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GTX 1080 Ti eGPU or built-in GTX 1080
 

GTX 1080 Ti eGPU or built-in GTX 1080  

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Lacin
(@lacin)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Hello all.

I'am desperately in need of a solution to my dilemma. I like to travel so I would love a light weight yet performant, on the go system like XPS 15 9560, but I am also a hardcore gamer so I've made some research and found my way here for an eGPU solution.

Now XPS is quite light but I hear about the two lane problem. I am thinking about connecting a GTX 1080 Ti to it. I've read here that an external monitor would see a performance drop of %20 regardless of T3 or T2 bandwidth, so my 2 lane XPS should do fine if attached to an external monitor, is that correct?

My alternative is an Asus G701VIK with built-in GTX 1080, I've read so many reviews and this one seems to be the most performant GTX 1080 equiped laptop out there. Of course it's way heavier than XPS but my priority here is performance. 

I am in the UK and an Asus G701VIK (£2.800) costs almost as much as my theoretical XPS + TB3Box + 1080 Ti (£1600 + £350 + £750).

My question is which do you think will perform better, an eGPU 1080 Ti or a built-in 1080?

My math is; 1080 on laptop should be 10% slower than on a desktop, a 1080 ti performs 30% better than a 1080 outright and an eGPU will cost me 20% performance so my eGPU approach should have 20% better performance plus my laptop will be thin & light. I am correct or terribly mistaken =)

Also I am going to use this setup for some serious VR, do you think plugging a VR headset with dual 1080p display instead of an external monitor with say 2K display will effect eGPU performance? I think not but maybe I am missing something.

By the way, I haven't bought anything yet so I am open to any and all kinds of suggestions.

Cheers.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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enjoy
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Both 1080 and 1080Ti have 20 performance drop on External Display (Monitor) and 30% performance drop for  Internal Laptop Monitor for 1080p for higher resolution the performance drop is less because you will have lower FPS, more info -  https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/pcie-slot-dgpu-vs-thunderbolt-3-egpu-internal-display-test/

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


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nando4
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15" Macbook Pro is highest performance TB3 eGPU notebook to date

@Lacin, all TB3 PC notebooks so far have their TB3 controller attached to the PCH, a x4 3.0 link which shares traffic with other high throughput PCIe devices like wifi, lan and noteably PCIe SSDs. The sole exception being the 15" Macbook Pro which attaches the TB3 controller to the CPU. This is shown pictorially at:

https://egpu.io/macos-pascal-drivers-gtx-1080-ti-2016-macbook-pro/

If wanting the highest performance TB3 platform then that should be at the top of your list. One eGPU.io user seeing a significant FPS increase in changing from a TB3-PCH PC notebook to a TB3-CPU 15" MBP:

https://egpu.io/forums/builds/mbp-2016-razer-core-titan-x-pascal-better-than-blade-and-gs40/

The 15" Macbook Pro also commands a premium price.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table    •    Several builds
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 M1000M + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10


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XCVG
 XCVG
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If your priority is performance, the G701 will almost certainly be faster. The 9560 is not only constrained by its TB3 port bandwidth but also by its i7-7700HQ processor, which is significantly slower than the overclocked i7-7820HK in the G701. You can calculate the percentages, but it seems that the real impact of reduced bandwidth and CPU power varies by game and usage scenario so it's a ballpark at best. In practice the G701 will be generally be faster, only in extremely GPU-bound tasks will the 9560+eGPU config be similar or faster.

I'd say it comes down to your use case. If you take your laptop around a lot and generally don't do heavy gaming on the go, the XPS 15+eGPU is a good choice. But if you don't move around much or conversely go to different places to game frequently, then the gaming laptop is a better choice.

Late-2015 15" Dell XPS 9550 GTX960M + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + Win10


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Lacin
(@lacin)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Thanks alot for the replies.

So the added cost aside, will a MBP 2016 + eGPU with 1080 Ti perform better or equal than G701 with built-in 1080, what are your thoughts?

And if I go with eGPU approach, which enclosure do you recommend?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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enjoy
(@enjoy)
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1080Ti is 30-35% better than 1080! for laptop with 1080 vs. eGPU with 1080Ti - you will have better performance again even with the performance drop (20% for External Display and 30% for Internal Display).

Do you know how hot are the laptops with 1080 inside and how big they are, the noise for their fans are like CNC machine!

eGPU is for you if you want to play games with the best GPU at home and to have the best laptop always with you 🙂

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


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wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
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Posted by: Lacin

 

Hello all.

I'am desperately in need of a solution to my dilemma. I like to travel so I would love a light weight yet performant, on the go system like XPS 15 9560, but I am also a hardcore gamer so I've made some research and found my way here for an eGPU solution.

Now XPS is quite light but I hear about the two lane problem. I am thinking about connecting a GTX 1080 Ti to it. I've read here that an external monitor would see a performance drop of %20 regardless of T3 or T2 bandwidth, so my 2 lane XPS should do fine if attached to an external monitor, is that correct?

My alternative is an Asus G701VIK with built-in GTX 1080, I've read so many reviews and this one seems to be the most performant GTX 1080 equiped laptop out there. Of course it's way heavier than XPS but my priority here is performance. 

I am in the UK and an Asus G701VIK (£2.800) costs almost as much as my theoretical XPS + TB3Box + 1080 Ti (£1600 + £350 + £750).

My question is which do you think will perform better, an eGPU 1080 Ti or a built-in 1080?

My math is; 1080 on laptop should be 10% slower than on a desktop, a 1080 ti performs 30% better than a 1080 outright and an eGPU will cost me 20% performance so my eGPU approach should have 20% better performance plus my laptop will be thin & light. I am correct or terribly mistaken =)

Also I am going to use this setup for some serious VR, do you think plugging a VR headset with dual 1080p display instead of an external monitor with say 2K display will effect eGPU performance? I think not but maybe I am missing something.

By the way, I haven't bought anything yet so I am open to any and all kinds of suggestions.

Cheers.

   

If you are looking for pure performances only AND don't mind to spend as i saw extended budget you dispose!

=>The eGPU is not for you, it is not what you are looking for.

Invest directly on any laptop with a 1080 built in, then choose the laptop brand already known for allowing basic bios mod and usual basic TDP mod on CPU.

You could wait a bit, newer laptop model are coming out featuring HK CPU, unlocked intel SKU. Running under higher clock.

Or look at the small pc box, some are really compact and features a 1070/1080. Small and really powerful, fit in your budget.

The TBE eGPU solution will interesting for you like @XCVG said, if you opt for a powerful CPU/MB laptop but with basic graphic adapter like the 1050.

But doing that you will sacrifice a decent amount of graphic performances over the lightweight capabilities, portability and less noisy system.

Not sure is what you are looking for.

 

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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nando4
(@nando4)
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Posted by: Lacin

 

Thanks alot for the replies.

So the added cost aside, will a MBP 2016 + eGPU with 1080 Ti perform better or equal than G701 with built-in 1080, what are your thoughts?

And if I go with eGPU approach, which enclosure do you recommend?

   

The truth of the matter is we do not have up-to-date dGPU versus eGPU performance data that considers the following. As such we've had reports of eGPU underperformance compared to a dGPU here and here (both systems with TB3-PCH architecture)

- TB3-PCH vs TB3-CPU performance. I've already covered this in my previous post in this thread:
https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/gtx-1080-ti-egpu-or-built-in-gtx-1080/#post-10570

- previous performance results have been tainted by the TI83 H2D firmware performance issue. You'll note affected users towards the end of the thread are indicating better gaming performance with fixed firmware.
https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/alert-akitio-node-half-h2d-bandwidth-issue/

 

What we do know is that a late-2016 15" MBP + TI83-based eGPU enclosure with H2D fixed firmware + GTX1080Ti (or XP) is the fastest TB3 eGPU platform atm.  If contemplating this route then the 60W+ charging TI83-based enclosures by Sonnet and Mantiz are recommended: https://egpu.io/external-gpu-buyers-guide-2017/#tb3-enclosures

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table    •    Several builds
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 M1000M + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10


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Lacin
(@lacin)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Thanks alot for the info. I've decided to go with the following setup as suggested above;

15" MBP 2016 + Mantiz Venus + GTX 1080 Ti + External monitor & VR headset

When I do I will try and find some benchmarks on laptops with similar CPU and 1080 dGPU, do the exact same benchmarking and compare performance to my setup and post my results to help with the lack of performance comparison data.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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enjoy
(@enjoy)
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I can tell right now that for 1080p with 15" MBP 2016 + Mantiz Venus + GTX 1080 Ti + External monitor you will have the same performance as GTX 1080 laptop:

FireStrike 1080p:

15" MBP 2016 + eGPU Thunderbolt 3 + GTX 1080 Ti + External monitor:  http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12160699 (16019)

MSI GT73VR with 1080 - youtube (16502)


... but for 1440p and 4k you will have better performance for sure!

FireStrike Ultra 4k:

15" MBP 2016 + eGPU Thunderbolt 3 + GTX 1080 Ti + External monitor: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12033166 (6188)

MSI GT73VR with 1080 - http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11450916 (5714)


 

MSI GT73VR with GTX 1080 15" MBP 2016 + eGPU Thunderbolt 3 + GTX 1080 Ti

4k Display

i7-7820HK (2.9-3.9GHz)

NVIDIA's GTX 1080 8G GDDR5X

TOTAL: $3199

GTX 1080 Ti - $699

Mantiz Venus - $389

15 MBP 2016 - $2,399.00 (256GB / RP450 2GB)

TOTAL: $3487

 

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


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Lacin
(@lacin)
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Thanks @enjoy, I've paired your benchmark with another fellow eGPU user, seems like MBP 15 2016 clearly gets ~23% higher on the graphics scores over Dell XPS 15 9560 with a 1080 Ti. It's a huge difference imo.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/12492801/fs/12160699

By the way, while searching for results on 3dmark site I've figured searching mobile CPU classes along with 1080 Ti yields lots of eGPU results. Checking these results I've found that almost all of the most performant results were registered via Alienware laptops. An example search is listed below but all mobile CPU searches yield similar results.

http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpugpu/fs/P/2215/1127/500000?minScore=0&cpuName=Intel Core i7-7700HQ&gpuName=NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti

Here's one crazy performance link, which clearly lists the machine as Alienware 13 R3;

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12491413

First I thought they must be M.2 PCIe based eGPU setups, or maybe some people use laptop CPUs on their Alienware desktops but I found the following link listing the performance of Alienware TB3 setup which scores better than the MBP setup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/comments/5zks86/alienware_13_r3_7700hq_w_gtx_1080_ti_fire_strike/

Here's the firestrike ultra performance comparison of MBP vs Alienware with 1080 Ti at stock speeds;

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/11988398/fs/12033166

Now seeing these benchmarks I'm once again confused about what the most performant eGPU setup is.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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enjoy
(@enjoy)
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Yes Dell XPS 15 9560 don't have full Thunderbolt 3 speed:

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


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nando4
(@nando4)
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@Lacin, the 'crazy' Alienware R3 result you mention is with a GTX1080Ti was with a AGA (Alienware Graphics Accelerator) as opposed to a TB3 eGPU. The difference there is it's a direct PCIe connection between the eGPU and notebook and uses a 32Gbps x4 3.0 link (likely directly via the CPU rather than PCH).

A TB3 eGPU goes via a TB3 controller, adding latency,  plus Intel throttle TB3's PCIe link down to 22Gbps.

So for eGPUs, the performance ladder is as follows:

32Gbps Alienware AGA > 22Gbps TB3-CPU (15" MBP) > 22Gbps TB3-PCH (other PC and Apple notebooks)

 

Now if the AGA could be connected to a 13/15" XPS type system via it's CPU (not PCH) then Dell would cover all desirable bases and be the preferred eGPU platform.  Instead, Dell's XPS 13/15 has a 2-lane TB3-PCH controller making it a serious eGPU compromise.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table    •    Several builds
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 M1000M + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10


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enjoy
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Lacin if you want to know what performance you will have on Internal Display i quote one user from reddit with latest MacBook Pro 15, Node and 1080Ti:

Hey guys! So I went all in and got a 1080ti and have it running via Windows BootCamp on the Akitio Node. While things are running smoothly enough, I think maybe I expected a little more from the 1080ti. I run all games on the highest/ultra setting, shadows and AA either low or off, at the native resolution (2880x1800) on the internal display via Optimus. I find that most games run at around 30 - 40 fps. . . Is this expected performance or are there tweaks I can use to optimize my FPS? I know that using the internal display makes a difference in actual output due to the bandwidth limitations but I guess I expected a little more. 

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


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sicily428
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laptop+egpu is probably quieter but if you are searching better performances you could find better solutions than asus g701vik with 2800GBP= 3250EUR 🙂

msi gt7X or clevo p7XX

 

P775DM3-G NVIDIA GTX 1080 8GB   +€1,955.70
Intel i7 7700K (unlocked)   +€428.34
Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut   +€0.00
Lap & Polish - Cooler GPU+CPU   +€0.00
16GB (2x 8GB) HyperX Impact 2400   +€167.86
512GB SAMSUNG 960 PRO   +€393.61
1TB FIRECUDA SSHD   +€83.93
Intel Wifi AC8265 & BT4.2   +€9.99
United Kingdom Keyboard   +€44.86
Free Lifetime Labor Warranty   +€0.00
16GB Install USB PEN   +€0.00
Report and Benchmark Archive   +€0.00

Total Price: €3,084.29

 

p870km1 has a gtx1070 sli or a gtx1080 sli but price rises

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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ed_co
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But having a brick like that, is not worth it...

Why having a laptop you can barely move?? Because I really do prefer to have a mini itx desktop for the price, and you can move it same way.

The good thing about laptop + egpu case is you have the best of both worlds, so, IMO, the best option is mbp 15" + egpu by far... But this is just an opinion, as valid as anyone's.

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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sicily428
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Posted by: ed_co

 

But having a brick like that, is not worth it...

Why having a laptop you can barely move?? Because I really do prefer to have a mini itx desktop for the price, and you can move it same way.

The good thing about laptop + egpu case is you have the best of both worlds, so, IMO, you the best option is mbp 15" + egpu by far... But this is just an opinion, as valid as anyone's.

   

i agree with you. i only suggested an alternative to that asus  🙂

that laptop is 4kgs

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Lacin
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Posted by: ed_co

 

But having a brick like that, is not worth it...

Why having a laptop you can barely move?? Because I really do prefer to have a mini itx desktop for the price, and you can move it same way.

The good thing about laptop + egpu case is you have the best of both worlds, so, IMO, the best option is mbp 15" + egpu by far... But this is just an opinion, as valid as anyone's.

   

Yeah. I'll pick MBP setup as well, since I do not want to go before my clients with my huge 6 kg gaming rig, I must look somewhat professional =)

Btw, for anyone interested, Lenovo has recently released a quad core convertible (Yoga 720 15") with TB3 input. I believe its the only quad core convertible in the market. And someone has already hooked it up with a 1080 Ti, it looks quite eGPU capable. Here's a MBP 15 2016 benchmark comparison;

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/12091465/fs/12374498

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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ejl371
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More numbers for comparison sake from two machines I have.  The 1070 was the same card in both tests (EVGA SC).  The 1080 Ti in the desktop is the EVGA hybrid and the NUC has a Gigabyte Aorus with the Artic Cooling Hybrid cooler on it in an Akitio Node.  All tests done with default settings extreme preset.  Let me know if there are any other benchmarks you want me to run.  I won't have the 1070 anymore, but I can compare the desktop to the NUC for a reasonable comparison.

 

  i7-6700T + 1070 Skull Canyon +1070 i7-6700T + 1080 Ti Skull Canyon + 1080 Ti
Passmark Score 4381 4872 5179 4846
Passmark 3D Mark 9394 6207 14239 7393
Valley Score 3524 3164 4986 4160
Valley FPS 84.2 75.6 119.2 99.4
Heaven Score 2775 2199 4395 3186
Heaven FPS 110.1 87.3 174.5 126.5

Time Spy

5412 5093 8212 7406
Time Spy Graphics 5713 5329 9837 8663
Firestrike Ultra Didn't Test 3930 7042 6581

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ejl371
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Some more comparisons using CompuBench 2.0 CUDA tests, same machines as above...  If I could get my MBP15 to cooperate, I could show how that compares as well.  Again, depending on the workload there is almost no drop in performance, to a huge drop.  Hope that helps.

 

  Skull Canyon w/ Node 1080 Ti 6700t w/ 1080 Ti
Level-set Sim 128 12,984.8 MVoxels/s 15,099.5 MVoxels/s
Level-set Sim 256 16,081.6 MVoxels/s 16,020.7 MVoxels/s
Ocean Surface Sim 2,440.82 Iterations/s 3,773.21 Iterations/s
Catmull-Clark Subdiv Lev 3 145.103 MTriangles/s 282.932 Mtriangles/s
Catmull-Clark Subdiv Lev 5 342.395 MTriangles/s 382.178 Mtriangles /s
N-body sim 128k 246.766 Iterations/s 498.608 Iterations/s
N-body sim 1024k 64.426 Iterations/s 75.0042 Iterations/s
Vertex Connect & Merge 15.1552 MPixels/s 15.4506 MPixels/s
Subsurface Scattering 10,952.5 Msamples/s 10,850.7 MSamples/s
Subsurface Scatter multiview 10,217.1 MSamples/s 10,169.9 MSamples/s
TV-L1 Optical Flow 58.2956 MPixels/s 66.1094 MPixels/s

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Lacin
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Thanks for all the info. I've completed my setup as follows;

https://egpu.io/forums/builds/2017-15-inch-macbook-pro-rp560-gtx980ti32gbps-tb3-mantiz-venus-win10-lacin/

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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