RX 5700 XT on macOS Catalina 10.15.2
 

RX 5700 XT on macOS Catalina 10.15.2  

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Performance update attached to MacBook Pros with six core i7 or better processors.

Unigene OpenGL tests - same results as before. Lower than Windows and OpenGL soon to be obsolete.

Luxmark tests - same results as before. Lower than Windows and OpenCL soon to be obsolete.

GFXBench Metal High Tier Offscreen - same as before, around 200fps.

Geekbench tests - results collapsed in OpenCL (-10% down) and Metal (from 49000 dropped to 33000, almost -25% down) tests. At this point we have to conclude that Geekbench isn't worth using anymore. Test results continue to deteriorate on macOS.

Screenshot 2019 12 11 at 09.37.10
Screenshot 2019 12 11 at 09.32.53
Screenshot 2019 12 11 at 10.22.46
Screenshot 2019 12 11 at 09.24.09
Screenshot 2019 12 11 at 09.22.45

 

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(@keka_yobikov)
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Why performance so low in Mac OS?

Rx 580 have same score in geekbench

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QuietPower
(@quietpower)
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Thanks for the numbers

Is this drop just a geekbench issue?

Mantiz Venus + 5700 XT + DELL UP2715K + MBP 13 TB / MBP 15 TB / NUC8i5BEK


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beGPU
(@begpu)
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I can confirm the low GB5 scores with RX 5700 XT in macOS Catalina 10.15.1 and 10.15.2.  Been testing with MBP16,1 and Sonnet eGFX 650 OC.  MBP16 is 2.4/8GB/64GB/1TB.

10.15.1 METAL for 5500M 8GB: 27580
10.15.1 METAL for RX 5700 XT 8GB in Sonnet 650 eGPU: 33723

10.15.2 METAL for 5500M 8GB: 26963
10.15.2 METAL for RX 5700 XT 8GB in Sonnet 650 eGPU: 33742

For reference an MP5,1 with RX580 8GB in 10.14.6 has a GB5 METAL score of 39004.

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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@quietpower

This was the Metal score I got in 10.15.1...

 

Now I get 32-33000.

I have been doing my job on my PC for the last two months and today I'm working on the Mac with the 5700 XT. I'm really not happy with macOS performance at all. I've been spoilt by Windows and RTX graphics. It is very hard to work on macOS with having CPU throttling, sluggish graphics drivers, Wacom drivers causing CPU spiking. The new Mac Pro offers me nothing either. A $6K PC can destroy that $50K Mac Pro configuration at everything and for that massive price I could get several workstations for freelancers and take more client work. So this is probably my last year as a Mac user.

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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
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Need to test a modern metal game like Rise of the Tomb Raider.

anyway for now Navi drivers performance on macOS are quite bad, especially compared to Vega and RX 5xx

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MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my awesome Radeon VII eGPU
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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ikir
 ikir
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Posted by: @craftsman

@quietpower

This was the Metal score I got in 10.15.0...

 

Now I get 32-33000.

I have been doing my job on my PC for the last two months and today I'm working on the Mac with the 5700 XT. I'm really not happy with macOS performance at all. I've been spoilt by Windows and RTX graphics. It is very hard to work on macOS with having CPU throttling, sluggish graphics drivers, Wacom drivers causing CPU spiking. The new Mac Pro offers nothing either. A $6K PC can destroy that $50K Mac Pro configuration at everything. So this is probably my last year as a Mac user.

Usually it is the opposite, as yes I also work on IT in a big Windows based company. macOS is quite fast compared to Windows. CPU throttling happens in most computers, only workstation or big desktop can keep 100% cpu performance for long time. Saying that Mac Pro is nothing special makes me believe you don’t have a clue about advantages of thunderbolt, solid hardware, T2 encryption... there is a lot o good PCs but most are trash, buy what you want, but stop exaggerating . And yes for now Navi macOS drivers are quite terrible, I’m quite confident they will get better

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MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my awesome Radeon VII eGPU
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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@ikir

I've had almost every PowerBook, Power Mac, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro that has existed. Please be polite to people online.

I produce a mother load of creative content. I mean inhuman amount of work. At my busiest, my working week is about 130 hours. If anything slows me down, it really hurts. I've been tweaking and perfecting my workflows and machines for over 25 years. My PC is hand built (has 2 x Thunderbolt 3), I have never bought a pre-built PC. It's liquid cooled using push-pull to 5.2Ghz on all 8 cores and beats some 12+ core systems (proof attached). Idle temperatures as low as 22C (proof attached!). I'm really fanatical about all this fine tuning because any stress or slowdown is bad for my health, bad for my clients, bad for my earnings. Today I was again in physical pain and swearing at the computer (the Mac with eGPU). I didn't do that for the last 2 months while using the PCs.

macOS as an operating system provides less friction, it allows the user to quickly get to things like system settings and files. But the last decade has been rough. The APIs have fallen behind Windows. OpenGL slower, OpenCL slower, Metal slower than Direct X or Vulkan. That just kills the user experience for someone who is in physical pain sometimes from sitting at the desk for so many hours. If you think the Navi drivers will 'get better', please don't have too many hopes. Once the graphics driver performance has been locked down in macOS we have never seen GPU performance get noticeably better with subsequent OS updates. Barefeats website shows graphics drivers in fact getting slower with updates.

On the hardware side, every Mac is being engineered more and more for style and locking down repairability and upgradability. When you design a system like that you start to fight the laws of thermodynamics and you get hit by bad thermals on top of the slow graphics acceleration. Even this new Mac Pro, the cooling design looks bad (hope I am wrong). If your studio or ambient temperatures are high then this machine pulls hot air directly on to the storage, memory and CPU before it has a chance to circulate in the system. It makes me remember the time I was working in Asia, 42C degrees in the summer. Our Power Mac G5 and first generation Mac Pro 1,1 couldn't handle the heat in the studio. 

A funny thing happened while writing this reply. I had the Mac Pro product page open and all the animations on the page made the 5700 XT eGPU start to get loud and then Catalina was slowing down. Because of a webpage, so imagine. Goodnight.

 

Annotation 2019 12 12 060901
Annotation 2019 12 12 060218

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(@mark_marin)
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Geekbench 5 reports lower scores then prior Geekbench versions, perhaps that is why results are lower?

 Geebench 5
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2019 15" MacBook Pro, Mantiz Venus, PowerColor Red Devil Radeon 5700 XT


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mac_editor
(@mac_editor)
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@mark_marin

In the same version of Geekbench on the same setup I’ve seen scores between 30-60K for 5700 XT - hardly consistent. While macOS drivers are evidently bad, it seems this benchmark is too (it should be consistent). Or maybe the benchmark behaves oddly due to the driver - we can only guess. Hopefully we see driver improvements; actually more generally, just a better macOS. 

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purge-wranglerpurge-nvdaset-eGPU
Insights Into macOS Video Editing Performance
2018 MacBook Pro 15" RP560X + RX 5700 XT (Mantiz Venus)

Master Threads:
2014 15-inch MacBook Pro 750M
2018 15-inch MacBook Pro


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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@mark_marin

Same thing reportedly happened in Geekbench 4. Users reported their results dropping over time even without updated to the app or OS. 

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ikir
 ikir
(@ikir)
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@craftsman

Sorry I didn't mean to sound rude, I'm not English native speaker. Anyway I still disagree, I suppose you are exaggerating maybe because you are a long time user. There are so many advantages in macOS and Mac hardware, especially the combination of two. Many times in recents years I've noticed and benchmarked the ophite, 3D drivers getting faster with point releases. This is not the case but for example Radeon Pro 580 and Vega 56/64 divers are quite fast now and got better.

Im disappointed too by navi performance so far, but I'm quite confident the situation will improve, more Macs will have soon Radeon 5x00 cards.

Other than that valley has been always slower, not just OpenGL. For example while Rise of the Tomb Raider benchmarks got better over time, Valley stayed always the same, even compared to other OpenGL titles. Sadly Valley is beautiful but as same time probably not optmizied for Mac and also very old now. I've asked Unigine devs for their plans for "Super Position" for macOS.. sadly no plans. If you are interested just write to them, maybe they will change mind over time. e desperately need a good 3D metal benchmark.


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my awesome Radeon VII eGPU
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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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@ikir

No problem my friend. The internet is a place where everyone exaggerates and it is easy to be misunderstood 😉

Mac users have very high expectations and when those expectations aren't met they become easily upset. Apple has sadly never really tapped into that emotion and tempered their marketing so that it doesn't raise expectations too much. They should never say their computers or software are the 'most advanced in the world' otherwise someone, many people, will prove it isn't. There is always a bug, error or design fault to be found. Always.

On the Windows side, people have much lower expectations. If you're building your own computer you accept that your system is in your hands and if anything goes wrong, it's your building skills. You find out which hardware, driver or software element is wrong and change it.

 

 

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(@adrian_l)
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@craftsman

This is the Geekbench 5 OpenCL test result (46725) for my MacBook Pro (15-inch Retina Early 2013 - running macOS 10.15.2) with Razer Core X eGPU enclosure and Radeon VII running @ 4k 60Hz:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/compute/333492

 

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MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Early 2013) + Razer Core X w/ ASUS AMD Radeon VII


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Konstantinos Chrysochoos
(@konstantinos_chrysochoos)
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Hello everyone

Got my eGPU enclosure and 5700XT 2 days ago and unfortunately missed the 10.15.1 update so I went straight to 10.15.2 from Mojave

I'm facing the same problems as other users with OS X not loading with eGPU plugged around 60% of the times

 

Here are some of my benchmark scores:

Geekbench 4

Intel 630: 22319

Radeon 560X: 62686

5700XT: 147612

 

Geekbench 5

Intel 630 OpenCL: 4840

Intel 630 Metal: 4694

Radeon 560X OpenCL: 17613

Radeon 560X Metal: 18461

5700XT OpenCL: Bench #1: 46899 Bench #2: 49999 Bench #3: 49083

5700XT Metal: Bench #1: 34149 Bench #2: 33221 Bench #3: 34029

 

Unigine Valley (2560x1440 8xAA fullscreen Ultra)

10.15.2: FPS: 58.2 Score: 2437 Min FPS: 9.6 Max FPS: 108.1

Win 10 DX11: FPS: 67.7 Score: 2834 Min FPS: 22.9 Max FPS: 127.2 

Win 10 OpenGL: FPS: 54.4 Score: 2275 Min FPS: 12.3 Max FPS: 91.7

 

Unigine Heaven (2560x1440 8xAA fullscreen Ultra)

10.15.2: FPS: 52.4 Score: 1320 Min FPS: 10.4 Max FPS: 96.2

Win 10 DX11: FPS: 62.9 Score: 1585 Min FPS: 28.0 Max FPS: 119.4

Win 10 OpenGL: FPS: 56.0 Score: 1411 Min FPS: 8.6 Max FPS: 115.5

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2018 15” MBP - 8850H - RP 560X - 32GB RAM - 1TB, Dell 32” U3219Q, OWC TB3 Dock
eGPU: Akitio Node Pro - Sapphire Radeon Pulse 5700 XT


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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@konstantinos_chrysochoos

Confirmed. Booting with eGPU attached is failing.

I cannot disconnect the eGPU safely 50% of the time either. The menu bar item says 'Disconnecting...' and stays like that forever. Have to log out to disconnect safely.

Also, latest Mac version of Photoshop CC 2020 isn't using the eGPU or even the discrete GPU. 

I'm tired of all these bugs, slow performance and things breaking. My hand built PC is now the place do to all my work and I will probably buy a Razer Blade Studio as my next working laptop. I tried one today with Quadro RTX 5000 and was shocked by the quality, build and speed. I'll keep the MacBook Pro just for admin work because I don't have office type apps on Windows, but I'm not buying anymore Macs until I see change in the correct direction (meaning beating Windows at everything)

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(@yang_li_1)
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Posted by: @craftsman

@konstantinos_chrysochoos

Confirmed. Booting with eGPU attached is failing.

I cannot disconnect the eGPU safely 50% of the time either. The menu bar item says 'Disconnecting...' and stays like that forever. Have to log out to disconnect safely.

Also, latest Mac version of Photoshop CC 2020 isn't using the eGPU or even the discrete GPU. 

I'm tired of all these bugs, slow performance and things breaking. My hand built PC is now the place do to all my work and I will probably buy a Razer Blade Studio as my next working laptop. I tried one today with Quadro RTX 5000 and was shocked by the quality, build and speed. I'll keep the MacBook Pro just for admin work because I don't have office type apps on Windows, but I'm not buying anymore Macs until I see change in the correct direction (meaning beating Windows at everything)

Not only that egpu became problematic in 10.15.2, my tb3 10gbe (Caldigit) also not working on cold plug (it won’t hang the system though), and have to hot plug to get network connected (hardware recognised in cold plug but not respond to any network cable).

under bootcamp .295 both egpu and tb3 10gbe adaptor works perfectly both cold and hot plug. Shame on Apple...........

MBP 15 2019
Asus XG Station Pro
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aleigh
(@aleigh)
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Just for reference, I am getting 26418 metal, 30377 opencl on a trash can with a RX5700XT with 10.15.1. In terms of Apple's outlook about all this, I am annoyed by their stance towards Nvidia, and their stance towards TB2 machines.

They sold trash cans yesterday, but no official TB2 EGPU support, even though this is a viable configuration? And now I am basically stuck in hackintosh status, afraid to upgrade for fear of lost productivity, with first-party hardware and a graphics card "supported" by OSX on my TB3 laptop. If I am going to roll my own thing and deal with these problems I might as well run Windows, and get better for less money, if my time was worthless. Which is the equation for Pro users Apple historically capitalized on, but, not lately it seems. I get paid the same way for a job, whether or not I spent 6 hours fighting with technology in the process...

Trashcan Mac Pro, MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports), Core X, XFX 5700XT, XFX 580


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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Posted by: @aleigh

Just for reference, I am getting 26418 metal, 30377 opencl on a trash can with a RX5700XT with 10.15.1. In terms of Apple's outlook about all this, I am annoyed by their stance towards Nvidia, and their stance towards TB2 machines.

They sold trash cans yesterday, but no official TB2 EGPU support, even though this is a viable configuration? And now I am basically stuck in hackintosh status, afraid to upgrade for fear of lost productivity, with first-party hardware and a graphics card "supported" by OSX on my TB3 laptop. If I am going to roll my own thing and deal with these problems I might as well run Windows, and get better for less money, if my time was worthless. Which is the equation for Pro users Apple historically capitalized on, but, not lately it seems. I get paid the same way for a job, whether or not I spent 6 hours fighting with technology in the process...

Unfortunately that's not in Apple's hands. The Thunderbolt spec and recommended use cases are decided by a consortium led by Intel. Thunderbolt 1 and 2 were deemed not optimal for eGPU use and that's why we only saw it recommended after Thunderbolt 3 was announced. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/about

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itsage
(@itsage)
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It is actually Apple’s philosophy that led to 2013 Mac Pro not having eGPU support. They deem the general consumers fairly below average in terms of tech intellect. It’s not a bad approach in many of their products. The conflict was that many Mac Pro users are prosumers or professional users and likely know what they’re getting themselves into. Right before the macOS 10.13.4 launch with “official eGPU support” our community was working with Thunderbolt vendors, convincing Apple to make an exception for the trashcan. Their Thunderbolt director said No because that would make things confusing for other Thunderbolt 2 Mac users.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
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aleigh
(@aleigh)
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And so here I am with a trashcan and the purge-wrangler TB2 enabler, and the solution works well, is stable, at least on 10.15.1, and doesn't really bench any differently than a TB3 mac despite TB2 being slower on paper. That's the reality of it, despite whatever the marketing or optics were, it is a really viable technical solution and means the difference between life and death for a machine otherwise equipped with D500s. Funny enough I only bought the trash can because they kept dragging their feet on the tower and I needed something. 

 

The joke about consumers being confused about TB2 EGPU support really is a joke, because TB is so confusing to begin with. Passive v. active cables, looks like USB-C but regular USB-C cables only half work (power & USB hub), etc. Or just USB-C to begin with, what a mess. Heh. But glad they saved us mac pro users from ourselves... It seems more confusing to not support it when they sell first-party TB2 adapters. I am not even being cynical, not choosing to think that they are trying to cripple the machine so people will buy an entire new platform, I just think they don't understand long-tail enterprise support. I saw the same thing with x-serve & x-raid gear, you know, 3 years out, and can't buy a part for something that should have a 10+ year service life. It's a culture thing. Now we're getting way off topic but this is why I had such trouble with the rumors of them making a car, I couldn't imagine how they would support something for more than a few years. 

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Trashcan Mac Pro, MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports), Core X, XFX 5700XT, XFX 580


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beGPU
(@begpu)
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GB5 tests, best in set reported.  RX 5700 XT in eGPU on MBP16,1 in 10.15.2.  Something is wrong with these drivers.

25813 = 5500M dGPU with eGPU connected but not utilized for test
51591 = RX 5700 XT driving monitor via DisplayPort (27" ACD) and HDMI (Samsung 43" 4K TV)
27226 = RX 5700 XT driving monitor via DisplayPort (27" ACD)
27572 = RX 5700 XT driving monitor via HDMI (Samsung 43" 4K TV)
32905 = RX 5700 XT with no displays connected (headless)

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Posted by: @begpu

GB5 tests, best in set reported.  RX 5700 XT in eGPU on MBP16,1 in 10.15.2.  Something is wrong with these drivers.

25813 = 5500M dGPU with eGPU connected but not utilized for test
51591 = RX 5700 XT driving monitor via DisplayPort (27" ACD) and HDMI (Samsung 43" 4K TV)
27226 = RX 5700 XT driving monitor via DisplayPort (27" ACD)
27572 = RX 5700 XT driving monitor via HDMI (Samsung 43" 4K TV)
32905 = RX 5700 XT with no displays connected (headless)

Myself and others reported the same massive swings and inconsistency all year. Prior to that others noticed scores were dropping without any changes to the app or their Mac. I don't think its the drivers because Luxmark and GFXBench Metal have stayed consistent. Can you perform other more real world tests with the above configs?

Note that Geekbench delivers the results from their server. You can't perform a test and get results without a connection.

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beGPU
(@begpu)
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MBP16,1 always has a display active unless you go into clamshell mode.  Clamshell mode was not used for these tests.  

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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@begpu

Here's mine.

33590 = 5700XT Headless 
33059 = 5700XT + Eizo Display Port
27260 = 5700XT + Samsung 4K TV HDMI
49863 = 5700XT + Eizo DP + Samsung 4K TV HDMI

Same stupid results. The computer sends a configuration and benchmark results string to the server and the results come back inconsistent.

 

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Geekbench 5.1 is out. 

The 5700XT Anniversary Edition now gets +/- 42,000 on Metal and OpenCL. The Metal result is terrible and slower than a 580. The OpenCL result is about 40% slower than on Windows. Geekbench for Mac goes in the bin.

The 9900K PC still consistently getting over 1400 single core and 10,000 multicore. I perfected the overclocking and thermals on this system. Gigabyte Designare motherboard has been a star. In some renders it performs about as well as some 12 and 16 core systems that have lower clock speeds. If I ever need a Threadripper I'll put it in a Gigabyte Designare with TRX40 socket.

Screenshot 2019 12 24 at 08.43.08
Screenshot 2019 12 24 at 08.41.54
gb51cpu

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beGPU
(@begpu)
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@craftsman

I've been able to test scores 70,000+ with Sapphire Pulse RX 5700 XT 8GB in an eGPU enclosure ONLY when multiple monitor configurations in specific resolutions are set correctly. 70361 and 70890 are the two METAL tests with MBP16,1 and DP1, DP2, and HDMI connected at UHD/4K resolutions. Any other less and scores are around 42000-45000 generally speaking, but can drop to around 35000 when JUST an HDMI is connected.  This immediately signals an issue with the drivers in macOS Catalina 10.15.2... in addition to a terrible way to test METAL scores with GB5 (5.1.0 503054)

 

I have not been able to get the third DP (DP3) to work correctly with this card.  Results in an immediate system freeze, whether used in isolation or in combination.  Hard restart required, or automatically does it.  Will freeze immediately again, unless disconnected.  

 

For reference, the 5500M 8GB dGPU of MBP16,1 gets around 28,000-30,000 in all testing so far.

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craftsman
(@craftsman)
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Posted by: @begpu

@craftsman

I've been able to test scores 70,000+ with Sapphire Pulse RX 5700 XT 8GB in an eGPU enclosure ONLY when multiple monitor configurations in specific resolutions are set correctly. 70361 and 70890 are the two METAL tests with MBP16,1 and DP1, DP2, and HDMI connected at UHD/4K resolutions. Any other less and scores are around 42000-45000 generally speaking, but can drop to around 35000 when JUST an HDMI is connected.  This immediately signals an issue with the drivers in macOS Catalina 10.15.2... in addition to a terrible way to test METAL scores with GB5 (5.1.0 503054)

 

I have not been able to get the third DP (DP3) to work correctly with this card.  Results in an immediate system freeze, whether used in isolation or in combination.  Hard restart required, or automatically does it.  Will freeze immediately again, unless disconnected.  

 

For reference, the 5500M 8GB dGPU of MBP16,1 gets around 28,000-30,000 in all testing so far.

Thanks. I don't think it is worth relying on these scores no matter how high or low they go.

Sad to hear about your DP3 issue. I was only using the same DisplayPort 3 next to the HDMI port on the 50th Anniversary Edition. 

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