BlackBeast Pro eGPU - KickStarter Project Exposed
 

BlackBeast Pro eGPU - KickStarter Project Exposed  

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Posted by: @craftsman
 
Helps to use the correct photo and show the factory production line.

Your Luxmark and Geekbench results not addressed.

I believe they have been browsing the benchmarks and ran their own imaginary benchmarks early in the process and forgot about them.

Same with the MP 2013 support.

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
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mac_editor
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Posted by: @mac_editor

This is beside the point. The 2013 Mac Pro does not support eGPUs natively and you are advertising (inductively) that they do. How did you set up the Mac Pro so that it could detect the eGPU?

@lagarhus Guess I won't be getting an answer to this question now will I - since you and I both know (very well) how you got the eGPU running. There are only 3 ways after all. I'll just repost my previous response/concerns regarding this:

Posted by: @lagarhus

I know that the Mac Pro 2013 does not official supports eGPU due to poor experience. They have also said, they would love to implement eGPU in older Macs, especially in the Mac Pro . BlackBeast Pro will let you use two cables and with TB3 to TB2 adapter, you can utilize two Thunderbolt buses in the Mac Pro . The result will be a much better experience. This is an ongoing process with Apple and Intel, but we have a very strong case.

My response then:

Poor experience isn’t the reason for no eGPU support, but let’s forget that. Could you clarify? Who are “they?” You say this is an ongoing process with Apple - are you saying that you will convince them to add eGPU support for the 2013 Mac Pro ? I know how the eGFX box will connect with the Mac Pro , but as facts stand, eGPU is not officially supported on non-Thunderbolt 3 macs and likely never will, and your website advertises 2013 Mac Pro gaining a significant performance boost when clearly that is not likely to happen (officially). Therefore it is a false claim. Also note that if you plan on selling the eGPU with “software” that 2013 Mac Pro users might have to install to get it running, then I’m letting you know in advance that both automate-eGPU EFI and purge-wrangler (and any of their components, including patches) licenses prohibit any commercial use in any form. The only thing that will work on the 2013 Mac Pro with your eGFX out of the box are the ports.

Commerical use in any form includes inductively leveraging the existence of patches to advertise your product. These shenanigans hurt the open source community and force developers to close-source and pay-wall software - which in turn hurts future developers who could have potentially built on the foundations of previous work (I learnt a lot looking at automate-eGPU.sh, for example).

The third approach to eGPU support is an EFI card (via Option ROM execution, now blocked permanently in T2 IIRC) like MVC did (incidentally they advertised support for 2013 Mac Pro), though from what I recall they only did a 1080 Ti but I may be mistaken.

Or more simply, you just didn't test the 2013 MP and like the other benchmarks and are making things up.

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igerard
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Well, late on the discussion,

Something I find boring with the eGPU enclosure I got: Akitio Node and HP Accelerator, and we know that they are not alone, is that we need to tweak them to get silent enclosure or less noisy, meaning additional cost, and work, sometimes not easy (the HP was not funny to tweak)

Is this is addressed by this enclosure ?

Impatient to get the feedback from itsage 

Regards

Gerard

MBP 2018, Touch Bar, i7 2.6 GHz, 32 GB RAM, 1T SSD, Radeon 560X... very nice!
eGPU : Akitio Node + RX 580 + GTX 980 Ti + Vega64


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Yes, the bottom intake have not been shown so far and the top of the case does not offer that much of area for ventilating out varm air without forcing it. 

So getting 600+ watt of heat out of an almost sealed case must be a challenge with what they have shown so far. 
As it’s said to be very silent. 

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
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Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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Lagarhus
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@mac_editor

We have not even though about using your software or any open source for eGPU support for older Macs.

We do have an environmental commitment and carbon neutral factories and lowered Co2 emissions from our shipping partner is one of them.

Another commitment is to lower the use and discard culture. We replace our computer every 1-2 years (Norway is even worse). With official support for Thunderbolt 2, you don’t need to replace your computer that often. This is a win for the user and the environment. 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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mac_editor
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@lagarhus

Please stop dodging the question and answer accurately: How did you test eGPU on 2013 Mac Proand How did you get an eGPU to work with 2013 Mac Pro?

Posted by: @lagarhus

With official support for Thunderbolt 2, you don’t need to replace your computer that often. This is a win for the user and the environment. 

There is NO official support for Thunderbolt 2 eGPUs on macOS. Please define official support.  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544 says:

Your Thunderbolt 3-equipped Mac running macOS High Sierra 10.13.4 or later can access additional graphics performance by connecting to an external graphics processor (also known as an eGPU).

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Master Threads:
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Posted by: @lagarhus

@mac_editor

We have not even though about using your software or any open source for eGPU support for older Macs.

We do have an environmental commitment and carbon neutral factories and lowered Co2 emissions from our shipping partner is one of them.

Another commitment is to lower the use and discard culture. We replace our computer every 1-2 years (Norway is even worse). With official support for Thunderbolt 2, you don’t need to replace your computer that often. This is a win for the user and the environment. 

This is quite exiting.

So Apple will enable eGFX support in macOS for all TBT2 Macs or just the Mac Pro 2013 version?
Or should it be read as speculative or wishful thinking from your side as not even Intel do allow eGFX solutions over anything else then Thunderbolt 3.

 

As you already have done benchmarks with the MP 2013 and your eGFX rig - what was the enabler used?
Software under NDA from Apple or an open source solution?

This post was modified 3 weeks ago

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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igerard
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@mac_editor

There is like a smell of Fake here ...

We know that we have to be very suspicious about all these kind of miraculous promise for a miraculous product 🙂 The web site is not very precise just few days before CES. 

I have the feeling that there will be nobody at CES, or no hardware at all to show...

Itsage will keep us updated, this is just next week now!

This post was modified 3 weeks ago

MBP 2018, Touch Bar, i7 2.6 GHz, 32 GB RAM, 1T SSD, Radeon 560X... very nice!
eGPU : Akitio Node + RX 580 + GTX 980 Ti + Vega64


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itsage
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@lagarhus We have provided feedback and recommended the best approach to earn community trust is transparency. Your responses thus far are nothing more than marketing speak. Your prototype can be replicated with fabrication using existing Thunderbolt 3 boards. I would advise looking into BizonBox and exklim eX Core as examples of what happened to eGPU projects that were not upfront about their specs and/or intention.

You asked for permission to use our community as an endorser of your product on Kickstarter which I promptly declined. We only review products that we have personal experience using and tearing down to learn about them. Like @mac_editor and others have mentioned it’s a disservice to yourself dodging relevant questions. Our community created the eGPU hobby before this website existed and long before Intel & Apple started providing official support.

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A split second clip of plugging a Thunderbolt-2 cable into a Mac Pro 2013 - is not how to do a legit benchmark trying to sell a working development solution.

 

 

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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Eightarmedpet
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@itsage

sorry, just to be 100% clear, this guy asked you as the forum to endorse the product despite never seeing let alone using one as well as avoiding questions asked on the forum about the how the product actually works.

 

After watching that (horrible) video the gap between reality and their proposed ambition widens further.

 

Oh and it's huge.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
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GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
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itsage
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@eightarmedpet Over PM they asked if they could mention eGPU.io in their Kickstarter page’s “Also seen in” section. They also proposed an affiliate program for this product. I declined both and said I will meet them in person at CES and will give the product a fair coverage.

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His company have already received 100000 + 600000 NOK ($80000) in inovation / introduction benefit from the Innovasjon Norge.

They state they have designed the product themselves. If designed mean the outer casing only as in a white box hardware I do not know. 

They also write that they are currently doing external testing with our prototype, developing the production unit, creating commercials and looking for business relations.

That mean a real and honest benchmark video with real, visible and verifiable hardware should be an easy task.

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Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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Eightarmedpet
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@itsage

that face to face, if it happens, is going to be awkward, I don't believe this lad has a clue about whats he's talking about, less egpu knowledge than me I'd say even!

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

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craftsman
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Posted by: @username

A split second clip of plugging a Thunderbolt-2 cable into a Mac Pro 2013 - is not how to do a legit benchmark trying to sell a working development solution.

 

 

What the hell is that? The display is on before the Thunderbolt 2 cable is plugged in. The display still has an in-store display sticker on the front panel.

Question dodging, CG mock ups, amateur fake looking demos, fabricated benchmarks, photo of a college used instead of the factory, no photos presented of the daughter cards or manufacturing facility. 

This post was modified 3 weeks ago

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Yukikaze
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I am now awaiting theitsage's trip to CES almost as much as I would enjoy going there myself 😛 

Anyone has popcorn?

Want to output [email protected] out of an old system on the cheap? Read here.
Give your Node Pro a second Thunderbolt3 controller for reliable peripherals by re-using a TB3 dock (~50$).

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it."- Robert A. Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love."


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joevt
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Will there be any USB4 stuff at CES? I might be more excited about that.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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Posted by: @joevt

Will there be any USB4 stuff at CES? I might be more excited about that.

Well the BlackBeast is USB4 compatible. 🙂

 

 

 2A5D7CD1 F9AE 43D4 97F6 EF6DD5CF52AE

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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@username

I don't want my computer to be chared. Just slightly crispy on the outside.

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5542FF97 C6ED 4022 A34B 3DEDE907283E

Here’s another fake/wrong screen shot of the GPU performance as it does the opposite of showing a less working CPU. 
They can not tell us what GPU they are using. They can not do a screen shot of the GPU load. 
They can not even show us one single screen shot of any real world data or specifications. 

https://www.blackbeastpro.com/roadmap/fcpx-acceleration-with-blackbeastpro

 

 

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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@username

Give it a rest. Wait for the hands on and if it’s a fake then call it as such. 

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mac_editor
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@itsage

Regarding Blackbeast, I’m guessing that they locked away things (probably Terminal too) as both could tell us if SIP was disabled (aka potentially patched system), besides any obvious hardware fallacies involved. If you don’t mind me asking, how did the conversation regarding TB2 go? Did they just stick with ‘it just works’ or came up with more BS? Sad to see their Kickstarter reach it’s goal. I will never be recommending them to anyone irrespective of whether they get certification and whatnot.

Amusingly, it seems that GPU I/O is inaccessible in this enclosure (and claims to be delivered via enclosure output per their FAQ - I read this on their Kickstarter in a comment). Also, the wires going into the chassis and not being plugged into the ports is suspicious af. Probably a different enclosure/components being used inside. 

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Internally routed cables to another sub board for card DP/HDMI output do not decrease either the cost or complexity. 

And as always when someone’s hiding the hardware, refusing to talk about the solutions and keep on with its marketing bs - I tend to disbelieve them. 🙂

According to these dates below, CE testing have already begun. 
If that’s true, it means two things.

They either have their own cards already manufactured. 
Or they are using someone else’s cards and PSU pre-manufactured and already, by a competent body, CE-certified cards which they simply connect together inside their case. 

Spoiler
Schedule
F6DE9F1F 493B 4D50 9A0A 6205B8DC829D
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Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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craftsman
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Posted by: @mac_editor

@itsage

Regarding Blackbeast, I’m guessing that they locked away things (probably Terminal too) as both could tell us if SIP was disabled (aka potentially patched system), besides any obvious hardware fallacies involved. If you don’t mind me asking, how did the conversation regarding TB2 go? Did they just stick with ‘it just works’ or came up with more BS? Sad to see their Kickstarter reach it’s goal. I will never be recommending them to anyone irrespective of whether they get certification and whatnot.

Amusingly, it seems that GPU I/O is inaccessible in this enclosure (and claims to be delivered via enclosure output per their FAQ - I read this on their Kickstarter in a comment). Also, the wires going into the chassis and not being plugged into the ports is suspicious af. Probably a different enclosure/components being used inside. 

It looks like one TB2 cable going to an off the shelf drive adapter. Another TB2 cable going to a PCIE board, probably also off the shelf or taken from an Akitio, and activated with automate-eGPU. All stuffed inside a cheap looking black moulded case with no ports. 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Eightarmedpet
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Super worrying about the Blackbeast Pro... you dont go to the worlds biggest tech show to show your tech and, err, hide it... something is not right there.

I think this lad is taking everyone for a ride, at some point reality will hit.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
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Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

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If this is correct - why on earth do they no plaster the whole internet with it?!

Hi Tiago.

The GPU is redirected to the ports of the BlackBeast Pro (Similar to the Blackmagic eGPU). When connected to a external monitor, it will go directly to the eGPU.

We have been working with both Apple and Intel to get official support for Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt 2 support. With our dual controller, we will get official support when certification is completed. [comments link]

 

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Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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@itsage

Perhaps our lovely admin get the opportunity to ask some Intel or any of the other eGFX developers if they know anything about this legacy TB opportunity?

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
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Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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craftsman
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Posted by: @username

@itsage

Perhaps our lovely admin get the opportunity to ask some Intel or any of the other eGFX developers if they know anything about this legacy TB opportunity?

Everyone interested or wants to know the truth should email schiller@apple.com and provide Phil Schiller with links where Lager House claims to be 'working with Apple' to bring 'official' TB2 eGPU support to older Macs. If it's not true, Apple will hit him with a cease and desist.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Posted by: @craftsman
 
Everyone interested or wants to know the truth should email schiller@apple.com and provide Phil Schiller with links where Lager House claims to be 'working with Apple' to bring 'official' TB2 eGPU support to older Macs. If it's not true, Apple will hit him with a cease and desist.
Email sent to both entities.
 

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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itsage
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Posted by: @username

@itsage

Perhaps our lovely admin get the opportunity to ask some Intel or any of the other eGFX developers if they know anything about this legacy TB opportunity?

We were working with Sonnet and others to convince Apple for native eGPU support on the 2013 Mac Pro. This is right before the big announcement of 10.3.4 release. It got close but Apple Thunderbolt Director said no due to confusion in terms of usability; people won’t understand why only the 2013 Mac Pro gets support and not other Thunderbolt 2 Macs.

That was two years ago. The decision is to only support Thunderbolt 3 forward. If partners who have worked with Apple and Intel for decades cannot make it happen, what do you think the chances are for a new comer who may or may not fully understand the technology?

As @mac_editor has mentioned many times, older Thunderbolt Mac eGPU support has been provided by our community. We’re not aware of other solutions for macOS 10.15 which the BBP was paired with on the TB2 13-in MBP. If you trust my judgement of everything I was able to collect, Lagarhus Products team doesn’t have their own Thunderbolt 3 board and they’re using our community solutions to pair with TB1/2 Macs.

I met with several Thunderbolt partners who simply laughed when I mentioned the BBP. These guys work directly with Intel, AMD, and Apple. We have provided Lagarhus Products more than enough feedback to build something good. The lack of transparency does not sit well with many of us.

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Posted by: @itsage

If you trust my judgement of everything I was able to collect, Lagarhus Products team doesn’t have their own Thunderbolt 3 board and they’re using our community solutions to pair with TB1/2 Macs.

We definitely trust your judgement. Since you shared images of the eGPU icon being detected, it is likely that they have used purge-wrangler specifically (or in modified fashion) - as that's the only script as of now that has a patch for 10.15.1+ with eGPU icon. I don't think they are capable enough to retrieve the patch from that script, add it to automate-eGPU EFI config.plist and apply it (its easy to do, but still I doubt those guys could). If they had used automate-eGPU EFI as is, they would have a working eGPU but without the icon in the menubar.

Thank you for the CES coverage @itsage. The Lenovo enclosure looks very compelling. That Zotac lineup of mini-PCs is awesome. Looking forward to see what Mantiz have up their sleeve (edit: cool).

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itsage
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Posted by: @mac_editor

We definitely trust your judgement. Since you shared images of the eGPU icon being detected, it is likely that they have used purge-wrangler specifically (or in modified fashion) – as that’s the only script as of now that has a patch for 10.15.1+ with eGPU icon. I don’t think they are capable enough to retrieve the patch from that script, add it to automate-eGPU EFI config.plist and apply it (its easy to do, but still I doubt those guys could). If they had used automate-eGPU EFI as is, they would have a working eGPU but without the icon in the menubar.

Thank you for the CES coverage @itsage. The Lenovo enclosure looks very compelling. That Zotac lineup of mini-PCs is awesome. Looking forward to see what Mantiz have up their sleeve (edit: cool).

I agree they’re using your script. My direct question to them was how Thunderbolt eGPU on the 2014 13″ MacBook Pro was enabled. There were attempts at stating Intel and Apple are helping them, non-direct explanation, and even saying their English was not good enough to fully describing their solution. Body language was very clear to me; they don’t have a solution.

Although I was not able to see the inside or check Thunderbolt tree in System Information, my camera captured what looked like the Radeon [R] cube on Radeon VII graphics card. Their claims of Thunderbolt 3 monitor output is wishful thinking. I inquired Mantiz and TUL about this possibility with new Radeon cards and eGPU enclosures and they said it would take a lot of work and significant costs.

These two photos show the enclosure build quality or lack thereof. They stated aluminum construction but it felt like plastic to me. The I/O openings are as followed:

SD CARD SLOT
 
USB-A USB-A
USB-A USB-A
TB3 TB3 TB3
DP DP
 
ETHERNET
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Thank you. 
Your information go hand in hand with how other “creators” have done their marketing.
 
Many of LPs statements are taken from thin air or are simply only wishful thinking. 

Their ideas are good and would be very nice to have but they appear to be nothing more than ideas. And a black plastic box under the Norwegian flag. 

If they had a white box solution it would already be certified and ready. Like the Lenovo box. 

If they had their own hardware developer they would pimp that asset and how they have overcome some advanced technical difficulties.
And even if they actually had bought the development from an outside source they would be very proud of the achievements and show it off. 

But as they say in their financial run for money they will do heavy social media coms. And that’s all.

They have actually not shown any trustworthy information or evidence  to support their claims and ensure a potential buyer that they can deliver on their promises.

They have several development boxes but can’t show them. 
They do benchmarks but can’t show them.

The need to have the product developed because Kickstarter do not allow raising funds to do development. 
Or they does like Exklim did and pull a fast one. 🙂

This post was modified 2 weeks ago

Present: 2012 Mac mini + PowerColor RX 56 Vega Nano @10Gbps-TB1 +
PowerColor eGFX Mini 180F via TB3->TB2 adapter + macOS Mojave

Previous: 2012 Mac Mini + [email protected] (AKiTiO Thunder3 via TB3->TB2 adapter) + macOS


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