High Sierra Unable to Detect RX Vega 56 with HP Omen Accelerator  

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whitesin
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October 24, 2017 9:11 am  

Hey, all.

I've been reading couple posts in this forum and decided to go for RX Vega 56 card since its native support in macOS 10.13. For enclosure, I chose HP Omen Accelerator. Today I received both of them and wanted to give it a try... so I inserted the card into the PCIe slot, connected to PSU, and connected to my mbp 2016 15' with tb3 cable.

And then nothing happened...no message saying "external graphics card detected". It still shows "Radeon Pro 450" in About My Mac. However it did detect the enclosure in system report under thunderbolt. 

The "RADEON" red light on the card is on, but the fan is not spinning. Also the Omen Accelerator box comes with a 6 + 8-pin power cable and on VEGA 56 card there are two 8-pins slots. Could this be the case, due to insufficient pins?

 

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theitsage
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October 24, 2017 1:02 pm  

You need a PCIe 6-pin to 8-pin adapter to power the RX Vega 56 properly. 

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Sky11
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October 24, 2017 5:02 pm  

Please get a decent ATX power supply -  you should be able to find a decent 750W ATX power supply - make sure it has a single 12V rail. Newegg has literally more than 100 750W PSUs , for example EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2 220-G2-0750-XR 80+ GOLD 750W

Unfortunately HP's choice of the power supply automatically excludes any Vega support (why you think it is so cheap comparing to other eGPUs?)

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whitesin
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October 24, 2017 10:12 pm  

Thanks, your suggestion works. But will this undermine the performance?

Is it fine to power the card from a different PSU?

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Yukikaze
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October 24, 2017 10:29 pm  

No, it is not. You need to use a single PSU for your setup.

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Naragato
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October 24, 2017 11:10 pm  
Posted by: Sky11

Please get a decent ATX power supply -  you should be able to find a decent 750W ATX power supply - make sure it has a single 12V rail. Newegg has literally more than 100 750W PSUs , for example EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2 220-G2-0750-XR 80+ GOLD 750W

Unfortunately HP's choice of the power supply automatically excludes any Vega support (why you think it is so cheap comparing to other eGPUs?)

Over estimating how much is needed for the Vega 56.  It's max draw is 220w.  The 500w PSU in the omen is enough, even if you factor in the draw for the USB ports and power delivery, and consider that it's a bronze rated PSU, it leaves you with enough headroom to run a 220W (or 200 with the bios switched into the read only bios) GPU.  The fact it doesn't have the two 8 pin connectors is the only issue.

http://mailchi.mp/e6f8f339adcf/mantiz-venus-amd-vega-64. Mantiz running Vega 64. on a 550w PSU. Shock horror 😮

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Sky11
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October 26, 2017 11:39 am  
Posted by: Naragato

Over estimating how much is needed for the Vega 56.  It's max draw is 220w.  The 500w PSU in the omen is enough, even if you factor in the draw for the USB ports and power delivery, and consider that it's a bronze rated PSU, it leaves you with enough headroom to run a 220W (or 200 with the bios switched into the read only bios) GPU.  The fact it doesn't have the two 8 pin connectors is the only issue.

http://mailchi.mp/e6f8f339adcf/mantiz-venus-amd-vega-64. Mantiz running Vega 64. on a 550w PSU. Shock horror 😮

Here we go again. I already explained few times on this forum what is difference between what you call "max draw" and peak currents. You are saying that so called "500W" PSU in Omen is enough, based on your extensive testing with various loads? 

you cannot compare HP box to Mantiz - different designs, different power supply. Regarding Mantiz claims about Vega 64 - well, they are responsible for what they claim. They are not listed under supported hardware on AMD.com, nor any shipping eGFX box is approved for Vega64.

 

 

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theitsage
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October 26, 2017 2:04 pm  

@Naragato, there's a reason the OMEN Accelerator has one 8-pin and one 6-pin PCIe power cable. Sure, under certain scenarios the RX Vega 56 may work with the 500W PSU in the OMEN Accelerator. That doesn't mean it will be sufficient for all types of use. 

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Chippy McChipset
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October 26, 2017 10:24 pm  

Reading some of these Vega threads, I'm curious: are those on Mac buying Vega RX 56 or 64 doing so for gaming purposes? Because according to gaming.radeon.com, the Vega RX series does not support OpenGL or OpenCL, should your intent be to use it for creative workflows. Or if it does, they don't list them for some reason (seems crazy not to even if it's not gaming-specific in the case of OpenCL).

Seems like only the Vega Pro WX 9100 card (so far) supports the various standards Mac users commonly need in those kind of 2D and 3D workflows. Not sure what happened to the Frontier Edition card, don't see it on their "pro" site but for sure it would support the same specs. Unfortunately the card itself does not support Mac (Windows only drivers for now?) so that would mean Boot Camp and using Windows versions of the apps. It does support quite a list for Mac and PC though and at a current level. Here are a few of them:

HDCP Support
OpenCL 2.0
OpenGL 4.5
Vulkan® API
DirectX® 12.1
5K Support (60Hz SST)
8K30 (Single-cable, Single Display)
8K60 (Dual-cable, Single Display)
 

Some interesting news on this front
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11968/now-shipping-radeon-pro-wx-9100-and-ssg-with-new-drivers  

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Sky11
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October 27, 2017 1:33 am  
Posted by: Chippy McChipset

Reading some of these Vega threads, I'm curious: are those on Mac buying Vega RX 56 or 64 doing so for gaming purposes? Because according to gaming.radeon.com, the Vega RX series does not support OpenGL or OpenCL, should your intent be to use it for creative workflows. Or if it does, they don't list them for some reason (seems crazy not to even if it's not gaming-specific in the case of OpenCL).

Seems like only the Vega Pro WX 9100 card (so far) supports the various standards Mac users commonly need in those kind of 2D and 3D workflows. Not sure what happened to the Frontier Edition card, don't see it on their "pro" site but for sure it would support the same specs. Unfortunately the card itself does not support Mac (Windows only drivers for now?) so that would mean Boot Camp and using Windows versions of the apps. It does support quite a list for Mac and PC though and at a current level. Here are a few of them:

HDCP Support
OpenCL 2.0
OpenGL 4.5
Vulkan® API
DirectX® 12.1
5K Support (60Hz SST)
8K30 (Single-cable, Single Display)
8K60 (Dual-cable, Single Display)
 

Some interesting news on this front
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11968/now-shipping-radeon-pro-wx-9100-and-ssg-with-new-drivers  

Official spec of Radeon Vega RX:

API support
Direct3D
OpenCL OpenCL 2.2
OpenGL OpenGL 4.6
Vulkan

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Sky11
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October 27, 2017 1:37 am  

Teaser: both WX9100 and SSG will be supported by XConnect, but only with a specific partner eGFX box for Windows 10.

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Chippy McChipset
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October 28, 2017 6:01 pm  
Posted by: Sky11
Posted by: Chippy McChipset

Reading some of these Vega threads, I'm curious: are those on Mac buying Vega RX 56 or 64 doing so for gaming purposes? Because according to gaming.radeon.com, the Vega RX series does not support OpenGL or OpenCL, should your intent be to use it for creative workflows. Or if it does, they don't list them for some reason (seems crazy not to even if it's not gaming-specific in the case of OpenCL).

Seems like only the Vega Pro WX 9100 card (so far) supports the various standards Mac users commonly need in those kind of 2D and 3D workflows. Not sure what happened to the Frontier Edition card, don't see it on their "pro" site but for sure it would support the same specs. Unfortunately the card itself does not support Mac (Windows only drivers for now?) so that would mean Boot Camp and using Windows versions of the apps. It does support quite a list for Mac and PC though and at a current level. Here are a few of them:

HDCP Support
OpenCL 2.0
OpenGL 4.5
Vulkan® API
DirectX® 12.1
5K Support (60Hz SST)
8K30 (Single-cable, Single Display)
8K60 (Dual-cable, Single Display)
 

Some interesting news on this front
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11968/now-shipping-radeon-pro-wx-9100-and-ssg-with-new-drivers  

Official spec of Radeon Vega RX:

API support
Direct3D
OpenCL OpenCL 2.2
OpenGL OpenGL 4.6
Vulkan

Thanks for clearing that up. Wish we could find that on the official product page. Looks like they actually support a *higher* level of OpenCL and GL than the "Pro" cards? Or maybe they all support 2.2 and 4.6, but all web specs have different corrections that need to be made. In any case that's all encouraging (info you posted).

Here's what the RX series show:

 

...and the Pro series:

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irev210
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October 29, 2017 8:32 pm  
Posted by: Sky11
Posted by: Naragato

Over estimating how much is needed for the Vega 56.  It's max draw is 220w.  The 500w PSU in the omen is enough, even if you factor in the draw for the USB ports and power delivery, and consider that it's a bronze rated PSU, it leaves you with enough headroom to run a 220W (or 200 with the bios switched into the read only bios) GPU.  The fact it doesn't have the two 8 pin connectors is the only issue.

http://mailchi.mp/e6f8f339adcf/mantiz-venus-amd-vega-64. Mantiz running Vega 64. on a 550w PSU. Shock horror 😮

Here we go again. I already explained few times on this forum what is difference between what you call "max draw" and peak currents. You are saying that so called "500W" PSU in Omen is enough, based on your extensive testing with various loads? 

you cannot compare HP box to Mantiz - different designs, different power supply. Regarding Mantiz claims about Vega 64 - well, they are responsible for what they claim. They are not listed under supported hardware on AMD.com, nor any shipping eGFX box is approved for Vega64.

 

 

Really?  Have you tested it?

You are just making stuff up; my vega 56 works great in my omen egpu, absolutely no issues at all.

 

Works fine at stock, works fine over clocked, works fine in furmark, works fine gaming.

The vega 56 doesn't come close to the 500 watt limit.

Stop telling people to waste their money on something you have zero experience testing.

 

To answer the OP - you need a 6-pin to 8-pin pci-e adapter.  You can buy them off Amazon for cheap, just don't buy the Mac specific one, as it is using a different connector.

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Naragato
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November 1, 2017 2:22 pm  

@Sky11 as explained I have actually tested extensively using a Vega 54 and Vega 64 using a 350W bronze rated PSU.  What extensively means is using different work loads for periods greater than 24 hours.  Whilst the 64 did have some issues, the 54 never did.  The max head room is fine.

It looks to me that several of you just like to be right for the sake of being right, or back your friends without any quantification behind some of the statements.  I can prove to you that the Vega + Omen works fine with a 500w PSU, not mathematically, but empirically.  Just because I rarely post here, doesn't mean that you're some how inherently right.  You literally have no idea how much i tinker and mess around with hardware, given that it's actually part of my job to do so.  Let alone the fact I also mine a lot of crypto as well.

The only plausible reason you would think that a 500w PSU isn't sufficient is, if you're comparing it to building a PC, in which case you need power for the CPU, Mobo etc...  Which you do not need to account for here. 

HP themselves also state upto 300W TPD GPU's are fine.

Some other facts:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/omen-by-hp-ga1-1000-accelerator-shell/15776606/model/18161480/document/c05591674

Here HP don't list Vega in their list of support GPU's, but they do list both the R9 Fury X and AMD Radeon R9 290X.  I think you need to check the power consumption metrics on both of these cards, and Vega, before making statements about it not being supported. 

Some food for thought:

R9 Fury X Power Consumption Benchmark

R9 Fury Power Consumption Benchmark

R9 290x Power Consumption Benchmark

Vega 64 Power Consumption Benchmark

Now I understand what you are saying peak isn't all that matters. You're 100% correct, it's avarage that matters, and even in that case Vega is fine for the Omen PSU.

@theitsage with regard to your statement about the double 8 pin, R9 Fury X also has a double 8 pin as well...  It's rated lower than the 290x for power consumption thou 😉 (even thou it can spike higher,  but that also applies to the R9 Fury). 

As @irev210  says all that is needed is a converter.

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Chippy McChipset
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November 6, 2017 4:45 pm  

Has anyone had success running a 2016 or 2017 MBP + 10.13 + eGPU + R9 Fury card? Suspect it's not supported / not seeing much indication that it works yet. OEM page suggests Windows only drivers but no idea if Apple includes them of late (as with Vega drivers).

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theitsage
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November 6, 2017 5:02 pm  

R9 Fury has partial drivers in macOS 10.13. However, it's not working very well compared to 10.12. Worse yet, there's no workaround to enable external graphics mode for these R9 Fury cards yet in 10.13.

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Chippy McChipset
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November 6, 2017 6:16 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

R9 Fury has partial drivers in macOS 10.13. However, it's not working very well compared to 10.12. Worse yet, there's no workaround to enable external graphics mode for these R9 Fury cards yet in 10.13.

Thanks for the confirmation. I will note also for anyone who tries: this card BARELY fits in the Sonnet 350 / 550W boxes. If you're not careful you could end up damaging the bottom of the card or chipsets / wires connected to the board. Not easy to install or remove compared to other full length cards like the GTX 1070.

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Nooblord
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March 26, 2018 5:59 pm  

With all that’s said, is it ok to use vega64 with hp omen accelerator with 6pin to 8pin connector?

Anyone had success ?

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Chippy McChipset
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March 27, 2018 11:16 pm  

Can't speak for anyone's success but in my opinion the answer is no, the Omen does not have enough power to run any of the Vega 64, Vega FE, or  WX9100 cards reliably (i.e. in all situations). The only eGPU I've read about that should be able to do that reliably is the Sonnet Breakaway 650, and then only the air-cooled variants. Probably any eGPU where the power-to-eGPU total is under 400W (different from the total power of the PSU which includes power for fans, LEDs, Power Delivery, etc.), will not work or only work intermittently.

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Sky11
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March 28, 2018 2:33 am  

If you really want to run Vega with HP Omen, there are 2 things to do:
- upgrade the firmware on the box itself (a link to HP website was posted somewhere on this forum, and yes it really made difference)
- change power supply to like 700W or higher (sometimes you can get higher power PSU for a bit less money than less powerful one); make sure that the new power supply is single 12V rail (i.e. in the official spec it only says +12V, not like +12Va, +12Vb, etc.)

That should do it.

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Nooblord
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March 28, 2018 7:06 am  

Thanks, well, that’s a bummer.

Since I currently have omen with touchbar MacBook 13 I wanted something powerful that’s natively supported.

So I either have to swap psu (really hard to find one that fits where I live) or settle with lower end card.

Can Vega 56 be fine then ? Vega 56 tdp is way lower.
and there is this bios switch too: 
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-rx-vega-56,5202-21.html

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Sky11
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March 28, 2018 3:19 pm  
Posted by: Nooblord

Thanks, well, that’s a bummer.

Since I currently have omen with touchbar MacBook 13 I wanted something powerful that’s natively supported.

So I either have to swap psu (really hard to find one that fits where I live) or settle with lower end card.

Can Vega 56 be fine then ? Vega 56 tdp is way lower.
and there is this bios switch too: 
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-rx-vega-56,5202-21.html

This is not about TDP. This is about peak currents being handled by the PSU.
Unlike many other enclosures, I believe HP uses regular ATX power supplies - which are cheaper and usually easy available.

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Nooblord
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April 9, 2018 10:08 pm  
Posted by: Sky11
Posted by: Nooblord

Thanks, well, that’s a bummer.

Since I currently have omen with touchbar MacBook 13 I wanted something powerful that’s natively supported.

So I either have to swap psu (really hard to find one that fits where I live) or settle with lower end card.

Can Vega 56 be fine then ? Vega 56 tdp is way lower.
and there is this bios switch too: 
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-rx-vega-56,5202-21.html

This is not about TDP. This is about peak currents being handled by the PSU.
Unlike many other enclosures, I believe HP uses regular ATX power supplies - which are cheaper and usually easy available.


Actually no, not regular.
HP uses 140 mm PSU and larger PSU will block board power connector.
On top of that you need PSU with fans facing case side (not the ones with huge fan on bottom) otherwise your GPU will overheat.
So it’s incredibly hard to find one like that with decent wattage.

Anyway - I took the risk and bought 6pin to 8pin connector and used stock HP Omen PSU with Vega 56.

If anyone here searching how compatible is Vega 56 with HP Omen for use with MacBook and wants to go with similar setup (now that Vega is supported natively in MacOS): 
I can say for sure Vega 56 is fine with stock Omen PSU.

Absolutely no problem in MacOS or Windows, temps are good, power delivery works, card is stable, no weird bugs.
For Windows on Macbook I highly recommend using Yifanlu clover with dsdt patch, just install it on external windows efi - this will solve all problems with booting (with 2.5 ssd installed in Omen, you will get small tb3 bandwidth penalty, but that way you are safe from damaging your MacBook efi, and not wasting any space on internal MacBook ssd)

I wouldn’t go with Vega 64 tho, that’s a bit too much for stock Omen PSU 🙂

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