming, but surely could lend a helping hand and try some things out if told where to start or what to look at...

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Chippy McChipset
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Posted by: secretsquirrel

In the netkas forum, someone claims that he found the solution for enabling TB1/2 support on 10.13.4 but doesn't share any more information on what he did or where to look at.

If it turns out to be a reliable thing they're probably not telling anyone in order to figure out how to monetize the fix. If people will pay $50 for a TB3-TB2 adapter, they'll pay $50 for that fix as well probably. Especially trashcan owners. Of course, if Apple breaks the fix every new release, that "business model" won't work too well.

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devild
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Rominator's solution is modded EFI firmware for the card. He has this solution for 6 months at least but says nothing about it except bragging on the forum.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.


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mac_editor
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Posted by: secretsquirrel

In the netkas forum, someone claims that he found the solution for enabling TB1/2 support on 10.13.4 but doesn't share any more information on what he did or where to look at. Just that some hacks have to be made or found and that all hysterical antics about Apple abandoning TB1/2 support continued...

I'm not that deep into macOS programming, but surely could lend a helping hand and try some things out if told where to start or what to look at...

Deja Vu - those guys did the same thing for NVIDIA support on High Sierra, but never shared details (unless that has changed now).

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ikir
 ikir
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Posted by: RianGray

I know it's probably too early to assess anything, but I figured it would be better than not talk about it.

So before High Sierra, eGPU was completely doable on TB1 and 2 using the scripts. Native support also worked just fine till 10.13.4. That being said, unless Apple is trying to make a bold point –as in, they want to claim TB1/2 should not work with eGPU– and try to actively prevent it, I see a possibility on re-enabling eGPU supports on TB1/2 computers.

I guess the question really boils down to, aside from Apple's official support, would it be possible to have eGPUs working again on older TB1/2 devices?

I had many issue with TB2 machines and eGPU, some models not working at all. I hope Apple removed support for this reason and plan to add it back. Or at least not preventing it from working


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FricoRico
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I don't know if it related to this issue, but I also noticed that my Thunderbolt Display (LG 34UC98) is not working anymore. My 2015 Macbook Pro completely crashes if I plug it in, in clamshell mode. Apple seriously messed something up for us again.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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mac_editor
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Posted by: FricoRico

I don't know if it related to this issue, but I also noticed that my Thunderbolt Display (LG 34UC98) is not working anymore. My 2015 Macbook Pro completely crashes if I plug it in, in clamshell mode. Apple seriously messed something up for us again.

Interesting.. I’m using TB > DisplayPort adapters to connect my 2014 MBP to displays directly. Will test this.  Not surprising to see things like this though - quality control absent this year. macOS also crashes and shows “Your computer was restarted because of a problem” screen after rebuilding kext cache and rebooting. Lol. Sierra was so much better, but thanks to Xcode 9.3, I have to use HS.

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itsage
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@fricorico That means the blockage could be within the AppleThunderbolt kexts. When you have time please look into it further.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: itsage

@fricorico That means the blockage could be within the AppleThunderbolt kexts. When you have time please look into it further.

Could just be a graphics bug not related to TB blocking... who knows...

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goalque
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The TB1/TB2 blockage is done (at least partly) in AppleGPUWrangler.kext:

https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/wip-nvidia-egpu-support-for-high-sierra/paged/38/#post-32740

You cannot delete the file as it has dependencies. Overriding might be possible but I got a few Apple's copyright warnings in the terminal with -print-diagnostics option.

Proof of concept: delete the file temporarily, hot-plug the eGPU, AMD drivers load and Vega 64 is visible under Graphics/Displays with the TB2 MBP. No acceleration.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: goalque

The TB1/TB2 blockage is done (at least partly) in AppleGPUWrangler.kext:

https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/wip-nvidia-egpu-support-for-high-sierra/paged/38/#post-32740

You cannot delete the file as it has dependencies. Overriding might be possible but I got a few Apple's copyright warnings in the terminal with -print-diagnostics option.

Proof of concept: delete the file temporarily, hot-plug the eGPU, AMD drivers load and Vega 64 is visible under Graphics/Displays with the TB2 MBP. No acceleration.

Can confirm that reference to IOThunderboltSwitchType3 exists in AppleGPUWrangler. Though, looking at the symbols for the binary, it looks like everything is "undefined" - which probably means it is only referencing stuff. One exception is _kmod_info which seems to be defined, but perhaps not relevant here.

Update: Can also confirm that IOThunderboltSwitchType3 IS NOT REFERENCED in the AppleGPUWrangler available in macOS 10.13.4 Beta 1. Interesting.

Update 2Seems like a CrashReporter reference. Don't think it affects eGPU initialization. Swapping binaries did not work.

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goalque
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You need to you look through disassembler that makes binary more human readable. At this point I have to remind that reverse engineering, especially those kexts that begin with Apple prefix, is against Apple's SLA. Not sure how far we can discuss about this topic.

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mac_editor
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Screen Shot 2018 04 03 at 2.04.44 PM

Acceleration successful. Investigating changes. Will keep everyone posted. AppleGraphicsControl is/or its subtexts are the key.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: goalque

You need to you look through disassembler that makes binary more human readable. At this point I have to remind that reverse engineering, especially those kexts that begin with Apple prefix, is against Apple's SLA. Not sure how far we can discuss about this topic.

As long as we don't use a disassembler, I think we should be fine discussing. Any further discussion should be private as you correctly warn.

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PsyPryss
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Thanks for looking into it. At least there’s still hope for older macs.

Mid 2012 15" (Non-Retina) MPB GT650M + RX580 (AKiTio Node via TB3 -> TB2/TB1 Adaptor) macOS 10.13.4/Win10


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mac_editor
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Narrowed down to AppleGPUWrangler in the end. Odd I didn't detect this sooner lol must have not kept track of the correct plugins. 

This confirms that the change is intentional, not a bug that older TB devices aren't working (just in case anyone was thinking otherwise). Now, I'm not sure how to go about patching this, but am looking into it.

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mac_editor
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That's about it for today's testing. Rather fruitful. The war is not over though - an on-the-fly kext-based solution is what we need to build. And yes, that will require some disassembling to understand the nitty-gritty 🙂

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Sovereign
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Posted by: mac_editor

Narrowed down to AppleGPUWrangler in the end. Odd I didn't detect this sooner lol must have not kept track of the correct plugins. 

This confirms that the change is intentional, not a bug that older TB devices aren't working (just in case anyone was thinking otherwise). Now, I'm not sure how to go about patching this, but am looking into it.

Might as well be called AppleGPUStrangler.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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fr34k
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The problem with NVIDIA also seems to be rooted there. Panics and whatnot are pointing there...
Yep, strangling eGPU use is what it's for until bypasses are introduced to make the wire more slippery so it can't get a firm grip anymore 😁

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itsage
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I was able to replicate @mac_editor‘s success on the nMP. Hopefully he’ll find a sustainable TB1 & TB2 external GPU workaround soon. 

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Sovereign
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Do the improvements they've made carry over, such as the hot plugging? It's a shame they disabled this on purpose if TB2 proves to work just as well.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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mac_editor
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Posted by: Sovereign

Do the improvements they've made carry over, such as the hot plugging? It's a shame they disabled this on purpose if TB2 proves to work just as well.

Yes. Ejection mechanism also states eGPU properly. Seems fine.

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techyowl
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Let me know if you want some help testing on a 2015 MacBook Air 11” and 2015 MacBook Pro 13” I have some programming experience with swift, PHP and several other languages. I’m familiar with the MacOS filesystem and Xcode but not much deep level customization. Feel free to PM me.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: Blaine Miller

Let me know if you want some help testing on a 2015 MacBook Air 11” and 2015 MacBook Pro 13” I have some programming experience with swift, PHP and several other languages. I’m familiar with the MacOS filesystem and Xcode but not much deep level customization. Feel free to PM me.

Thanks a bunch... From what I see, for a kext-based solution we need C/C++ and if scripting and modifying hex - Unix and experience with.. well, hex.

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techyowl
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I’d rather try to write a kext based solution as that sounds like the better way but I don’t have any immediate c/c++ experience I do have experience with Bash scripting and C# but those are hugely different. As for Hex I know how to use a hex editor for finding occurrences and changing but it usually just breaks things in my past experience 🙄 Hence the testing might be where I should help. Just let me know because I am a programmer have been for the last decade.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: Blaine Miller

I’d rather try to write a kext based solution as that sounds like the better way but I don’t have any immediate c/c++ experience I do have experience with Bash scripting and C# but those are hugely different. As for Hex I know how to use a hex editor for finding occurrences and changing but it usually just breaks things in my past experience 🙄 Hence the testing might be where I should help. Just let me know because I am a programmer have been for the last decade.

Thanks @techyowl will keep you posted on how things are going and will let you know if I need a hand. I'm currently dissecting the AppleGPUWrangler. Cannot discuss what's in there, but there are just "less" hints in the final 10.13.4 build.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: devild

Rominator's solution is modded EFI firmware for the card. He has this solution for 6 months at least but says nothing about it except bragging on the forum.

In our private discussions (when 10.13.4 was beta) @itsage suggested that changing the mac profile (impersonation, for example, 2014 MBP will look like 2016 MBP to macOS - set by EFI) might work. This will require Clover. I have zero clue as to whether this works.

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Tico
 Tico
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Did you get it working on your 2014 rMBP or just your nMP2013? I'm wondering if the 750m dGPU give you problems.

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mac_editor
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Posted by: Tico

Did you get it working on your 2014 rMBP or just your nMP2013? I'm wondering if the 750m dGPU give you problems.

Don't have a Mac Pro, if this question is addressed to me. Yes, the 750M dGPU gets in the way, but I made a script to deal with that (should be in my signature).

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itsage
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@tico So far we have 2013 nMP, 2014 15″ MBP, and 2015 MBA confirmed working on 10.13.4 with @mac_editor‘s findings. These are TB2 Macs. The next system I’ll try is a 2011 17″ MBP, a TB1 Mac.

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