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HDD raid using modded boards into Mantiz Venus
 

HDD raid using modded boards into Mantiz Venus  

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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

I start this topic, as nando4 asked, to update my results in making RAID configurations.

 

Uptonow I tried to adapt a tiny dual M.2 Sata enclosure with USB-C Gen2 interface to use it with normal Sata HDD.

It works well!

I used these:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/HDD-BOX-ESTERNO-USB-3-1-PER-DISCHI-DUAL-M-2-6G-SSD-CON-RAID-PORTA-USB-TYPE-C/272714051895?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/NewM-2-NGFF-to-7-Pin-SATA-III-3-SSD-Adapter-Converter-Board-Card-PCB-NGFF/32788516994.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Li3IWS

 

I connected 2 6TB HDD and used its USB-C to USB 3.1 cable on a 3.1 (Gen1) port and you can see the HDD in the pc. Made a Storage Space of them, similar to Raid0, I got these, with a real copy:

Reading: 404MB/s

Writing: 408MB/s

Now, I'm waiting for Mantiz to put other 2HDD into this setup: I'll tell you.

 

My question, now is this:

I tried to connect the enclosure to the TB3 port of my Asrock mini-itx Z270 Fatal1ty that should use that port even in USB-C Gen2 mode. I enabled on BIOS the TB3.

I used the same cable with this adapter:

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Factory-price-USB-C-3-1-Type-C-Male-to-USB-3-0-Female-Adapter-for/32547318260.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Ht26OY

It shows only the HDD units (disk1 etc) and its letter, but NOT the Volume Name and also its not accessible, the system hung up.

Can my MB use USB-C for HDD in the TB3 port?

Is it a problem of the USB-C to USB-A adapter?

Should it work with a direct USB-C USB-C cable?

TIA

 

 

 

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

I bought this USB-C Gen2 cable, 2m:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/InLine-USB-3-1-Kabel-Typ-C-Stecker-Stecker-PD2-0-10Gb-s-HDD-Grafikkarten-2m/162216089706?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I tried and had the same result as with the original USBC-USB3.0+adapter to USB-C: it does not correctly recognize the device.

 

So, I asked Asrock tech some clarification and they answered this:

According to your description, seems like the symptom will only happen when connecting 2M USB-C cable.
 
Base on association definition, USB3.1 type-C cable length needs to less than 1 meter.
If above 1 meter length, it will get poor signal and other side effects.
For system stability, we would suggest connecting the HDD with its cable.
 
If you really want to use another cable, please purchase which passes the Intel THUNDERBOLT certification mark products as attached photo.
 
To me that makes no sense.
A TB certificated cable, especially the long ones, active, WILL NOT give any USB-C only connection as they work only at max at USB2.0...
 
For the 2m cable, I don't know, on wiki they said Gen2 max 1m, Gen1 even 2m, so eventually, I should only see a loss on the speed I think...
What do you suggest me?
 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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nando4
(@nando4)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

@Franketto. the Macbook TB3 port supplies three protocols: TB3, USB 3.1 Gen2 and DP 1.2. When attaching your storage enclosure to the USB 3.1 Gen2 port, you will require a cable capable of the USB 3.1 Gen2 10Gbps transmission speed.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) (6th,4C,H) + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + macOS 10.13.6 & Win10


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Well, I'm not sure of this thing: I can use that unit without problem, with its cable that is a USB-C to USB3.1 cable, BUT I connected on my USB3.1 ports that are all 3.1 *Gen1*... and all is working well.

So, I think it's possible to connect also in Gen1 mode.

Anyway, the 2m USB-C cable I bought, is it out of standards? As it is sold as a Gen2 10Gb/s cable!! I bought just for that!

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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goalque
(@goalque)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

1m and longer active cables do not support USB3.0 or USB3.1 protocols, just the USB2.0 (480Mbit/s).

However, if you transfer data through TB3 protocol, theoretical 22Gbps PCIe SSD read performance is possible with longer active cables.

automate-eGPU EFIapple_set_os.efi
--
2018 13" MacBook Pro + Radeon [email protected] + Win10 1809


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franketto
(@franketto)
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@goalque

I know that long *TB* cable cannot support USB-C Gen2, but only USB2.0: I wrote it previously.

The point is, I bought a NON TB cable, but a specific USB-C *ONLY* cable that is specified as a USB-C Gen2 10Gb/s as my previous link.

I will use this USB-C only cable with devices not TB, whilst I will use eGPU with anotehr different appropriate TB3 cable.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

BTW,

I have also a 2m Caldigit TB3 cable that I could use.

But as said it's only a USB2.0 capable speed, I don't know if it will recognize the unit...

Could this active cable damage things?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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goalque
(@goalque)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

Sorry, I misunderstood as you said "to me that makes no sense". My advice was just to use a passive 0,5m TB3 cable if you want the best USB compatibility with TB3 ports.

automate-eGPU EFIapple_set_os.efi
--
2018 13" MacBook Pro + Radeon [email protected] + Win10 1809


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

No problem, yes you are right and also the Asrock answer IF I will buy a PASSIVE Tb cable. Ok.

But my point is I would like to connect eGPU at 2m long if I can for noisy. So, active TB cables solve this for TB part.

It remains the USB-C connection problem, as I would put that external box unit inside the Mantiz eGPU to connect with another cable to pc for HDDs.

So, I thought I will use dedicated USB-C 2m cables... but this seems causing problems.

Possibilities I must verify:

1) MB port is broken

2) USB-C can work at 2m BUT MY cable can't

3) USB-C works with USB-C only shorter cable OR TB passive shorter (I will bought the cheapest...)

4) is it really a USB-C standard that prohibites 2m cables? If this is true there are a lot of cable out of specifics out there

Sadly at the moment I have not another pc with USB-C to test...

 

Anyway do you suggest another cheap shorter cable to test this thing? which brand?

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

The cheapest USB-C cable I found is this 1m:
https://www.amazon.it/Inateck-rivestito-Alluminio-dispositivi-Nintendo/dp/B073RY5JZ3/ref=sr_1_fkmr3_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1504871285&sr=8-3-fkmr3&keywords=cavo+usb-C+gen2+10Gb

Do you think it could go well to try at least if the USB-C MB port is working?
   
Or this Anker, slightly costly 90cm:
https://www.amazon.it/Anker-Powerline-supporto-Delivery-Nintendo/dp/B072JYDQ7N/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1504871634&sr=8-24&keywords=cavo+usb-C+gen2?

The TB cables 1m are all over 70€ !! And also those are active... I can't find TB3 passive cables 40Gb of 1m!
I don't want to buy one of 0,5m, as when I'll buy Mantiz it's included.

   
   

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franketto
(@franketto)
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Ok, I tested the Caldigit TB3 2m active cable...

It works of course at 40MB/s of USB2.0.

This means the USB-C port is working at least at low speed, I don't know if at Gen2 it's a problem of the MB or of the cable.

I start to suspect of the cable, I wrote at the seller.

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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

This should answer also nando4 when saying you must connect with a Gen2 cable: this device works in 3.1 Gen1 and also in USB2.0 on USB-C port.

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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Some news:

I contacted German seller and he did not even answer!! (and it is a big seller with 99,6% feedback)  🙁

 

In the meantime, I bought 2 adapters: USB-C to USB3.0 and the inverse.

I tried the Inline USB-C 10Gb cable + adapter to USB3.0 and the external device works well.

Then I tried the same cable with both the adapters: USB3.0+USb3.0 to USB-C again and I put this on the USB-C port: even in this case it works!

So, the temporary conclusion is the cable works with this external USB-C gen2 box only with upto 5Gbps both in USB3.0 and USB-C ports.

It fails only at 10Gbps on the USB-C gen2 port...

So, at this point I'm in doubt if it's the cable or the Asrock pc (I suspect the cable).

Within next week I should have a Lenovo Yoga 720 to test with and also the Mantiz. So I will update to find out if it's a cable problem or not.

 

In the case it's the cable, what do you suggest me to do? Ask for a partial refund, as at least it works at 5Gbps or to send it back and search for another one? For the refund, how much? I spent 30€+8€ shipping.

I think in this setup, I will use the cable at max 5gbps, so I will not loose speed, but anyway it's sold as a Gen2 cable and it's not usable...!

 

 

 

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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nando4
(@nando4)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

@franketto, I admire the determination and suggest highlighting to the seller you are doing testing for a global community.  I too would like to see full USB 3.1 Gen2 storage performance from your Macbook. It would showcase maximizing Macbook performance through intelligent use of TB3/USB-C ports.

As the supplied cable isn’t performing to spec you may be best served by a refund to continue searching for hardware that can meet your performance requirements.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) (6th,4C,H) + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + macOS 10.13.6 & Win10


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Thank you nando4.

Next week I plan to test also with the 0,5m TB3 cable of Mantiz, that should be a passive cable, TB3 certified and short: the perfect cable to reach the max USB-C Gen2 speed.

The only thing, I do not use a Macbook 🙂

Now I'm using a fixed Asrock mini-itx pc with TB3/USB-C port, next week I will use also a Lenovo 2in1 pc with TB3/USB-C port. Sadly both with 2x connection... but they are the best at the moment for my purposes. Anyway, always with pc, not Mac.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Some updates:
I tried another external enclosure (Startech 10Gbps, 2x SSD or HDD) that has a USB Type B port, (they say) Gen2. They give an USB3.0 cable. I tried a USB-B to USB-C cable and no... it fails. Instead on USB3.0 it works.
But I discovered that on USB-C it is capable of READING, not WRITING! And there is some odd speed thing:

1) with USB3.0:
Read from 2xSSD = 430MB/s total
Read from 1xSSD = 400MB/s
Write to 1SSD    = 340MB/s
2) with USB-C:
Read from 2xSSD = 540MB/s total
Read from 1xSSD = 480MB/s
Write to 1SSD    =  FAILS !! it removes the USB connection!

So, when connected to USB-C it has a faster speed than on normal USB3.0, even with the adapter cable that should be only 5Gb/s...

Of course it's not a 10Gb/s speed, but why faster than 3.0 that should be also 5Gb/s??
Then the other strange thing, it reads but completely fails to WRITE only!!

At this point there are 2 external units with 2 different cables that causes problems in USB-C. Both cables are about 2m.
So, it could really be the length of the cables not permitting 10Gb/s or it is the pc USB-C port/driver that cannot reach that speed. (I put latest TB3 driver)
I will try with TB3 Mantiz cable 0,5m and we will know!

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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franketto
(@franketto)
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Joined: 2 years ago
 

Mantiz arrived, Lenovo Yoga 720 arrived.

New tests both on Asrock and Lenovo:

1) with Mantiz TB3 passive 0,5m cable, there is no problem with the USB-C device!

BUT another bad surprise... this unit SOLD as Gen2 10Gb... is NOT a Gen2 but only a Gen1!! In fact the max speed reached is 540MB/s with copy from both SSD!

2) I tried another different 2m USB-C to USB-C cable, brand Fiveboy, sold as Gen2 10Gb... nothing, the same as Inline cable. They can't even make a stable connection. So it's definitely a problem of these *2m* USB-C cables. I wonder if there are some that works...

 

So, BEWARE of USB-C cables: 1,8-2m length there is a great possibility (certainty?) that they will NOT work at Gen2 speed, also not CONNECTING, so you can't even use them at lower speed if not with adapters that put it at 5Gb/s!

BEWARE of USB-C units sold as Gen2 speed, even notorious brands: probably they are NOT, only Gen1, they mismatch the connector with the real speed!

So, has I told you BEWARE? oh, yes 😉

Now, I'll start the refund processes...

 

Question:

With HW64info you get the port speed type and capability, is there a way to detect the *real* connection protocl established with a specific cable/unit on that port (5Gbps, 10Gbps), apart speed testing?

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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