LG Ultrafine 5K+1080Ti=Awful Performance (Game Benchmarks)  

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jzfgs
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August 10, 2017 6:17 pm  

Setup:

  • 2017 MBP 15" 3,1GHz+Pro 560
  • Akitio Node w/ 1080 Ti FE
  • LG UltraFine 5K
  • Samsung 4K TV
  • Config notes: UltraFine via right TB3 bank, Node via left. Samsung via HDMI 2.0 on eGPU. All tests were run with the same instances of the games running in fullscreen windowed mode and shifted between monitors with keyboard shortcuts. I used the latest Nvidia beta drivers as of today, and the 1080 Ti had its power target turned up to 120% with no other settings touched.

Results:

  • Overwatch, 4K High (online matches and target practice)
    • Samsung: ~60FPS average, occasional 50FPS minimums
    • Internal: ~60FPS average, slightly more frequent 48FPS minimum
    • LG (1080 Ti): ~14 FPS average, 6FPS minimum
    • LG (RP 560): ~12FPS average, 6FPS minimum
  • PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds (PUBG), 4K Ultra (menu performance)
    • Samsung: 58FPS average, 52FPS minimum
    • Internal: 57FPS average, 49FPS minimum
    • LG (1080 Ti): 11FPS average, 4FPS minimum
    • LG (RP 560): 10FPS average, 5FPS minimum

Conclusion:

  • UltraFine 5K performance on the 1080 Ti in this configuration is almost equivalent to Radeon Pro 560 performance (at every resolution, 1080p, 1440p, 4K).
  • At 4K, internal display performance is similar to that of the Samsung. At lower resolutions, the gap increases slightly, but either way, anything is playable at 1080p 60PFS on maximum settings with a 1080 Ti eGPU (unless you're on the UltraFine, where 1080P is a struggle even on Overwatch).
  • If anyone has any questions, let me know! I'd yet to see any raw performance numbers of this setup, so I figured I would try.
  • At this point, I'm planning to sell the Node and just build a second PC with a TB3 add in card to run my UltraFine at 5k 60Hz on Windows. I have to disable/reenable my PCIE roots every boot to fix code 12, and much of the time the UltraFine doesn't boot up at the right resolution and has to be reconnected numerous times in Windows for it to work properly.
  • Tl;dr: if you're looking into an eGPU+UltraFine 5K setup for gaming, I highly advise against it.

2017 MacBook Pro 15" RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [jzfgs]^ // error 12 fix by reallocation to 'large memory' script


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theitsage
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August 10, 2017 6:55 pm  

Thank you for the sharing the gaming numbers and your eGPU experience. I don't understand the fascination surround the LG Ultrafine 5K.

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hipisean
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August 10, 2017 7:12 pm  

With your setup I highly advise that you wait to judge it completely because I would bet that your CPU is locked at 3.1 ghz due to an issue with speedshift not being enabled on our systems. Whenever a fix comes out you should see improved performance since not everything is optimized for multi cores. 

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jzfgs
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August 10, 2017 9:07 pm  
Posted by: theitsage

Thank you for the sharing the gaming numbers and your eGPU experience. I don't understand the fascination surround the LG Ultrafine 5K.

Of course! I’m more than happy to help those in the same boat.

For me, I bought my 5K for $650 on Craigslist before I even considered an eGPU. It was an incredible deal, and for everything other than trying to connect an eGPU, it’s an incredible monitor (especially for 50% off haha).

In my case, it would be a more cost-effective and performance-yielding solution to build a new computer than try to buy a new monitor of similar quality that’s compatible with the eGPU at this point 🙁

Posted by: hipisean

With your setup I highly advise that you wait to judge it completely because I would bet that your CPU is locked at 3.1 ghz due to an issue with speedshift not being enabled on our systems. Whenever a fix comes out you should see improved performance since not everything is optimized for multi cores. 

Correct, in Windows (not sure about Mac) it does not boost higher than 3.1GHz. However, PUBG never uses over 50% of CPU, and Overwatch barely any—at the settings I’m running them, each game is GPU bound. The 5K just suffers because of the bandwidth limitation here; other performance doesn’t seem too out of the ordinary 🙂

 

2017 MacBook Pro 15" RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [jzfgs]^ // error 12 fix by reallocation to 'large memory' script


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topherfangio
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August 10, 2017 10:11 pm  

Just curious: You said your 5K was plugged into the other TB3 port? Have you tried plugging it directly into the graphics card?

Having to pipe that from one TB3 controller to the other one might cause some performance issues.


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jzfgs
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August 10, 2017 10:18 pm  
Posted by: topherfangio

Just curious: You said your 5K was plugged into the other TB3 port? Have you tried plugging it directly into the graphics card?

Having to pipe that from one TB3 controller to the other one might cause some performance issues.

Unfortunately, this is not possible. The LG UltraFine 5K has only a Thunderbolt 3 input and there’s no way to connect it directly to a GPU, hence the performance reduction^

2017 MacBook Pro 15" RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [jzfgs]^ // error 12 fix by reallocation to 'large memory' script


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hipisean
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August 10, 2017 11:17 pm  

On Mac OS it does boost all the way up running Geekbench, but so far no fix for Windows. And as for that monitor, maybe someone down the line will try this card with better results instead of making the macbook the middle man.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11511/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-gaming-x-card-with-usb-typec-port

 

mid-2017 15" Macbook Pro RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + Win10
mid-2017 15" Macbook Pro RP560 + Vega56@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10


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jzfgs
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August 11, 2017 12:42 am  
Posted by: hipisean

On Mac OS it does boost all the way up running Geekbench, but so far no fix for Windows. And as for that monitor, maybe someone down the line will try this card with better results instead of making the macbook the middle man.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11511/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-gaming-x-card-with-usb-typec-port

 

I’ve seen this, and this type of solution surprisingly doesn’t work either. The monitor needs a full TB3 connection (which consists of PCI-E lanes as well as DisplayPort) to activate with a monitor.

That’s why TB3 add in cards for desktops plug into an x4 PCI-E slot, a TB3 header on the motherboard, and 1 or 2 of your GPU’s DisplayPort outputs to create a full-capability TB3 port.

Unfortunately, that means USB C outputs don’t work; there are many USB C to DP cables out there that people have tried with no success on the UltraFine. In all honestly, I don’t see a viable solution to this anywhere in the near future given the two TB3 displays that exist on the market. It doesn’t help that they’re Mac targeted either.

Unless Apple wants to make an easy way for their customers to use UltraFine monitors with eGPUs anytime soon a real fix is pretty unlikely.

2017 MacBook Pro 15" RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [jzfgs]^ // error 12 fix by reallocation to 'large memory' script


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Eightarmedpet
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August 11, 2017 6:44 am  

Ohhhh crap... I was planning on buying one of these Ultrafines as they looked to be the perfect solution... I thought eGPU's treated them the same as internal Displays so was expecting the same type of performance not this massive drop.

 

Thanks for this post and sharing your findings! Saved me a few quid and a big headache...

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10
---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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VOD
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Eightarmedpet
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August 11, 2017 8:06 am  

because the LG display only has USB C, that adapter isn't needed, no idea why they use the 5 and 4k displays in those visuals, adds confusion....

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10
---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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VOD
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August 11, 2017 8:13 am  

it has 3 usb-c out, but 1 thunderbolt3 in. the only question is, is the adaptor working in both ways?

like connect 2 DP from the eGPU <-> Sonnet Adaptor <-> LG Thunderbolt in to get 5k@60hz working

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Eightarmedpet
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August 11, 2017 8:25 am  

Errrr.... I don't know if I am going crackers, or just haven't had enough coffee this morning, but it looks pretty clear to me - one male USB C for plugging into your laptop, and 2 Display port out, its even called... "thunderbolt3-dual-displayport-adapter" ?

 

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10
---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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Eightarmedpet
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August 11, 2017 8:40 am  

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH now I see where you are coming from! I have a feeling that won't work, but if it it it would be great... worth a try OP?

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10
---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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jzfgs
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August 12, 2017 10:28 am  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH now I see where you are coming from! I have a feeling that won't work, but if it it it would be great... worth a try OP?

Posted by: VOD

i try to visualize my thoughts:

Unfortunatley that solution and solutions like it do not work; thunderbolt is only adaptable one way with that solution. It’s mesnt to break the two DP 1.2 connections out of a TB3; and that’s all it would do. Someone on another forum tried that and it didn’t work 🙁

Tbh I don’t normally give up on stuff like this but I am at this point. After all the hours and testing I’ve put into this, there’s really no solution; at least not anywhere on the internet haha

2017 MacBook Pro 15" RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [jzfgs]^ // error 12 fix by reallocation to 'large memory' script


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VOD
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August 12, 2017 9:36 pm  

Hm okay, maybe we will get a adaptor in the future. But this user Ultrafine had sucess with a familiar setup. Check out his implementation. 

 

BTW are you using a headless hdmi ghost adaptor? You should get the same performance on the LG like on the internal Screen.

im gonna get a 1080ti next week, will be testing it on my LG 5k and 2016 15' Macbook 

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jzfgs
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August 13, 2017 12:51 am  
Posted by: VOD

Hm okay, maybe we will get a adaptor in the future. But this user Ultrafine had sucess with a familiar setup. Check out his implementation. 

 

BTW are you using a headless hdmi ghost adaptor? You should get the same performance on the LG like on the internal Screen.

im gonna get a 1080ti next week, will be testing it on my LG 5k and 2016 15' Macbook 

I’ve read through that thread before; I haven’t actually run the same benchmarks as he has so I can’t assuredly say if my performance is different.

Also, I’m not using a headless adaptor, I just have an actual 4K display plugged into the HDMI port on the 1080 Ti for the same effect—enabling the GPU. My understanding is that nothing would be affected whether or not the eGPU thinks it’s connected a 4K display or actually is connected to one, but I could be wrong!

Awesome, let us know how it goes! The UltraFine 5K actually has a fair bit higher than ideal input latency for fast paced games, so I think my next step is to get a 144Hz 1080p or 1440p GSYNC gaming monitor and connect it to the EGPU. Less performance lost and an overall better experience :)!

2017 MacBook Pro 15" RP560 + GTX1080Ti@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [jzfgs]^ // error 12 fix by reallocation to 'large memory' script


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nada3hunny
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August 15, 2017 2:32 am  

Thanks for all the thread. 

This would help me to understand little bit more about Ultrafine 5k to egpu. 

However i still not get solutions to connect with egpu to Ultrafine 5k. I just wonder how did you get result on 5k monitor and i really like to know. I had great results on my mac(2017 13" MacBook pro + mac os and Bootcamp) with internal display, but i still not get any answers for my Ultrafine 5k with egpu and my laptop.

If you have any the best solutions or answer for this thread. Please give a "secret solutions"

because, i am about to sell my 5k and buy LG 27ud88 model. 


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August 15, 2017 3:07 pm  

Any thoughts if these cards could drive the 5K Ultrafine??

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11511/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-gaming-x-card-with-usb-typec-port

Assume we would need two of these if you have a multiscreen setup...for Davinci Resolve for example.

Let me know what you think....
R


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nada3hunny
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August 15, 2017 3:43 pm  
Posted by: Rene Gilvert

Any thoughts if these cards could drive the 5K Ultrafine??

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11511/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-gaming-x-card-with-usb-typec-port

Assume we would need two of these if you have a multiscreen setup...for Davinci Resolve for example.

Let me know what you think....
R

Thanks for sharing ideas. 

According to "jzfgs" the card will not be able to work with Ultrafine, beacuse it is not a Thunderbolt 3 type. 

Anyway all day, I was trying to find any solutions to save my Money and time(selling 5k and buy 27ud88), and i like to ask your opinion of my thought.

Thunderbolt 3 dock like Belkin, OWC, Caldigit etc, has DP port to support another monitor. Also it has power to turn 5k on. So what i am thinking is if it might works. 

Akitio <<>> tb3 dock (using dp) <<>> Ultrafine 5K and MacBook pro. 

What about this solution? 


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theitsage
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August 15, 2017 3:48 pm  

I wish Intel and Apple have provided more documents on Thunderbolt 3. It's very confusing for consumers. Let's take the Ultrafine displays for example. The 4K version is DisplayPort connection while the 5K version is Thunderbolt 3 connection. Both of them use the same physical connector in the shape of USB-C.

There's no logical explanation for "It may fit but it may not work".

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Eightarmedpet
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August 15, 2017 3:51 pm  

@theitsage would the port difference make any difference with eGPU set up and performance? Currently trying to decide on which monitor buy and I really like the Ultrafines but this thread is a worry...

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
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---
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nada3hunny
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August 15, 2017 3:56 pm  

That is what i have thought for all days. I could not find any single data for these. 

Anyway even though i am using 5k monitor, i uses max 4k resolution. (5k resolution killing my eyes) that is why i just need to support egpu and Ultrafine monitor to save my money and time. 

If i am free with money, i would like to use 27ud88 and 5k, but i am broke. 


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theitsage
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August 15, 2017 3:57 pm  

I would only buy monitors with standard DisplayPort input. @Yukikaze has a 5K monitor that he uses with an R9 Fury Thunder2 eGPU by pairing 2 DisplayPort cables from eGPU to monitor.

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JohnyS
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August 15, 2017 5:01 pm  
Posted by: Rene Gilvert

Any thoughts if these cards could drive the 5K Ultrafine??

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11511/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-gaming-x-card-with-usb-typec-port

Only MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt 3 + Mac OS can handle 5K on LG 5K. It's Apple patent to send two DisplayPort signals + steering in one Thunderbolt 3 cable (it's not a industry standard).

If LG 5K is connected through Thunderbolt to any other computer/card, or even on new MacBook Pro in Windows BootCamp it behaves like single DisplayPort connection, when only 4K is possible.

 


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ppm
 ppm
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August 15, 2017 5:25 pm  

It’s Apple patent to send two DisplayPort signals + steering in one Thunderbolt 3 cable (it’s not a industry standard).

I don't know that. If it's true, I'm sad a bit because I'd been hoped the thunderbolt 3 cable will take over others and GPUs will have TB3 ports in near future. 😭

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JohnyS
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August 15, 2017 6:10 pm  

I think it will, just like monitors with USB-C connections  are standard.

LG 5K and other monitors it's two different story's.

I hope Thunderbolt 3/USB-C port will carry DisplayPort 1.3 (with can handle 8K@60Hz) in near future, so the new graphics cards will use this standard with the most convenient port.


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ualwayaslose
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August 25, 2017 1:47 am  

I dont understand how you are stating the eGPU is being used when you are plugging the 5k Display to the Mac instead of the eGPU.

 

I thought the only way to get accelerated graphics was to launch directly from the targetted window.


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VOD
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August 25, 2017 8:15 am  
Posted by: VOD

Hm okay, maybe we will get a adaptor in the future. But this user Ultrafine had sucess with a familiar setup. Check out his implementation. 

BTW are you using a headless hdmi ghost adaptor? You should get the same performance on the LG like on the internal Screen.

im gonna get a 1080ti next week, will be testing it on my LG 5k and 2016 15' Macbook 

Dont like to say it, but i gave up fiddling around with moving windows in macOS just to get acceleration. Im gonna sell my Ultrafine and bought this monitor instead: https://www.amazon.de/Envy-Y6K73AA-58cm-Monitor-schwarz/dp/B01MRLQMFB

It works out of the box and I am happy with my setup now. Thanks again for theitsage for his guide under bootcamp

 

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Eightarmedpet
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August 25, 2017 8:25 am  

Despite the advice in this thread, I've bought an Ultrafine... lets see how I fare. Unsure whether I should put a 570 or a 1060 in my eGPU, 1060 was plug and play, still the winning bidder on a 570, anyone with experience of both care to chime in?

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10
---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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VOD
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August 25, 2017 8:27 am  

with my 1080ti on macOS it was very simple, bootcamp is another story...

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JohnyS
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August 25, 2017 8:30 am  

I gave up as well. I moved my 5K to work and install my old 27" Dell to egpu in home. Maybe in the future High Sierra + new Bootcamp drivers will change something.


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Eightarmedpet
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August 25, 2017 8:35 am  

It's weird it worked for the guy from 9to5mac... again, plug and play with no issues... no headless adapters or anything. I'm thinking of trying an AMD card for macOS (not that I would actually use it in macOS) and AMD's drivers work better for eGPUS (hot plugging etc) although I could have sworn I had an "eject" option in my Nvidia menu (?!).

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + GTX1060@32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10
---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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joevt
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September 14, 2017 7:47 pm  
Posted by: VOD

i try to visualize my thoughts:

The Thunderbolt 3 to Dual DisplayPort adapter doesn't work because the DisplayPort ports are output only.

Posted by: VOD

Hm okay, maybe we will get a adaptor in the future. But this user Ultrafine had sucess with a familiar setup. Check out his implementation. 

What is needed is a device with dual DisplayPort inputs that can output two DisplayPort streams over Thunderbolt 3. That device exists and it is the GC-ALPINE RIDGE Thunderbolt 3 add-in card. It's a PCIe card, so you need a PCIe slot. If your computer doesn't have a PCIe slot, then you can use the PCIe slot of another computer or an externally powered PCIe slot such as in an external enclosure. The IT-GO ADP-099-31 is a relatively inexpensive enclosure that I found to work. See #73. A 1x to 16x riser did not work (the DisplayPort to Thunderbolt 3 conversion would not start).

The GC-ALPINE RIDGE card will transmit dual DisplayPort streams over Thunderbolt, but won't transmit a PCIe stream unless the card is in a PCIe slot supported by the BIOS for the purpose of a Thunderbolt add-in card. You can get 5K resolution on the LG 5K display, but if there's no PCIe stream then you won't be able to use any of the features that require PCIe communication which means anything connected to the LG 5K display's USB controller: the USB ports, speakers, camera, and brightness control. Brightness control commands should work with DDC/CI as an alternative.

Another issue is macOS driver support. Nvidia macOS drivers have crappy support for MST displays. An MST display is a display that uses two DisplayPort streams - one for the left half and one for the right half of the display. This could be a 4K display (two streams over a DisplayPort 1.2 cable), a 5K display with two DisplayPort 1.2 cables, or a 5K display with two DisplayPort 1.2 streams over Thunderbolt 3 like the LG. Read more about MST at Using 4K displays, 5K displays, and Ultra HD TVs with your Mac. Notice that none of the listed Macs have Nvidia graphics. The support is so crappy that you need to use a boot argument to get it to work "nv_spanmodepolicy=1". For 5K, it's even worse. With a Dell 5K display, I need to turn it off and on after startup to get 5K mode. I haven't seen any reports of Nvidia graphics working with the HP Z27q 5K display or the LG 5K display.

Windows drivers don't have those problems. AMD macOS drivers have better support than Nvidia macOS drivers. I have seen reports of the LG 5K display working with the GC-ALPINE RIDGE card with and without PCIe communication.

 


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theitsage
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September 14, 2017 7:54 pm  

Welcome aboard @joevt and impressive first post. I have been looking for the GC-ALPINE RIDGE to use with my Test Bench. Unfortunately I have not been able to find one in the US. I wanted to use it for dual purpose. The first was to see if I could get a Thunderbolt 3 connection going straight to the CPU using the x16 PCIe slot. The second reason is for the Ultrafine 5K display.

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