[Petition] Apple must support Nvidia-based devices for eGPU
 
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[Petition] Apple must support Nvidia-based devices for eGPU  

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tbl777
(@tbl777)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

[Petition] Apple must support Nvidia-based Macbook for AMD-eGPU KIT, No discrimination

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/apple-must-support-nvidia-based-devices-egpu

From 2012 to 2014, even before, Apple produced millions of Nvidia-based devices.

Since high sierra, Apple have officially supported eGPU only for AMD-based or iGPU-based devices. 

Just for competitions between Nvidia and AMD, bad relations between Nvidia and Apple, Apple intend not to support eGPU for Nvidia-based devices, but Apple can fix it easily as long as they want.

In MACOSX 10.13beta4 and below, because of mac_editor's hard working, there's a compromised workaround. But from MACOSX 10.13beta5 and 10.13 official, Apple modified several hidden kexts of the kernel intentionally, so even a compromised one is not applied usefully. And Nvidia made the web driver totally non-functional for eGPU with black screen which apple official may just pop out eGPU notification but unconnected.

This should be solved long long ago by Apple, not considering Nvidia for the above reasons. But both did nothing!

late-2013 15" MacBook Pro GT750M + RX580@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO thunder 2) + macOS 10.13


mac_editor, Daelin, Rycco and 1 people liked
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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I'd love Nvidia eGPU support... constant Error 12 with AMD cards that I can not solve so resigned myself to only having the extra power in Windows/Bootcamp.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX 560 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node Lite) + macOS 10.15.4 & Win10 [build link]  


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tbl777
(@tbl777)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

I'd love Nvidia eGPU support... constant Error 12 with AMD cards that I can not solve so resigned myself to only having the extra power in Windows/Bootcamp.

I said that Nvidia-based devices should support for eGPU, not only for Nvidia card eGPU. The former is Apple's obligation, the last one is Nvidia's obligation, none of Apple's.

Apple have obligated to make sure their devices compatible for their technologies, such as Nvidia-based devices support for eGPU, just for AMD maybe even okay, but Apple never did.

late-2013 15" MacBook Pro GT750M + RX580@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO thunder 2) + macOS 10.13


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machsoftwaredesign
(@machsoftwaredesign)
Active Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Signed, but now that I think about it Apple may be wanting a true plug-and-play experience for the end user and they may be very willing to support Nvidia based eGPUs in the future as Apple is well known for not releasing technologies until they are “ready.”  Regardless, some of their actions do annoy me (such as purposefully disabling Nvidia eGPU support and/or making difficult to to use Nvidia eGPUs).

And there’s several more on the iOS side of things (that they’ve purposefully disabled or chosen to leave out for business reasons) that immediately come to mind:  No Split-screen app support/PiP for iPhones, no Apple Pencil support for iPhones, and no Drag and Drop on iPhones (as of iOS 11).  Maybe Apple Pencil support on iPhones does add additional hardware costs but the others are obviously business decisions because there’s no technical reason they can’t be implemented (since they already exist on the iPad); they just don’t want to cannibalize iPad sales.

But I’m sure Apple employees read these forums so hopefully they’ll come to their senses sooner or later; or at the very least fix the AMD on Boot Camp issues which they still have six months before eGPUs are officially supported.

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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Daelin
(@daelin)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: machsoftwaredesign

... as Apple is well known for not releasing technologies until they are “ready.”  

Did I miss something? 

Edit: @topic: signed 😊

MacBook Pro 15" 2017, AMD RP560
Devil Box + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X

Bricked thanks to rEFInd:
MacBook Pro 15" Late 2013, GT 750M

 
2017 15" MacBook Pro (RP560) [7th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-TB3 (PowerColor Devil Box) + macOS 10.13.3 & Win10 [build link]  


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NvidiusMaximus
(@nvidiusmaximus)
New Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Not to be a jerk but why would you set up the petition at whitehouse dot gov? That's not an appropriate venue for it as the government neither cares about stuff like this (nor should they), nor do they have any ability to enforce or persuade Apple to do anything. To be honest this entire forum is the best petition you could hope for because it shows a high level of interest for NVIDIA support, as well as all the details of why people want it and what their hardware setups are. This place is a gold mine for Apple and NVIDIA engineers as well as eGPU makers; there's no way they're unaware of it at this point. Every last one of them has employees reading this forum every single day I would wager. They may not all participate but they're here. Trust me. Smile

By the way there is no reason to think that Apple is not working directly with NVIDIA on this stuff as well. There's a tendency to believe that because Apple has started out with one supported AMD card and that they have tended to be AMD-centric in the past, that it's a signal they're not working with NVIDIA. This is not the case IMO.

Be patient. Spring will bring a lot of good stuff. 

 

Disclaimer: I am NOT an employee of NVIDIA, Apple, or AMD. I speak only for myself.

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

Chippy McChipset, tbl777, mac_editor and 1 people liked
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tbl777
(@tbl777)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: NvidiusMaximus

Not to be a jerk but why would you set up the petition at whitehouse dot gov? That's not an appropriate venue for it as the government neither cares about stuff like this (nor should they), nor do they have any ability to enforce or persuade Apple to do anything. To be honest this entire forum is the best petition you could hope for because it shows a high level of interest for NVIDIA support, as well as all the details of why people want it and what their hardware setups are. This place is a gold mine for Apple and NVIDIA engineers as well as eGPU makers; there's no way they're unaware of it at this point. Every last one of them has employees reading this forum every single day I would wager. They may not all participate but they're here. Trust me. Smile

 

IF only support for TB3, I can accept, But even before 2012 devices just only iGPU then can be applied, this is non-sense. When I mailed to cook, I had explicitly addressed this, This situation happened just because the bad relationship between Nvidia and Apple. Further more, Apple do not intend to solve this at current or before.

In safe boot and recovery mode, Nvidia-based Macbook supports for AMD-eGPU, this explicitly shows Apple prevent Nvidia-based Macbook support for eGPU purposely. Am I wrong? Apple for Nvidia-based Macbook either did nothing or blocked it. This is an Apple attitude for this problem.

Besides, I always demand Apple support Nvidia-based Macbook which is Apple's product, not petition for support Nvidia-eGPU but AMD-eGPU.

I just pissed off Apple and Nvidia for their irresponsible behaviors.

late-2013 15" MacBook Pro GT750M + RX580@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO thunder 2) + macOS 10.13


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Chippy McChipset
(@chippy-mcchipset)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I understand your frustration but you are taking past behaviors and jumping to future conclusions. Remember, everything Apple offers right now is a beta setup. It's not an official part of the OS yet. There is no way that NVIDIA would put in the effort to build the new Pascal drivers for macOS, and repeatedly update them, if they did not have confirmation from Apple that they are in the game and Apple wants to support them on eGPU (and maybe next Mac Pro) long-term. It may take a while to get there. Also I may or may not have some information from a couple eGPU manufacturers that directly suggests NVIDIA and Apple are working together as we speak.

Realize too that right now Apple only recommends ONE GPU - the RX580. It would be one thing if they said "All AMD cards since 2015 work on Day 1 but no NVIDIA!" That would be a sign of intentional exclusion, but here we have only one card. This suggests it was the easiest test case for them and the easiest to get working quickly and across many uses. They will build from that and add more AMD and NVIDIA cards as soon as it is stable and working to their standards. All signs: "Spring 2018"

That timing MAY also relate to next Mac Pro. Because virtually all 2013 Mac Pro users have asked for NVIDIA support once  they figured out all the apps that were supposed to support their dual-AMD GPUs... didn't. And weren't going to. And PC users were getting a lot more done in creative workflows using NVIDIA / CUDA. Apple knows this, Apple knows people want choices and want CUDA, not just AMD and OpenCL (which are also good).

Would be very surprised if in SPring we found out it's still all AMD-only. That would be the time for everyone to start email bombing Tim, Phil, and Craig until they submit to our demands. 😉

Thunderbolt 3 Macs, Sonnet and OWC eGPUs, 4K Displays, etc


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tbl777
(@tbl777)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Chippy McChipset

I understand your frustration but you are taking past behaviors and jumping to future conclusions. Remember, everything Apple offers right now is a beta setup. It's not an official part of the OS yet. There is no way that NVIDIA would put in the effort to build the new Pascal drivers for macOS, and repeatedly update them, if they did not have confirmation from Apple that they are in the game and Apple wants to support them on eGPU (and maybe next Mac Pro) long-term. It may take a while to get there. Also I may or may not have some information from a couple eGPU manufacturers that directly suggests NVIDIA and Apple are working together as we speak.

Realize too that right now Apple only recommends ONE GPU - the RX580. It would be one thing if they said "All AMD cards since 2015 work on Day 1 but no NVIDIA!" That would be a sign of intentional exclusion, but here we have only one card. This suggests it was the easiest test case for them and the easiest to get working quickly and across many uses. They will build from that and add more AMD and NVIDIA cards as soon as it is stable and working to their standards. All signs: "Spring 2018"

That timing MAY also relate to next Mac Pro. Because virtually all 2013 Mac Pro users have asked for NVIDIA support once  they figured out all the apps that were supposed to support their dual-AMD GPUs... didn't. And weren't going to. And PC users were getting a lot more done in creative workflows using NVIDIA / CUDA. Apple knows this, Apple knows people want choices and want CUDA, not just AMD and OpenCL (which are also good).

Would be very surprised if in SPring we found out it's still all AMD-only. That would be the time for everyone to start email bombing Tim, Phil, and Craig until they submit to our demands. 😉

IF Apple exclusively support thunderbolt3 AMD-based mac, I'm totally happy with that. Because this a technical problem not an artificial problem. Don't take what beta test to reply me.

For your non-intention,  Apple even support many older and cheaper thunderbolt1 mac as long as applied with iGPU and AMD, so this is not just non-testified, it's messing up with Nvidia-based mac.

What I'm asking is that Nvidia-based mac supports AMD-eGPU, which apple official released, please don't confuse me with Nvidia-eGPU, what I am talking here is nothing with Nvidia-eGPU, nothing with CUDA. Just Nvidia-based mac is discriminated from iGPU or AMD-based mac.

 

IF you think Apple realized this issue and rectified it, imaging possibility in Spring 2018, this is not possible. From the attitude of Apple, if no enough support for this issue, Apple will ignore it or you can try by imaging useful in Spring 2018.

 

IF you Apple honestly accept the suggestion and take efforts for it, there will be not problems here. But from what I saw, you are totally messing up Nvidia-based mac and nothing say about it, even a non-official statement.

 

At least, Apple totally completely could disable Nvidia-eGPU and turn Nvidia-based macbook into iGPU-based macbook, which is already an existed model.

late-2013 15" MacBook Pro GT750M + RX580@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO thunder 2) + macOS 10.13


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Agree petitioning the Whitehouse might not be of any use at all.

This thread is quite hard to follow too, reads like it's been through Google translate one or two times.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix

 
2017 13" MacBook Pro [7th,2C,U] + RX 560 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node Lite) + macOS 10.15.4 & Win10 [build link]  


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