[Solved] XPS 15 - 9550 not able to reach 40Gbps over TB3?  

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nando4
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February 9, 2017 8:38 pm  

Dell have certainly been made aware of the problem as their latest XPS 9560 specs now explicitly state "Thunderbolt 3 (2 lanes of PCI Express 3)". REF:  http://www.dell.com/au/p/xps-15-9560-laptop/pd

Ports & Slots

1. SD card slot | 2. USB 3.0 with PowerShare | 3. Battery gauge button and indicator | 4. Kensington lock slot | 5. AC power | 6. HDMI |7. Thunderbolt™ 3 (2 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3) supporting: Power in/charging, PowerShare, Thunderbolt 3 (40Gbps bi-directional), USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps), Native DisplayPort 1.2 video output, VGA, HDMI, Ethernet and USB-A via Dell Adapter (sold separately) | 8. Headset jack

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table    •    Several builds
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 M1000M + macOS 10.14 & Win10


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ed_co
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February 9, 2017 8:44 pm  
Posted by: nando4

 

Dell have certainly been made aware of the problem as their latest XPS 9560 specs now explicitly state "Thunderbolt 3 (2 lanes of PCI Express 3)". REF:  http://www.dell.com/au/p/xps-15-9560-laptop/pd

Ports & Slots

1. SD card slot | 2. USB 3.0 with PowerShare | 3. Battery gauge button and indicator | 4. Kensington lock slot | 5. AC power | 6. HDMI |7. Thunderbolt™ 3 (2 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3) supporting: Power in/charging, PowerShare, Thunderbolt 3 (40Gbps bi-directional), USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps), Native DisplayPort 1.2 video output, VGA, HDMI, Ethernet and USB-A via Dell Adapter (sold separately) | 8. Headset jack

   

Is it then accurate the fact of 40Gbps bi-directional?? It doesn't sound like it is...

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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CampGareth
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February 10, 2017 12:30 pm  
Posted by: nando4

 

Posted by: tadde031

 

hi, I'm new, one question, is possible connect:   9560 (TB3) ---> Dell dock TB16 (TB3) ---> Akitio node ?

   

Welcome aboard. The connection you propose is not possible as the TB3 dock has a single TB3 port: http://www.dell.com/support/Article/au/en/aubsdt1/SLN301105 . As the XPS 9560 itself also has only a single TB3 port you'd then need a TB3 enclosure that offers a second TB3 port to daisy-chain your TB16 to, eg: AKiTiO Thunder3. The AKiTiO Node doesn't offer a second TB3 port.

   

Wait what? They removed the second TB3 port from the Dell TB16 dock? Darnit. What about the TB15 which was recalled due to overheating problems (USB, ethernet and DP keep dropping due to overheating)? It's still out there, it has a second TB3 port and after opening it up to add heatsinks it runs just fine.

I'm eyeing up the TB15 dock, chained to an ATTO TB3 to 10gig ethernet device, chained to an AKiTio Node so how much daisy chaining affects the limited bandwidth on an XPS 13 9350 interests me greatly.

*edit* Actually the TB16 still has a second TB3 port, check this review. Starts off about the problems with the 15 but then says he got the 16 free from Dell: http://deployeverything.com/dell-thunderbolt-3-tb16-docking-station-review/

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ed_co
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February 12, 2017 12:10 am  
Posted by: theitsage

 

Posted by: ed_co

 

Should be great to see how the eGPU works in a hackintosh, and the XPS 9550 is the best one to try with, is almost the best hackintosh laptop out there...

I wish to see it working with macOS, and see how it performs!!

I know it's really cool to have such a setup working. It's a total nightmare though comparing to using the XPS in Windows. The performance is much worse than in Windows as well.

   

Have you tried hackintoshing the XPS 9550/9560?? Should be great if performs exactly the same as real Macbook Pros with the eGPUs... 😉

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


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theitsage
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February 16, 2017 6:28 pm  

According to @DellCaresPRO via a Reddit user, these are the PCIe lanes for Dell Thunderbolt 3 equipped laptops:

  • Precision 3510 4 lanes
  • Precision 3520 4 lanes
  • Precision 5510 2 lanes
  • Precision 5520 2 lanes
  • Precision 7510 4 lanes
  • Precision 7520 4 lanes
  • Precision 7710 4 lanes
  • Precision 7720 4 lanes
  • XPS 12 2-n-1 2 lanes
  • XPS 13 9365 2-n-1 4 lanes
  • XPS 13 9350 2 lanes
  • XPS 13 9360 2 lanes
  • XPS 15 9550 2 lanes
  • XPS 15 9560 2 lanes
  • Latitude 7275 4 lanes
  • Latitude 5570 4 lanes
  • Latitude 7370 4 lanes
  • Latitude 7280 4 lanes
  • Latitude 7480 4 lanes
  • Latitude 5480 4 lanes
  • Latitude 5580 4 lanes

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use

eGPU enclosure buying guide

86 external GPU build guides


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Richard_Parker
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February 17, 2017 3:55 pm  

Hi All, 

This is an extremely informative forum, although a bit disappointing. I bought a dell xps 13 9360 (Kabby Lake) last December with the intention of doing an egpu solution once things at work died down a bit. I moved into a smaller apartment and left my gaming PC behind. The idea was that my work computer could double as a gaming PC for lightish gaming (fallout 4, company of heroes etc). I know it's been brought up a few times before but will I be able to play games and do some photo editing with an egpu while using an external monitor? I know people were saying the hit to performance wasn't as big when using an external display but what are we looking at versus full 32gps, 10% 20%?

Cheers! 

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Yukikaze
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February 17, 2017 4:50 pm  

It isn't a big difference. I mean, 16gbps is Thunderbolt2 performance and we've been happily eGPUing on that for years. The hit on TB3 vs PCIe seems to be around 5-10%, where the hit on TB2 is around 10-15% or so. You're looking at a 5-10% reduction compared to TB3, so it isn't a lot. The one place where it matters more is internal display use, but if that is not on the table for your plans, then you're good to go. Just don't worry about it and eGPU away.

My eGPU Zoo - Link to my Implementations.
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Richard_Parker
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February 17, 2017 7:24 pm  

Thanks Yukikaza for the quick response. So basically from a desktop set up I'm only looking at a 10-15% decrease in performance total, or 20-30% decrease? 

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Yukikaze
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February 17, 2017 7:27 pm  

10-15% on average. Also keep in mind that the drop in FPS is mostly related to the frame-rate (since data is being sent per frame, so the more frames, the more bandwidth is needed). As a result, you get less of a % drop on, say, 4K, than you would get if you wanted to run 1080p at 240hz.

My eGPU Zoo - Link to my Implementations.
Want to output [email protected] out of an old system on the cheap? Read here.
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Richard_Parker
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February 17, 2017 8:20 pm  

Oh interesting, I didn't think of that. I'm probably only going to run at 60 or 120hz at 1080p. Still super frustrating from a future proofing standpoint but thanks for the response.  

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Marko
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March 2, 2017 7:41 am  

This is the answer I got from Dell regarding my XPS 9350 

 

 

Hi Marko,

Thank you for your email to Dell Technical Support.

We understand that you need help with the Thunderbolt performance. We apologize for the inconvenience caused and are committed towards resolving the issue at the earliest.

We appreciate the efforts you have put in to resolve the issue on your own.

Please follow the steps below to diagnose/resolve the issue:

1. Please update BIOS using the link below:

https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER04113001M/1/XPS_9350_1.4.13.exe

2. Please update Thunderbolt Controller driver using the link below:

https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER04047249M/1/Chipset_Driver_J95RR_WN32_16.2.55.275_A01.EXE

3. Please update the Thunderbolt 3 firmware using the link below:

https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER03798029M/1/Intel_TBT3_FW_UPDATE_NVM16_A04_2.16.01.003.exe

Thunderbolt 3 ports can be configured with 2 or 4 PCIe lane designs. Please note that Thunderbolt on XPS 9350 is configured with 2 lanes.

Thunderbolt 3 bandwidth is shared bandwidth which means all connected devices will use the bandwidth for all protocols that transfer through the same Thunderbolt 3 cable (DisplayPort over USB-C traffic and PCIe traffic such as USB, Ethernet, and Audio). The Dell Thunderbolt TB16 dock can utilize up to the full 40Gbps of bandwidth depending on what devices are attached to the TBT dock.

For more information please visit the link:

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf

Please find the picture attached for device specific info.

Note: Systems with the 2 lane design will only support up to 20gbps data transfers over PCIe devices such as external hard drives or video cards that use PCIe. Systems with 4 lane design will support up to 40gbps of data transfer over PCIe depending on the device in use.

To ensure a quicker resolution of the issue or to report any new issue, please reply to the email at the earliest.

Thank you for choosing Dell.

 

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Marko
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March 3, 2017 8:15 am  

Regarding Compensation from Dell to my previus post

 

Hi Marko,

Thank you for your response.

I understand that this computer was advertised with Thunderbolt 3 with a speed of up to 40 Gbps, however, there are two different configurations of TB3 available (2 lanes and 4 lanes).

We don't have an option to compensate or change the motherboards to fix this problem as the system is working as designed based on the configuration.

To ensure a quicker resolution of the issue or to report any new issue, please reply to the email at the earliest.

We regret the inconvenience caused.

Thank you for choosing Dell.

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AquaeAtrae
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March 3, 2017 8:41 am  

Hi Marko,

Technically, even the x2 lane configuration does provide up to 40Gbps overall. It's not intuitive. Essentially, PCIe signals are just one of several that are sent within the overall Thunderbolt 3 cable. Most notably, there's also DisplayPort signals which use separate wiring and could utilize all the remaining Thunderbolt bandwidth.

Imagine two collapsible hoses within a larger, outer hose carrying up to 40 gallons of water per second. The inner PCIe hose needed for eGPUs can be connected to a larger x4 or smaller x2 faucet. The larger faucet could be opened to allow up to nearly 32 gallons per second while the smaller could open to almost 16 gallons per second. GPUs rarely need to open these faucets all the way and do their work just fine with just a trickle of water and an occasional gush coming through. Most of the hard work coming out of modern games is generated within the beastly GPU itself, just taking quick instructions from the CPU. But even in those rare instance that a faucet is fully opened, there remains space for DisplayPort signals too, with an overall maximum of 40 gallons per second possible regardless.

Thunderbolt 3 Technical Brief

So, Dell and other manufacturers really aren't misadvertising nor does fewer lanes prevent you from benefiting from a eGPU. There may be a few instances when having x4 lanes might expedite something within the graphics system, but overall the impact in actual games is small. You will still see FPS approaching those seen in a desktop system. Actually, you won't notice the half bandwidth until other technologies come along like super fast external RAID storage. Even the GTX 1080 simply doesn't use all that much still.

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Richard_Parker
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March 3, 2017 7:29 pm  

Thanks for posting Marko, I was about to email them about replacing the motherboard but you just confirmed what I anticipated they'd say. This is still such a let down as I was expecting this laptop to be future proofed for years. 

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slipperman62
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March 12, 2017 11:01 pm  

I'm new and I'm hoping to add to this thread. I just installed a new dell precision 7510 along with a razer core egpu and a nvidia gtx 1080 founders edition. While the the 7510 supports a 4x thunderbolt link and the cuda-z results look promising, the card otherwise doesn't work. Meaning even with the onboard nvidia m2000m disabled the other benchmarks don't seem to be using the gtx 1080 and must still be using the igpu (intel p580). Almost like the cuda cores are available to the system but the display isn't. Connecting an external display (dell p2715q) causes the local display to lock up in different ways. For example the cursor can move between screens but the system is otherwise locked up. Here the cuda-z and hwinfo results.

For some reason I can't upload the hwinfo results. Not sure why.

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nando4
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March 13, 2017 6:50 am  
Posted by: slipperman62

 

While the the 7510 supports a 4x thunderbolt link and the cuda-z results look promising, the card otherwise doesn't work. Meaning even with the onboard nvidia m2000m disabled the other benchmarks don't seem to be using the gtx 1080 and must still be using the igpu (intel p580). Almost like the cuda cores are available to the system but the display isn't. Connecting an external display (dell p2715q) causes the local display to lock up in different ways. For example the cursor can move between screens but the system is otherwise locked up. Here the cuda-z and hwinfo results.

  

There is an existing Precision M7510 eGPU implementation at the following URL. Yes it has a x4 3.0 link to the TB controller.
https://egpu.io/forums/builds/dell-precision-7510-akitio-node-galax-gtx-1080-hof-its-working/

What's interesting is your CUDA-Z performance has double the host-to-device bandwidth shown in that link.This is worthy of an implementation guide as a M3510 too also had the same halve host-to-device bandwidth. You are getting full Tb3 performance proving the Precision M7510 (and likely M3510) have proper TB3 hardware implementations.

As to your question about driving the internal LCD,  the dGPU needs to be completely disabled to facilitate that. To do that go to Device Manager-> View Devices By Connection. Find your dGPU then directly above it will be a PCIe Port or Bridge. Right click to disable it along with which the dGPU will disappear. Reboot and test some apps to confirm eGPU acceleration.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table    •    Several builds
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 M1000M + macOS 10.14 & Win10


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dualcore2
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March 23, 2017 5:17 pm  
Posted by: nando4

 

Posted by: slipperman62

 

While the the 7510 supports a 4x thunderbolt link and the cuda-z results look promising, the card otherwise doesn't work. Meaning even with the onboard nvidia m2000m disabled the other benchmarks don't seem to be using the gtx 1080 and must still be using the igpu (intel p580). Almost like the cuda cores are available to the system but the display isn't. Connecting an external display (dell p2715q) causes the local display to lock up in different ways. For example the cursor can move between screens but the system is otherwise locked up. Here the cuda-z and hwinfo results.

  

There is an existing Precision M7510 eGPU implementation at the following URL. Yes it has a x4 3.0 link to the TB controller.
https://egpu.io/forums/builds/dell-precision-7510-akitio-node-galax-gtx-1080-hof-its-working/

What's interesting is your CUDA-Z performance has double the host-to-device bandwidth shown in that link.This is worthy of an implementation guide as a M3510 too also had the same halve host-to-device bandwidth. You are getting full Tb3 performance proving the Precision M7510 (and likely M3510) have proper TB3 hardware implementations.

As to your question about driving the internal LCD,  the dGPU needs to be completely disabled to facilitate that. To do that go to Device Manager-> View Devices By Connection. Find your dGPU then directly above it will be a PCIe Port or Bridge. Right click to disable it along with which the dGPU will disappear. Reboot and test some apps to confirm eGPU acceleration.

   

Hey there! I recently got my new Dell Precision 7510 and I'm very happy with it. I'm also planning to get an egpu although I'm not yet sure which to get. I really would like to double it as a Docking Station so some USB Ports and an Ethernet Jack would be nice. Since I ordered mine I've read a lot of forum threads and did some research.

When i read about the XPS 15s TB Controller isn't connected with 4x Pcie3 I was worried about the 7510. But, like some other posts I can confirm that the Controller is conected with 4x Pcie3 as I can tell from hwinfo64. Since it worries me a bit, I would like to find out why there are these strange numbers about the host-to-device bandwidth in the configurations here ( https://egpu.io/forums/builds/dell-precision-7510-akitio-node-galax-gtx-1080-hof-its-working/ )

Since I have no egpu Box at hand currently I have to rely on your information.

I also noticed that the "new" 7520 was release a few days ago and the Dell Support Page provides a Intel Thunderbolt 3 Firmware Update which is NVM 12 while the 7510s is NVM 16.

There are going on a few strange things with these Thunderbolt 3 Firmware Updates across the Industry. Are there so many different controllers around? I can only think of 4 different from TI???

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dualcore2
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March 24, 2017 1:13 am  
Posted by: dualcore2

 

Posted by: nando4

 

Posted by: slipperman62

 

While the the 7510 supports a 4x thunderbolt link and the cuda-z results look promising, the card otherwise doesn't work. Meaning even with the onboard nvidia m2000m disabled the other benchmarks don't seem to be using the gtx 1080 and must still be using the igpu (intel p580). Almost like the cuda cores are available to the system but the display isn't. Connecting an external display (dell p2715q) causes the local display to lock up in different ways. For example the cursor can move between screens but the system is otherwise locked up. Here the cuda-z and hwinfo results.

  

There is an existing Precision M7510 eGPU implementation at the following URL. Yes it has a x4 3.0 link to the TB controller.
https://egpu.io/forums/builds/dell-precision-7510-akitio-node-galax-gtx-1080-hof-its-working/

What's interesting is your CUDA-Z performance has double the host-to-device bandwidth shown in that link.This is worthy of an implementation guide as a M3510 too also had the same halve host-to-device bandwidth. You are getting full Tb3 performance proving the Precision M7510 (and likely M3510) have proper TB3 hardware implementations.

As to your question about driving the internal LCD,  the dGPU needs to be completely disabled to facilitate that. To do that go to Device Manager-> View Devices By Connection. Find your dGPU then directly above it will be a PCIe Port or Bridge. Right click to disable it along with which the dGPU will disappear. Reboot and test some apps to confirm eGPU acceleration.

   

Hey there! I recently got my new Dell Precision 7510 and I'm very happy with it. I'm also planning to get an egpu although I'm not yet sure which to get. I really would like to double it as a Docking Station so some USB Ports and an Ethernet Jack would be nice. Since I ordered mine I've read a lot of forum threads and did some research.

When i read about the XPS 15s TB Controller isn't connected with 4x Pcie3 I was worried about the 7510. But, like some other posts I can confirm that the Controller is conected with 4x Pcie3 as I can tell from hwinfo64. Since it worries me a bit, I would like to find out why there are these strange numbers about the host-to-device bandwidth in the configurations here ( https://egpu.io/forums/builds/dell-precision-7510-akitio-node-galax-gtx-1080-hof-its-working/ )

Since I have no egpu Box at hand currently I have to rely on your information.

I also noticed that the "new" 7520 was release a few days ago and the Dell Support Page provides a Intel Thunderbolt 3 Firmware Update which is NVM 12 while the 7510s is NVM 16.

There are going on a few strange things with these Thunderbolt 3 Firmware Updates across the Industry. Are there so many different controllers around? I can only think of 4 different from TI???

   

Edit: I messed up the last point about the Thnunderbolt 3 controllers which come from Intel of course! Sorry for that! I also looked it up and there are 5 avalible currently.

The latest NVM Version I could find as an Update is 21 (Dell XPS 15). But the latest Intel Thunderbolt 3 compatible NUC is still on Version 18 which is quite confusing!

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canuf
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April 6, 2017 9:56 am  

It might be worth noting that Dell has published an official-ish list of which laptops are using 2 lanes or 4 lanes, and are keeping it up to date:
http://www.dell.com/support/article/en/en/frdhs1/QNA44089/thunderbolt-3-40gbps-data-transfer-rate?lang=EN
I wouldn't expect any changes in mobos for current models, just have to wait for another cycle.

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darren
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April 18, 2017 8:30 pm  

I've read through this thread and some other threads and websites on the topic of the Dell TB3 PCIE 3.0 x2 limitation.  I'm still a bit confused as to the practical ramifications of this.

For example, is the gimped Dell TB3 on the XPS 15 9550/9560 able to provide decent gaming frame rates on an external 1080P monitor?

I am considering the 9560 along with a Razer Core, Akitio Node or Mantiz Venus.  I gather that there's no point in buying a GTX1080 and playing on the internal monitor due to a possible bottleneck.  But what about a 1050Ti/1060/1070 using an external FHD gaming monitor attached to the eGPU directly?  Am I likely to get 60+ fps on modern titles such as Overwatch?  I'm guessing the answer is yes, since TB2 implementations seem to be able to do this, but I wanted to verify.

If anyone has used their 9550/9560 with an external FHD monitor, can you please report some gaming FPS results?  

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Splitframe
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April 19, 2017 11:19 pm  

I tested Battlefield 1 ( copy of a friend ) on my 9550 (6700HQ TS-3.1Ghz) on an external 1080p Monitor with a Zotac GTX 1060-6 on HIGH preset the other day.
I played an hour on some different conquest maps with over 40 concurrent players.
CPU Load was at 60% to 80% with some 100% spikes for less than a second(?).
FPS were at 55 average and 49 lowest.

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darren
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April 20, 2017 9:30 pm  
Posted by: Splitframe

 

I tested Battlefield 1 ( copy of a friend ) on my 9550 (6700HQ TS-3.1Ghz) on an external 1080p Monitor with a Zotac GTX 1060-6 on HIGH preset the other day.
I played an hour on some different conquest maps with over 40 concurrent players.
CPU Load was at 60% to 80% with some 100% spikes for less than a second(?).
FPS were at 55 average and 49 lowest.

   

Not bad at all, thanks!  I think the gimped TB3 may well work out fine for what I want with an external monitor.  Now to figure out if I should save some money and go with a 1060 because a 1070 might be bottlenecked by the x2 lanes on an external 1080p monitor.  Was also thinking of buying a new GTX1080 with the recent price drops and use it for my desktop rig, and hand down my own 1070 for the eGPU...

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enjoy
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May 5, 2017 9:05 pm  

Great video and well explained:

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
 MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


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yiannisoc
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June 26, 2017 5:45 am  

Just thought i'd add to this thread with my real world findings, i have an XPS 9550 and tested with a colleagues Akitio Node and ASUS Strix DC2 1060 6GB card - using external DELL monitor plugged in via HDMI directly into the gfx card.
Just ran a few quick tests with this setup: 
-Mass Effect Andromeda, 1080p, on Ultra settings: Ran at a consistent 61 fps
-Heroes of the Storm, 1080p, on Ultra settings: Ran at between 140fps and 220 fps depending on the intensity of what was happening.

The FPS takes a hit if i disable the internal 960M, and run on my internal screen, but i think that's to be expected.

Edit: forgot to mention I used a 2m Startech Thunderbolt 3 cable - rated at 20gbps. 

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Richard_Parker
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June 26, 2017 1:06 pm  

Thank you for the update yiannisoc. I've been slammed with work so I haven't had a chance to run tests myself but I'm assuming running at 4k will be around the same fps. Has anyone here given it a shot? 

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yiannisoc
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June 27, 2017 11:57 pm  
Posted by: Richard_Parker

Thank you for the update yiannisoc. I've been slammed with work so I haven't had a chance to run tests myself but I'm assuming running at 4k will be around the same fps. Has anyone here given it a shot? 

I'll be trying it on a 4k tv, probably next week when i'm home, and i get my personal Node up and running (issue with the PSU atm). I'll be sure to post back here when done.

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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Richard_Parker
(@richard_parker)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 6
June 28, 2017 1:12 pm  

That would be amazing, please keep us posted on what you find!

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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pj16
 pj16
(@pj16)
New Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 1
May 1, 2018 12:20 pm  

I have a XPS9550 and very recently, i found it unable to have smooth 4K HEVC H.265 playback on an TV(Sony A1). 

Found this thread from Google and it seemed somewhat relevant to my issue, would appreciate it someone please help me, in layman's terms,
1. Whether the issue can be fixed i were to purchase a AORUS GTX1080 eGPU?
2. Will the AORUS be able to provide 60HZ referesh rate?

Thanks so much!

Soon I will add my system & eGPU details or a build link to this my signature to give context to my posts


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