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MacBook Pro 2018 with Vega 20, LG 5k black magic eGPU pro?  

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nuozek
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January 19, 2019 8:04 pm  

Hello! 

Anyone tried to configure the the new Black Magic eGPU pro Vega 56 with Windows on a MacBook Pro 2018 Vega 20 laptop yet ? 

I recently updated my macbook to this model, and was wondering wether I could use it in windows alongside my LG 5K monitor, have read very mixed reports on wether it’s possible to get this configuration working. 

Appreciate any advice from anyone who’s tried this! 

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Eightarmedpet
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nuozek
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January 19, 2019 8:13 pm  

Ah OK, I thought I’d read some reports of people getting it to work using the original black magic eGPU on 2018 MacBook Pro’s, but in turn losing their internal display. Although from what I could tell it was quite specific to the version of Windows and it’s driver configurations. 

I think you’re right in that it might be a question of just trying it.

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OliverB
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January 20, 2019 1:09 am  

The Blackmagic eGPU should work with perfectly with Ultrafine 5k.

Losing the internal display is a general AMD problem with 15-inch MacBooks only and has nothing to do with the Blackmagic in particular. There are ways to overcome this problem, as you can see in this guide: Bootcamp Guide
If you have the 15-inch 2018 model you won't be able to accelerate your internal display. Again this is an issue of all AMD cards, not only the Blackmagic eGPU (pro).

Posted by: Eightarmedpet

From everything I’ve read tb3 monitors don’t work in Bootcamp. You could buy test and return though?

Why should that be? This wouldn't make any sense to me. I guess they are talking about internal display, which has nothing to do with the Blackmagic eGPU.

Edit: I am very sure that if the TB3 external display works in MacOSX, it works in Bootcamp, too, or vice versa. If it doesn't work, it will be for both OS, too.

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Eightarmedpet
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January 20, 2019 9:30 am  

@oliverb Why are you so sure? Have you read a case where someone has got it working with the Ultrafine 5k display? Why are you so constantly intent on trying to prove everybody else wrong?

I was very interested in the Blackmagic egpu as a solution to directly drive my 5K but I read reports from people who were trying to do the same and they all mentioned no tb3 monitor output in Windows/Bootcamp. 

If you've found any build where any tb3 display works connected directly to the Blackmagic egpu I would love to see it and have my assumptions proved wrong, until then I don’t think you can be so certain that equipment you neither own nor have tested will definitely work.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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OliverB
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January 20, 2019 9:51 am  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

@oliverb Why are you so sure?

1) We know that the Blackmagic TB3 Output works for 4k monitors on both MacOSX and Windows the same.
2) We know that the Blackmagic TB3 Output works for 5k monitors on at least MacOSX.
The rest is very simple logic. For the OS it should not be any different depending on the resolution, why should it?

I had the Blackmagic eGPU with Bootcamp and it worked perfectly despite the bad rumours, but I didn't have 5k though, so I am only "quite" sure.

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Eightarmedpet
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January 20, 2019 11:00 am  
Posted by: OliverB
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

@oliverb Why are you so sure?

1) We know that the Blackmagic TB3 Output works for 4k monitors on both MacOSX and Windows the same.
2) We know that the Blackmagic TB3 Output works for 5k monitors on at least MacOSX.
The rest is very simple logic. For the OS it should not be any different depending on the resolution, why should it?

I had the Blackmagic eGPU with Bootcamp and it worked perfectly despite the bad rumours, but I didn't have 5k though, so I am only "quite" sure.

1. Where have you seen that? Were you using a TB3 monitor? I have only read that the TB output is not reliable in Windows.
2. Yes, but we are not talking about macOS, this point is irrelevant. Sketch app works on macOS, that has no bearing on it working in Windows (it doesn't).

The rest isn't simple logic, it's assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions...

Both the TB3 based 5K and the Blackmagic are unique custom solutions, it took Apple a year to supply drivers to get the 5K's working in Bootcamp.

You cannot claim "The Blackmagic eGPU should work with perfectly with Ultrafine 5k." without ANY experience with the products or supplying any reports of success (I would love to be proved wrong and they do all play nice together).

People could make buying choices based on what you say as it sounds like you know what you are talking about, but in this case you quite simply do not.

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2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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OliverB
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January 20, 2019 11:10 am  

The only assumption is that the BlackMagic TB3 Output works for 5K Monitors at all.  This is what they promise and what can be read. So I would call this an educated guess.  As this ability is dependant on Blackmagic Hardware and Firmware there is no reason to believe it is different on MacOSX/Windows, as this is not different for any monitor smaller than 5K.

So, why don't you go and try the BlackMagic with your 5k monitor? You can return it for 14 days (or mostly 30days), so there is not even a risk.

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Eightarmedpet
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January 20, 2019 11:18 am  

I am tempted to do that... as that is the only way we will know for sure.

They only promise TB3 monitors working in macOS, Windows is stated as not supported at all (although as you mention, from your experience it can work with other outputs - and I have seen others use them with HDMI monitors).

You make a massive assumption and then present it has fact, just stop, misinformation doesn't help anyone.

Also worth noting the 5K's ARE different from other monitors as they stitch together 2x Display port signals to achieve the 5K resolutions, but I don't know enough about how they do that or how it effects things to comment any further (see what I did there?).

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

---
LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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theitsage
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January 20, 2019 12:09 pm  

Windows has a hard time producing 5K resolution via Thunderbolt 3. When I tested an HP Z27q monitor through its direct dual DisplayPort cables, 5K @ 60Hz worked well in both macOS and Windows 10 Boot Camp. Using this same monitor through the Thunderbolt 3 to dual DisplayPort adapter yielded a different result. While it worked in macOS, it had no output in Windows 10 Boot Camp.

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OliverB
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January 20, 2019 12:12 pm  

Yes, it would be great if you try it out and very interesting for all of us.

The Blackmagic eGPU is good piece of hardware, btw.

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wimpzilla
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January 20, 2019 1:13 pm  

The point is not "if" the BM eGPU is a good piece of hardware.

The point is that 2*DP cables output 2*4DP lanes for a total of around 2*30Gb/s=60Gb/s of encoded data.

Not even near compared to a full single TB3 cable, macOS maybe have an additional layer that windows does not support, to manage the data in a single TB3 cable.

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nuozek
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January 20, 2019 2:44 pm  

Thanks all for the helpful insight, I’ll be sure to report back and let you know if I have any success with this configuration.

I’m half hoping that the presence of an on-board vega 20 which works very well in boot camp, will assist in some way with windows accepting the vega 56.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Eightarmedpet
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January 20, 2019 3:51 pm  
Posted by: nuozek

Thanks all for the helpful insight, I’ll be sure to report back and let you know if I have any success with this configuration.

I’m half hoping that the presence of an on-board vega 20 which works very well in boot camp, will assist in some way with windows accepting the vega 56.

Please do... if you get it working I may buy one myself...

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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mac_editor
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January 20, 2019 5:19 pm  
Posted by: nuozek

I’m half hoping that the presence of an on-board vega 20 which works very well in boot camp, will assist in some way with windows accepting the vega 56.

Actually this might cause some issues with respect to setting up your eGPU. See this Bootcamp guide just in case.

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mac_editor
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January 20, 2019 5:55 pm  
Posted by: OliverB

The only assumption is that the BlackMagic TB3 Output works for 5K Monitors at all.  This is what they promise and what can be read. So I would call this an educated guess.  As this ability is dependant on Blackmagic Hardware and Firmware there is no reason to believe it is different on MacOSX/Windows, as this is not different for any monitor smaller than 5K.

The promise is for macOS:  https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicegpu/techspecs/W-DRE-11

TB3 out can be quite different (the LG 5K has brightness control, etc.). Can 5k work on Windows? Yes:  https://medium.com/@ambroselittle/running-the-lg-ultrafine-27-5k-display-on-windows-10-e8b58cb9bf43 - but note the update at the end of the post where a Windows update did not play well with the monitor. So I am also inclined to say that it *should* work.

As @eightarmedpet mentioned, when you say things as "this is what they promise" you must ensure that this is indeed the case.

@wimpzilla As you correctly mention, TB3 (controller probably) has 8DP lanes per this document:  https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt_3_Overview_Brief_FINAL.pdf - thus on Macs each 5K display = one side of Mac. Also:  https://thunderbolttechnology.net/tech/faq - video section. From Startech:

A single connection can either support one 4K display (4096 x 2160) 30-bit @ 120 Hz, one 5K display (5120 x 2880) 30-bit @ 60 Hz with up to a bandwidth of 18Gbps of data downstream and 22Gbps upstream, or two 4K displays each (4096 x 2160) 30-bit @ 60 Hz with up to a bandwidth of 8Gbps of data downstream and 22Gbps upstream.

Also from another TB document:

Two links of (4 lane) DisplayPort 1.2 consume 2x (4 x 5.4 Gbps) or 43.2 Gbps.

So it's DP1.2 unless I'm missing something. Anyway, I am really intrigued to see how things pan out with the eGPU Pro + 5K monitor on Windows. @nuozek keep us posted!

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wimpzilla
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January 20, 2019 9:21 pm  

The LG Ultrafine run on an Alpine Ridge so limited to Dp 1.2 i suppose.
The Titan support Dp1.4 so it bump up the Dp bandwidth to 32.4Gb/s.
                          Dp                                                                                                      1.0                                     1.2                                                  1.3                                              1.4

Maximum Total Bandwidth 10.80 Gbit/s 21.60 Gbit/s 32.40 Gbit/s 32.40 Gbit/s
Maximum Total Data Rate 8.64 Gbit/s 17.28 Gbit/s 25.92 Gbit/s 25.92 Gbit/s

I suppose TB3 is reaching it's maximum bandwidth capability and some magic is needed to feed everything into a single cable/controller.
The controller is fed by 8 Dp lanes but it mux the lanes through a single cable to produce 2*4K or a single high bandwidth monitor.

 

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nuozek
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January 22, 2019 9:06 pm  

The Black Magic eGPU Pro arrived today, but unfortunately I’ve not had any joy so far in getting it to work with Windows via boot camp. Regardless of wether I try connecting it directly to my MacBook, or via the eGPU to LG 5k. The vega 20, vega 56, and black magic eGPU all get yellow banged with the gpu error codes 12(vega 56) & 43(vega20). Windows does recognise all of the devices are there though. 

I also tried uninstalling all of the drivers and following the instructions to install the drivers over at boot camp drivers, but this didn’t seem to make a difference either. 

Do you think it’s worth trying to follow the instructions within this guide ? 

https://egpu.io/bootcamp-setup-guide-tb3-macbook-pro/

I had thought that if I could configure Windows to use the Vega 20 to accelerate only the internal display, and the Vega 56 to accelerate the external display then this might cause less conflicting issues? 

Any other suggestions much appreciated! 

On a a side note the black magic eGPU is a truly beautiful piece of hardware, it runs virtually silent even under heavy load and the benchmarks in macOS are very impressive! Would be thrilled if I could find a way to get it working in Windows.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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OliverB
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January 22, 2019 9:39 pm  

The Error 43 for the dGPU (Vega20) is bad, but there is nothing you can do about it. As noticed in my guide, there is no way to get the internal display accelerated in Bootcamp with an AMD eGPU. If you manage to do it, many people here will be very thankful to you, including me.
Hint1: Better let go of that idea and uninstall the Radeon drivers (see next post, too). Unless, of course, you have an nVidia eGPU.

The Error 12 for the eGPU is bad, but normally you can do something about it. What kind of Windows Version are you exactly running? Windows 10 Build 1703? Or another build? How fresh is the installation? Did you hot-plug or boot with the plugged eGPU?

Hint2:  It's very difficult to hot-plug an AMD eGPU on Windows if the system has been booted without an eGPU. This typically results in Error 12, it's much easier to boot with the eGPU plugged in, so Windows can allocate the resources.

Have you tried my guide Guide for 15-inch 2018 MacBookPro?

I find the Blackmagic eGPU (pro) a high quality piece of hardware, too. And, of course, it is silent.

 

This post was modified 3 months ago

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OliverB
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January 22, 2019 9:50 pm  

Because it's very important to know if the BlackMagic eGPU pro works with 5k Ultrafine, I recite the steps which does get it working for your for 100% sure. I have done it dozens of  times and it's easy and safe.

0) Use a *Fresh* Installation of Windows 10 Build 1803
1) Reboot in SafeMode.
2) Uninstall all Radeon drivers. Delete them from the system! Te be very sure, use DDUninstall. This is the most important step of all.
3) Boot windows, hot-plug your eGPU.
4) eGPU will install itself, but will not work because of Error 12
5) Reboot Windows with the plugged-in eGPU and it will be working on an external display.

The only uncertainty here is the Ultrafine 5K display, this only comes in play after Step 5. That is very interesting.

See also Guide for 15-inch 2018 MacBookPro

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nuozek
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January 22, 2019 11:31 pm  

Many thanks Oliver! I’ll try this exact sequence of events and report back. I’d been hot plugging the eGPU before, and I’m currently on Windows build 1809. 

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nuozek
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January 23, 2019 12:35 am  

Hi Oliver,

I’ve followed these steps exactly using build 1803, but sadly on reboot the 5k is still black (although I do have sound coming through the monitor), and the RX Vega is still yellow banged with code 12. Do you think it’s worth trying to disable some resources to try and combat error12? 

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wimpzilla
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January 23, 2019 5:13 am  

Well as expected it did not worked..
Good luck with the Lg Ultrafine TB3 screen driver in widows.

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Eightarmedpet
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January 23, 2019 7:51 am  

Exactly as I predicted... although the fact that something is coming out of the monitor is at least positive.

I have had issues with a black screen on my 5K at times, Windows can be very finicky about how it handles it but for most the time it works for me.

You could try... Plugging in the screen once Windows has fully loaded - this worked for me on a couple of set ups, I GUESS it's due to the amount of bandwidth but that's pure guess work, this suggestion prob won't work for you but worth a try.

Do you promise you started from scratch and removed drivers in safe mode? If I were you I would concentrate on getting the egpu working without a screen attached first, then once thats settled down start experimenting with when and where you plug the 5K in. Error 43 on the Vega 20 isn't a bad sign as that is expected, now just error 12 to beat... you could also try the EFI boot loader to keep your iGPU active for the internal and then disable the Vega 20 and instal drivers from Bootcampdrivers.com for the Vega 56.

Good luck, sorry to see it hasn't worked yet, really hope you get it going because I would buy one in an instant if they worked in Bootcamp and with the LG 5K's, which, as I stated in my first post, is not what I have heard peoples experiences be so far... (not to say its impossible).

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2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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OliverB
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January 23, 2019 9:33 am  

@eightarmedpet, as far I have understood @nuozek has Problems with Error 12. This has nothing to do with the monitor, or has it?

It would be interesting if his Error 12 problems dissolves with any other external monitor. @nuozek, could you check please?

And this tip is really worth trying: "Plugging in the screen once Windows has fully loaded".

Please try to boot with the eGPU plugged in and no monitor attached! You can use the eGPU for OpenCL and other calculation stuff without monitor.

This answers a lot of questions. If
a) You still got Error 12 then something is wrong with your system and has nothing to do with the monitor.
b) The eGPU works well, then actually the monitor is the problem.

 

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OliverB
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January 23, 2019 9:41 am  
Posted by: nuozek

Hi Oliver,

I’ve followed these steps exactly using build 1803, but sadly on reboot the 5k is still black (although I do have sound coming through the monitor), and the RX Vega is still yellow banged with code 12. Do you think it’s worth trying to disable some resources to try and combat error12? 

So you are saying that on 15-inch 2018 MBP, a fresh installation of Windows 10 Build 1803 yields an Error 12 on AMD eGPU when booting with the eGPU?
That is an absolute first timer. That's why I have to recheck:

1) 15-inch MacBookPro 2018?
2) Fresh Windows 10 Build 1803?
3) Booting with the AMD eGPU Plugged in? (Not hot-plugged, this is important!)

Because this very setup works definitely with any other eGPU including the standard BlackMagic eGPU. I can tell because I had the setup.

And more important as wrote before:
Please try to boot your system with eGPU plugged in but NO external monitor!

Default Apple Radeon driver must have been removed to have internal display, of course. The result will solve a lot of unanswered questions.

 

This post was modified 3 months ago

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January 23, 2019 10:57 am  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

@oliverb the 5K monitor is showing no picture. Fixing error 12 may resolve it but I'm not sure (and doubt it, but REALLY want to be proven wrong).

Me too, because the BlackMagic Pro with an TB3 Monitor would be a great combo, if it works. We will know more when @nuozek tried to use his eGPU without monitor, because this generally must work. The result will tell us more.

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nuozek
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January 23, 2019 11:28 am  

I can confirm that this was tested with a completely fresh install of windows build 1803 (installed via boot camp assistant) on a 2018 MacBook Pro, and that I removed all drivers in safe mode using DDUninstall. After removing the drivers, I waited for Windows to boot, and then hot plugged the eGPU which was connected to the lg5k.

Happy to give this another try without the lg5k connected, and with the eGPU connected directly to my MacBook. Would it better in this instance to connect the eGPU on reboot from safe mode (after removing the amd drivers), rather than hotplugging once Windows has loaded ?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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OliverB
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January 23, 2019 11:31 am  
Posted by: nuozek

I can confirm that this was tested with a completely fresh install of windows build 1803 (installed via boot camp assistant) on a 2018 MacBook Pro, and that I removed all drivers in safe mode using DDUninstall. After removing the drivers, I waited for Windows to boot, and then hot plugged the eGPU which was connected to the lg5k.

Happy to give this another try without the lg5k connected, and with the eGPU connected directly to my MacBook. Would it better in this instance to connect the eGPU on reboot from safe mode (after removing the amd drivers), rather than hotplugging once Windows has loaded ?

Of course, I clearly stated that if you hotplug an AMD eGPU on a system that hasn't booted with any eGPU, Error 12 typically occurs. Please read my Guide.
You can avoid this by booting Windows with the eGPU plugged in.
Please try first without monitor. Then, should it work, attach the monitor to your eGPU.

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nuozek
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January 23, 2019 11:34 am  

Ah OK, thanks Oliver! I mis-understood step 3 I think in your previous post. I’ll give it a try this way and report back.

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OliverB
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January 23, 2019 11:36 am  
Posted by: nuozek

Ah OK, thanks Oliver! I mis-understood step 3 I think in your previous post. I’ll give it a try this way and report back.

Great! I am very very curious about the result!

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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
Noble Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1448
January 23, 2019 11:50 am  

Hold on... booting with the egpu plugged in will result in black screen due to iGPU being disabled - not an issue when a normal monitor is plugged into the egpu but obvs is if the 5k isn't showing a picture. Or have I missed something?

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touchbar + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3) + Win10
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + [email protected] (Sonnet Breakaway Box) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + GTX1070 (debating 2070 upgrade) @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar + Vega 56 @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core V1) + Win10 & macOS 10.14+

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LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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OliverB
(@oliverb)
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Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 1054
January 23, 2019 11:58 am  
Posted by: Eightarmedpet

Hold on... booting with the egpu plugged in will result in black screen due to iGPU being disabled - not an issue when a normal monitor is plugged into the egpu but obvs is if the 5k isn't showing a picture. Or have I missed something?

This is not true, if the Apple Radeon driver had been uninstalled, there is no black internal screen. It's  clearly stated in my Guide that this is mandatory.

I am very surprised, that you don't know this as experienced user..

This post was modified 3 months ago

2018 15" MBP & 2015 13" MBP connected to RTX2080Ti GTX1080Ti GTX1080 Vega56 RX580 R9-290 GTX680


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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
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Posts: 1448

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