A Call For Measurements: Isolating the Thunderbolt Effect.
 
Notifications

A Call For Measurements: Isolating the Thunderbolt Effect.  

 of  6
  RSS

itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

It’s going to be a challenge to get the lights and front panel buttons to work 100% but I’m looking forward to it. 😀

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


ed_co liked
ReplyQuote
ed_co
(@ed_co)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: itsage

 

It's going to be a challenge to get the lights and front panel buttons to work 100% but I'm looking forward to it. 😀

   

I have seen the internal of the case, and looks like a nightmare... It deserves a dedicated thread for DIY followup with pictures!! LOL

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


ReplyQuote
Yukikaze
(@yukikaze)
Prominent Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! Smile

Want to output [email protected] out of an old system on the cheap? Read here.
Give your Node Pro a second Thunderbolt3 controller for reliable peripherals by re-using a TB3 dock (~50$).

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it."- Robert A. Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love."


ed_co liked
ReplyQuote
ed_co
(@ed_co)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@itsage, have you considered:

Asus X99 Deluxe II

Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI

Maybe could be cheaper...

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

There are only a handful of motherboards which have compatibility for ASUS Thunderbolt EX3 PCIe card. The ASUS X99 Deluxe II would work but I like SLI/CrossFire configuration of the Rampage V Extreme better. Also, the M.2 slot in the Deluxe II is for vertical installation for some reason.

The new motherboard will arrive later today. I’ll work on putting everything together this weekend. The Alienware Area 51 R2 will be running with the following specs:

  • Motherboard: ASUS Rampage V Extreme
  • CPU: Intel i7-5820K (Overclocked TBD)
  • RAM: 4x 8GB DDR 2400 MHz
  • Boot Drive: Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2
  • GPU: GTX 980 Ti Hybrid/Radeon R9 Fury X

 

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

My Alienware Area 51 R2 is up and running with the new motherboard! Here are some pictures of the MB swap process.

Removed original motherboard and relocated two plastic cable holders out of the way for the E-ATX board

Fitted ASUS Rampage V Extreme board and made sure alignment was good

Added the essential components to the new mb

All was in place and ready to go

It booted it up! No smoke or burnt smell. Grin

I’m in the process of installing drivers and will report back whether Thunderbolt 3 is working on this new board.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


enjoy, ed_co and Yukikaze liked
ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Success! It took a few BIOS updates and playing around with the Thunderbolt settings in the BIOS but I have Thunderbolt 3 running on this desktop. I paired it up with the AKiTiO Node which has the lastest firmware. Take a look at CUDA-Z screen captures. I’m really confused now. Maybe I need some sleep and get back to this in the morning. Grin

Internal 16x PCIe 3.0

External TB3 4x PCIe 3.0

I will be running more benchmarks this weekend. So far, Unigine Superposition showed very little difference (4%) between internal PCie slot vs. external TB3 enclosure. The two GPUs I’m using are identical in terms of specs and age. This is as controlled of a comparison as possible.

Superposition through internal 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 980 Ti

Superposition through external TB3 4x PCie 3.0 GTX 980 Ti

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


ed_co, gtosi and enjoy liked
ReplyQuote
enjoy
(@enjoy)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Great job. You must use the same GPU so you can put the GPU in Node when you test TB3 and put it back in the Desktop PC when you test PC, we wait for more benchmarks and especially Heaven (you can try with different resolutions 1080p / 1440p and 4k) to vie if PCIe vs. Thunderbolt thread will confirm the 20%performance drop for 1080p and less for the 1440p and 4k on external display or it is less like your first benchmark! 

But use the same GPU not two models because the clocks are different, the cooling are different etc...

Thank you for the hard work and the time you spend testing eGPU performance!

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


ReplyQuote
enjoy
(@enjoy)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Superposition (EXTREME 1080p) benchmark is very strange as i have better results with my eGPU even on INTERNAL DISPLAY with Thuderbolt2 vs. Desktop PC:

Superposition through external TB3 4x PCie 2.0 GTX 1060 (eGPU) Thunderbolt2 @16Gbps | MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)

Superposition through Desktop PC 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps ( )

Superposition through Desktop PC 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps ( )


Superposition (HIGH 1080p) benchmark shows lower results (10% performance drop) with eGPU on Internal Display vs. Desktop PC because of higher FPS, that confirms again that lower FPS = less performance drop or even NO performance drop!

Superposition through external TB3 4x PCie 2.0 GTX 1060 (eGPU) Thunderbolt2 @16Gbps | MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)

Superposition through 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps /Quad Core i7-6700/ ( )

Superposition through 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps /Quad Core i7-7700/ ( )

Superposition through 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps /Quad Core i7-6700/ ( )

 


Superposition (4k Optimized) show us again near to no performance drop of eGPU on Internal Display vs. Desktop PC - Amazing:

Superposition through external TB3 4x PCie 2.0 GTX 1060 (eGPU) Thunderbolt2 @16Gbps | MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)

Superposition through Desktop PC 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps ( )

Superposition through Desktop PC 16x PCIe 3.0 GTX 1060 (Desktop PC) @126Gbps ( )

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


ReplyQuote
ed_co
(@ed_co)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: itsage

 

My Alienware Area 51 R2 is up and running with the new motherboard! Here are some pictures of the MB swap process.

Removed original motherboard and relocated two plastic cable holders out of the way for the E-ATX board

Fitted ASUS Rampage V Extreme board and made sure alignment was good

Added the essential components to the new mb

All was in place and ready to go

It booted it up! No smoke or burnt smell. Grin

I'm in the process of installing drivers and will report back whether Thunderbolt 3 is working on this new board.

   

Sweet!! It looks like we have a nice bench machine to test with!! You r a genius!!

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


ReplyQuote
ed_co
(@ed_co)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: enjoy

 

Great job. You must use the same GPU so you can put the GPU in Node when you test TB3 and put it back in the Desktop PC when you test PC, we wait for more benchmarks and especially Heaven (you can try with different resolutions 1080p / 1440p and 4k) to vie if PCIe vs. Thunderbolt thread will confirm the 20%performance drop for 1080p and less for the 1440p and 4k on external display or it is less like your first benchmark! 

But use the same GPU not two models because the clocks are different, the cooling are different etc...

Thank you for the hard work and the time you spend testing eGPU performance!

   

Agree. Should be the same GPU.

How you could try the TB3-CPU vs TB3-PCH now?? There is any way??

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


enjoy liked
ReplyQuote
enjoy
(@enjoy)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Desktop PC (PCIe @126Gbps)

CPU: Intel I7 6700K

GPU: MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB

RAM: Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB

Motherboard: MSI Z170A Gaming M5

eGPU (Thunderbolt 2 @16Gbps)

CPU: Intel i7-4750HQ

GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC

RAM: 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)

  1. Desktop PC with MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB
  2. eGPU Internal Laptop Display with EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC
  3. eGPU External Display (Monitor) with EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC

 

the video from which i get the Desktop PC results

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


itsage liked
ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

To clarify, the pair of GTX 980 Ti Hybrid GPUs I’m using is identical in specs and age. In the BIOS, I can assign the Thunderbolt card to either connect directly to CPU or the Southbridge. At the moment, it’s connecting through the Southbridge (PCH).

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


Zach, ed_co, Yukikaze and 3 people liked
ReplyQuote
enjoy
(@enjoy)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

We want from you to fill the table Smile

BENCHMARKS DESKTOP PC
GTX 980TI 6GB
eGPU TB2 
GTX 980ti 6GB
     
Unigine Valley 3807 (91.0 FPS) 3250 (77.7 FPS)
Unigine Heaven 2279 (90.5 FPS) 1918 (76.1 FPS)
Unigine Superposition 3806 (28.5 FPS) 3653 (27.3 FPS)
3DMark Time Spy 5878 (38.0 FPS) 5342 (34.4 FPS)
3DMark Fire Strike 15997 (49.7 FPS) 13233 (49.2 FPS)
     
Metro Last Night Redux 138.1 FPS 93.5 FPS
Rise of the Tomb Raider 59.9 FPS 58.1 FPS
Tom Clancy's The Division 59.8 FPS 46.8 FPS

 

Also will be great to test with GTX 1060 and GTX 1080Ti if you still have them Smile

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


Zach and itsage liked
ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@enjoy I’m adding FPS # and screen captures as I go. I’ll switch the Thunderbolt connection to CPU PCIe slot after I’m done testing the SB PCIe slot. 

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


ed_co, gtosi and enjoy liked
ReplyQuote
enjoy
(@enjoy)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Thank you! Heaven & Valley again show us close to 20% performance drop like in PCIe vs. Thunderbolt thread so that confirm all results even they are with different CPUs!

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


ReplyQuote
nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

The shortlist of bandwidth sensitive games at https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/alert-akitio-node-half-h2d-bandwidth-issue/ would be a good place to do x16-desktop vs x4-desktop vs TB3-CPU vs TB3-PCH FPS performance comparison.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (6th,4C,H) + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 // compares M.2 vs TB3 performance


gtosi and ed_co liked
ReplyQuote
ed_co
(@ed_co)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

This is exciting! First time to have CLEAR results about performance drops in any configuration,  based on the same base specs!! Awesome!!

mid-2017 Macbook Pro RP560 + MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS10.13 & Win10


gtosi and enjoy liked
ReplyQuote
gtosi
(@gtosi)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Great work @itsage, keep it up! I noticed that the minimum FPS number is higher in the eGPU than in the dGPU. For Unigine Heaven for example, it is 9 FPS vs 22 FPS. Do you think this is just some margin of error, so every time running gets different numbers? 

I also have a question/suggestion: Nobody can run FPS>144 because of screen refresh, and most people can only do <60FPS, right? Then, in terms of performance for gaming, we should not really care about any FPS>144 or >60. Is there a way to cap the FPS via Vsync/Gsync when running the benchmark?

The reason I am asking is because I think then the average FPS could be much closer between dGPU and eGPU, as you reported in Superposition results in the table. In Heaven and Valley, the max FPS of the dGPU are much higher than for eGPU, so we don't want that to be driving our results. So the performance difference when FPS<144 are the ones we care about, is that correct? And obviously, as a big fan of eGPU, I don't want to conclude there are performance losses so fast :).

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I filled out the benchmark table with FPS #s and links to screen caps. I will connect Thunderbolt 3 connection to CPU tomorrow and run the eGPU benchmarks again. I have a 4K FreeSync monitor to test higher resolution with an R9 Fury X next.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


gtosi and enjoy liked
ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I switched the Thunderbolt EX3 card to use CPU PCIe slots. That did not work. There was no detection of the enclosure when Thunderbolt connection was routed through CPU PCIe slots.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


ReplyQuote
vava726
(@vava726)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I think that, if we don't consider the mb pro 15, there is  only one cpu tb3 controller and it is the alpine ridge of the skull nuc.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


itsage liked
ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@vava726 good point. I’m wondering if the Thunderbolt connection I’m using is at Thunderbolt 2 speed. Given the very low numbers in CUDA-Z and the the BIOS reporting Falcon Ridge controller.  http://ark.intel.com/products/76719/Intel-DSL5320-Thunderbolt-2-Controller

 

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


gtosi liked
ReplyQuote
vava726
(@vava726)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

What enclosure are you using ? 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


ReplyQuote
vava726
(@vava726)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: itsage

 

@vava726 good point. I'm wondering if the Thunderbolt connection I'm using is at Thunderbolt 2 speed. Given the very low numbers in CUDA-Z and the the BIOS reporting Falcon Ridge controller.  http://ark.intel.com/products/76719/Intel-DSL5320-Thunderbolt-2-Controller

 

   

The cuda z results are similar to a thunderbolt 2....., I think it is a problem of firmware or driver because I haven't ever seen a tb2 controller with an usb-c port.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


ReplyQuote
enjoy
(@enjoy)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Thunderbolt 2 (16Gbps) and Thunderbolt 3 (32Gbps) have the same performance on External Display so no problem with that!

ϟ AKiTiO Thunder2 + EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SC Gaming (macOS Sierra 10.12.4 and Windows 10)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Later 2013) 3.2GHz Quad Core Intel i7-4750HQ / 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 256GB SSD + 1TB
mini eGPUPCI Express vs. ThunderboltMac CAN gameGaming Laptops vs. MacBook Pro with eGPU


vava726 liked
ReplyQuote
vava726
(@vava726)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: enjoy

 

Thunderbolt 2 (16Gbps) and Thunderbolt 3 (32Gbps) have the same performance on External Display so no problem with that!

   

It's true in terms of perfomance validation... but in order to have experiments fairiness It would be nice to have cudaz at around 2400 on a tb3 controller

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


ReplyQuote
wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
Honorable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
  If everything is installed correctly, you should see a Thunderbolt menu in the advanced configuration menu. thunderbolt_2_ready_for_windows_with_the_asus_thunderboltex_ii_23 Selecting the Thunderbolt configuration, we find all the options for the ThunderboltEX II. One thing I recommend doing is setting the Cache-line size to 128 as it seems to affect performance by a fair margin.
Going by ASUS' instructions, you must use the bottom slot on the motherboard as you can see in the image above. I can confirm this is the only slot that will work, so don't try it any other way; it just won't work as intended.

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I’m using the AKiTiO Node with the latest 25,1 firmware that has the H2D fix. The Thunderbolt PCIe card is Asus Thunderbolt EX3. After further reading, it’s the Falcon Ridge controller on this Asus Rampage Extreme MB that limits connection speed at Thunderbolt 2.

It seems from Asus X99 line-up, the motherboards with Alpine Ridge controller are X99-Deluxe II, X99-E, and X99-A II.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


vava726 liked
ReplyQuote
vava726
(@vava726)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

or GIGABYTE GA-X99P-SLI (rev. 1.0) LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99. 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


itsage liked
ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I’m leaning towards the Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI too. There’s one available at my local MicroCenter store. What I’m not 100% clear is whether it requires an add-on card like the Asus motherboards.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


ReplyQuote
wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
Honorable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

 

I.e: Maximus VIII Extreme, Z170 PCH, Alpine Ridge USB Type C/A; ASM1142 USB A

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


ReplyQuote
itsage
(@itsage)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@wimpzilla I’m constrained by the Alienware Area 51 R2 desktop. It has an i7-5820K CPU which requires an X99 motherboard.

I searched through the Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI manual and found these two pages with information on Thunderbolt 3.

external graphics card builds
best laptops for external GPU
eGPU enclosure buyer's guide


gtosi liked
ReplyQuote
wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
Honorable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@TheITSage, i m really looking to give you further input and help, just started digging into the topic.

The X99 Rampage V Extreme didn't own a TBE controller but is compatible with the add-in card.

I understood that you need the add-in card extension cable to connect the TBE card to the MB, it seems to be a GPIO port.

I understood that the primary use of a TBE controller on a desktop motherboard seems to be related caring the display signal mainly.

Edit:

GPIO Connector

Giga site

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


ReplyQuote
gtosi
(@gtosi)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: vava726

 

Posted by: enjoy

 

Thunderbolt 2 (16Gbps) and Thunderbolt 3 (32Gbps) have the same performance on External Display so no problem with that!

   

It's true in terms of perfomance validation... but in order to have experiments fairiness It would be nice to have cudaz at around 2400 on a tb3 controller

   

@vava726 and @enjoy: Do you know what the reason is why TB3 and TB2 would have the same performance on the external display? Why does the difference in bandwidth not matter? Is it because of latency or something that you say it has the same performance? I don't quite understand it..

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


ReplyQuote
vava726
(@vava726)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I think that there is a not-linear relationship between  bandwith and fps on 1080p, the empirical experiments previously done seem to show that the 32 Gb/s are significant only when you go over the 1080 limit... Maybe it's a problem of driver and firmware optimization, according to my opinion egpus need ad-hoc driver.... and I think that we need to involve Nvidia and Amd to their devolopment.... The bandwith and latency of a standard  pci-e line are really different to tb3 ones.... 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


gtosi liked
ReplyQuote
 of  6