BlackBeast Pro eGPU - KickStarter Project Exposed
 
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BlackBeast Pro eGPU - KickStarter Project Exposed  

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(@windfallx_yt)
New Member
Joined: 6 months ago
 

It seems very ambitious, but I know very little. 

One question: As I understand it, you need two TB ports, correct?

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: @lagarhus

BlackBeast Pro will be equipped with two Titan Ridge controllers. One for the GPU only, and one for the ports, hard drive and daisy chain. A computer with multiple TB buses like the MacBook Pro 15 and Mac mini can full advantage of the dual controllers by using two cables partitioned over two TB buses and utilize x8 PCIe lanes.

Understood. If you connect both cables to the same Thunderbolt controller bandwidth is limited (for example, if you connect two Thunderbolt drives to the same controller and try to RAID 0 them together, you can get only 23 Gbps (slightly more than a single drive a 22 Gbps). But if the two drives are connected to two different controllers, then you can get much more speed 5000 MB/s.

Posted by: @lagarhus

You can use monitors with both the Thunderbolt 3 port for daisy chain and the dual DisplayPort 1.4. It let you connect a display to the GPU of eGPU through daisy chain and DisplayPort.  The prioritizing is the same as in the Thunderbolt firmware.

This part is not clear. Yes you can connect a display to a downstream (daisy chain) Thunderbolt 3 port (in this case, the display can be a Thunderbolt display, a USB-C display, or a USB-C to DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI/VGA adapter). It is not clear if this downstream Thunderbolt 3 port is getting DisplayPort signals from the computer (like with most Thunderbolt daisy chains) or from the GPU (like with the Blackmagic eGPU).

You say you can connect monitors to the dual DisplayPort 1.4. So that means they are outputs. Are both output from one Thunderbolt controller or one output from each controller? For the Thunderbolt controller with downstream Thunderbolt port, the DisplayPort must come from the DisplayPort output of the Thunderbolt controller. If the second DisplayPort output comes from the same controller, then that means there's an MST hub which macOS doesn't support. Therefore, the second DisplayPort output must come from the eGPU's Thunderbolt controller. Does it come from the DisplayPort output of the eGPU's Thunderbolt controller or from the downstream Thunderbolt port? Or maybe both DisplayPort outputs come from the eGPU's Thunderbolt controller?

You say a display connected to the daisy chain Thunderbolt 3 port, or the DisplayPort 1.4 outputs (which is it?) will get DisplayPort signals from the GPU of the eGPU, but that's not possible if you don't have DisplayPort inputs to the Thunderbolt controllers. The DisplayPort signals will come from the iGPU or dGPU of the computer (the computer's Thunderbolt controller has DisplayPort inputs from the iGPU or dGPU).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@windfallx_yt

Yes. It is a dock + eGPU combined into a single product. The dock and eGPU have separate Thunderbolt connections. I suppose you can choose to connect only one of them to use only the dock or only the eGPU. Another possibility (if you only want to use one Thunderbolt port of the computer) is to connect the eGPU to the dock (there's a third Thunderbolt port for daisy chaining). I had to restart my Mac mini 2018 to get this to work with my eGPU and dock in this configuration.

It's like the eGPUs that have two Thunderbolt 3 controllers (Razer Core X Chroma, Razer Core V2, Powercolor/VisionTek mini) where one controller is connected to the other controller via Thunderbolt internally on the PCB. I don't recall if the first or second Thunderbolt controller in those eGPUs connects the GPU. The other Thunderbolt controller connects the USB and other ports. They did this to get around some problem in the Thunderbolt controller where it would misbehave when both USB and GPU are connected to a single controller.

With the BlackBeast Pro you have the choice of connecting the second (eGPU) Thunderbolt controller to the computer or to the first (dock) Thunderbolt controller.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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mac_editor
(@mac_editor)
Famed Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@lagarhus

I know that the Mac Pro 2013 does not official supports eGPU due to poor experience. They have also said, they would love to implement eGPU in older Macs, especially in the Mac Pro . BlackBeast Pro will let you use two cables and with TB3 to TB2 adapter, you can utilize two Thunderbolt buses in the Mac Pro . The result will be a much better experience. This is an ongoing process with Apple and Intel, but we have a very strong case.

Poor experience isn’t the reason for no eGPU support, but let’s forget that. Could you clarify? Who are “they?” You say this is an ongoing process with Apple - are you saying that you will convince them to add eGPU support for the 2013 Mac Pro? I know how the eGFX box will connect with the Mac Pro, but as facts stand, eGPU is not officially supported on non-Thunderbolt 3 macs and likely never will, and your website advertises 2013 Mac Pro gaining a significant performance boost when clearly that is not likely to happen (officially). Therefore it is a false claim. Also note that if you plan on selling the eGPU with “software” that 2013 Mac Pro users might have to install to get it running, then I’m letting you know in advance that both automate-eGPU EFI and purge-wrangler (and any of their components, including patches) licenses prohibit any commercial use in any form. The only thing that will work on the 2013 Mac Pro with your eGFX out of the box are the ports.

purge-wranglertbt-flashpurge-nvdaset-eGPU
Insights Into macOS Video Editing Performance

Master Threads:
2014 15-inch MacBook Pro 750M
2018 15-inch MacBook Pro

 
2019 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + RX Vega 64 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + macOS 10.14.6 & Win10 [build link]  


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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: @mac_editor

In the same section, the image used shows a MacBook Pro (presumably) connecting to the eGFX box with 2 thunderbolt cables on 1 side. This implies that the maximum bandwidth for the eGPU and other PCIe connection is 16Gbps each if I’m not mistaken (I believe @nando4 had an explanation which I missed/couldn’t find but remember - pls feel free to correct). They should be connected on different sides for max. bandwidth. Nevertheless, that's a minor thing.

The dual-port TB3 controllers attach to the PCH/CPU via a x4 3.0 (32Gbps) PCIe link.  So if both were transmitting at full bandwidth at the same time (eg: NVME-TB3 storage + eGPU) then they'd each be limited to 16Gbps. 

There are two dual-port TB3 controllers on Macbooks, one on the left and the other on the right side. So can load balance by attaching to either side. Though the 13" MBP's TB3 controllers are  hosted by the PCH whose traffic goes to the CPU via a x4 3.0 type DMI link. So have a second bandwidth limit again. The 15" has TB3 controllers attached to the CPU directly so has no such limit and is then better suited to load balancing across TB3 ports on either side of the system.

 

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

 
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 [build link]  


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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: @nando4

The dual-port TB3 controllers attach to the PCH/CPU via a x4 3.0 (32Gbps) PCIe link.  So if both were transmitting at full bandwidth at the same time (eg: NVME-TB3 storage + eGPU) then they’d each be limited to 16Gbps. 

They would be limited to 32 Gbps total. For example, one could use 20 if the other is using only 12. But like I said, the Thunderbolt 3 controller is not that good. I tried using two ports of the same Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 controller with two NVMe drives with RAID 0 and couldn't get more than 23 Gbps - only slightly more than a single NVMe drive. I could only get beyond that (up to 5000 MB/s) when the two NVMe drives were connected to two different Thunderbolt controllers. So, even on a 13" MacBook Pro with two Thunderbolt controllers behind the x4 3.0 DMI link, it is still better to use two different controllers instead of one.

Maybe someone else can reproduce my test with two eGPUs connected to the same Thunderbolt controller. Then run two instances of a benchmark like CL!ng, one for each eGPU. This might not be a real test if they don't run the benchmark continuously (if one pauses between iterations, then the other could get a higher score).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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Lagarhus
(@lagarhus)
Eminent Member
Joined: 12 months ago
 

We will provide a video to showcase BlackBeast Pro and features. We are busy with commercials this week, but I will provide it in the weekend. Thanks for your patience!

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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ttamnogard
(@ttamnogard)
Trusted Member
Joined: 10 months ago
 

Am I the only one that thinks @lagarhus should send a working prototype to one of the admin?

 

Want sell product, get buy-in from @nando4 @itsage or @mac_editor 

So far, I have had nothing but success following their instructions and listening to their advice. You should consider it too...

This post was modified 6 months ago

2018 Mac mini + Razer Core X + Radeon vii

 
2018 Mac Mini [8th,6C,B] + Radeon VII @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X) + macOS 10.14.6 & Win10 [build link]  


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motoic
(@tsh3721)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: @lagarhus

We will provide a video to showcase BlackBeast Pro and features. We are busy with commercials this week, but I will provide it in the weekend. Thanks for your patience!

I am having trouble understanding what differentiates your eGPU box from all of the other ones on the market. My understanding from this thread is that you have not added the capability to connect eGPUs to 5k and 6k monitors. This is the feature which is missing from all eGPUs today except for the Black Magic. If you have not added this feature, what are the benefits of your eGPU? 

2018 15" MBP w/ Radeon Pro 560x
Nvidia GTX 1070
Akitio Node
32" LG 32UD99-W at 4k
macOS Mojave, Bootcamp Windows 10

 
2015 15" MacBook Pro (R9 M370X) [4th,4C,H] + GTX 1070 @ 16Gbps-TB2>TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 [build link]  


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DanKnight
(@danknight)
Ex-AKITIO Tech
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Been away for a year, so seeing this is pretty interesting. Can't wait to see some performance videos. I'm assuming the current performance tab with all the benchmarks is benchmarks with your device with just the use of eGPU, but what about eGPU performance when everything is being used; monitors, usb devices, storage and etc.

 

How are the Thunderbolt cables going to be connected? One to the left controller and one to the right controller? They for sure cannot be connected to one controller. If it's connected on both sides, I assume a new firmware is in the works to allow this to happen.

ex-AKiTiO Employee as of August 2018.


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