List of Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Devices
 
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List of Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Devices  

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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

Hello community,

I will kick things off with the first confirmed device with Titan Ridge controllers: the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 with JHL7440 chipset (8086:15ef/15f0).

The datasheet details functionality with both Thunderbolt and USB-C Alt-Mode hosts - which can only mean the JHL7440.
http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA7-1989ENW.pdf

As you people discover the new products, please kindly post them here with links, and evidence / proof of it being Titan Ridge.

They should start to come out at the same time as the Intel Z390 chipset, which has the Titan Ridge built in. The Linux 4.17 kernel has become stable, and brings Titan Ridge driver support, so Intel are set and ready... to get trolled by the AMD Z490 chipset.

Cheers!

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

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joevt
(@joevt)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

The information in the data sheet for the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 is confusing. How is more than two displays supported in Thunderbolt mode without MST? How does USB-C mode support more than one display without MST? Are the 5 ports independent or are some linked? Here are the slightly different specs in non-pdf format
https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05913756

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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ha1o2surfer
(@se12897)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

MST DP and TB3 live on the same cable at the same time so I don't see that being an issue?

I use a TB3 > TB2 adapter after a couple of TB2 devices using a MST hub and it works fine with 3 monitors 3 ways down the chain. That's why TB3 is split up so MST can be active even when thunderbolt mode is activated.

2018 13" HP Spectre X360 [8th,4C,U] + GTX 1070 @ 32Gbps-TB3 (Sonnet Breakaway 550) + Win10 [build link]  

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joevt
(@joevt)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

True, MST works over Thunderbolt. You could probably connect two MST hubs (the total number of displays allowed will be limited by bandwidth and graphics driver). What we need to know is the bandwidth limits so we can understand the display counts and resolution limits better. The Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt controller JHL6540 has two paths for DiplayPort output. Two DisplayPorts can come from the Thunderbolt port, or one from the Thunderbolt port and one from a DisplayPort output.

I don't know what the JHL7440 adds compared to the JHL6540 besides allowing DisplayPort 1.4 instead of just DisplayPort 1.2, and USB-C + DisplayPort alt mode input (to a Thunderbolt port?).

The HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 has 5 display outputs: Thunderbolt, USB-C alt mode, DisplayPort 1, DisplayPort 2, VGA. We don't know which of those are connected to the same MST hub, and what each MST hub (more than one?) is connected to on the Thunderbolt 3 controller. The DisplayPorts might be one MST hub, as they show no configuration for those two ports with two displays at 4K from DP 1.2 Thunderbolt host. They show 4K x 2 for DP 1.3 Thunderbolt host. Couldn't they show 2K x 2 for DP 1.2 host?

They don't have any configuration examples for the VGA port. Maybe the VGA port uses a switch therefore can't be used with some of the ports.

The specs I linked don't show Operating Systems. The pdf document you linked shows macOS support, but macOS doesn't support MST, so the number of displays should be limited to two for Thunderbolt mode and one for USB-C mode. We need to know how the ports are connected to know which can be used simultaneously. Maybe Apple will add MST support for better Titan Ridge compatibility when they finish the new Mac Pro?

Another thing: what ports are usable in USB-C mode? Ethernet? It appears that in USB-C mode, the dock allows only two lanes of DisplayPort so the USB 3.0 ports can operate at USB 3.0 speeds. So why would the Thunderbolt port be limited to USB 2.0 speeds in USB-C mode?

Here's a link to the dock with Audio Module added:  http://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/getpdf.aspx/4AA7-2993ENW.pdf

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@joevt Thunderbolt does nothing except transport from A to B. Whereas a USB controller appears with all the devices behind it, and converts from PCIe to USB ports, Thunderbolt is simply a means of delivering other standards. Those are PCIe and DisplayPort. DisplayPort was chosen because of its routable nature. Thunderbolt can carry 2x DP streams (8 lanes). A normal DP cable is 4 lanes of DisplayPort protocol. So Thunderbolt can deliver to two monitors without using the MST features (although technically MST is part of how DP is transcribed onto the Thunderbolt cable). That is assuming there are two DP streams to the host Thunderbolt controller from the GPU. Some manufacturers only provide one. The vendors of the Thunderbolt 3 -> Dual DP adapters will have disclaimers about this.
But that aside, because Thunderbolt just carries the signal from A to B (can be thought of as PCIe 3.0 x4 cable and 2x DisplayPort cables jammed together with power delivery), the end device can just hook a MST hub chip to the DisplayPort output of the Thunderbolt controller. Just as you can connect MST hubs straight to your GPU with plain DisplayPort.
For plain USB-C alt-mode DP to drive two displays, there must be a MST hub - although it could already be built into Titan Ridge (who knows?), alleviating the need for a separate chip. It is likely, because otherwise you can have the JHL7440 chip hooked up to 2x 3840x2160p 60Hz monitors, via two DP outputs on the dock, and then when it is plugged into USB-C (non-Thunderbolt), one monitor would fail to work at all. That would need some crazy muxxing going on, adding to the complexity and discouraging OEMs from using the technology.

I don't understand the confusion - is this to do with Titan Ridge in particular, or are you confused at Thunderbolt in general?

About the Thunderbolt port being limited to USB 2.0, it is basically saying in stupid people language that the port cannot have Thunderbolt functionality. So people don't think they can add Thunderbolt devices after the dock, with their USB-C computer. Not that I have read it that closely. Theoretically it could have USB 3.0 (as in, the Thunderbolt 3 port acting as plain USB-C, with or without DP alt-mode). But perhaps it was easier just to avoid it. Also the USB-C cable has D+ and D- wires (honestly a massive waste, IMO), so perhaps it is feeding them right through.

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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: ha1o2surfer

MST DP and TB3 live on the same cable at the same time so I don't see that being an issue?

I use a TB3 > TB2 adapter after a couple of TB2 devices using a MST hub and it works fine with 3 monitors 3 ways down the chain. That's why TB3 is split up so MST can be active even when thunderbolt mode is activated.

Please explain what you mean. From what it sounds like, what you are claiming to have done is impossible (TB3->TB2 adapters do not support DP alt-mode; only DP through Thunderbolt protocol). Like please map out the device chain, adapters, MST hub and monitors. Thanks.

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

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joevt
(@joevt)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: karatekid430

I don't understand the confusion - is this to do with Titan Ridge in particular, or are you confused at Thunderbolt in general?

No confusion. I don't think anything you said disagrees with what I said. My questions relate to implementation details that are not described explicitly or explained by the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2.

Posted by: karatekid430

About the Thunderbolt port being limited to USB 2.0, it is basically saying in stupid people language that the port cannot have Thunderbolt functionality. So people don't think they can add Thunderbolt devices after the dock, with their USB-C computer.

Agreed.

Posted by: karatekid430

Theoretically it could have USB 3.0 (as in, the Thunderbolt 3 port acting as plain USB-C, with or without DP alt-mode). But perhaps it was easier just to avoid it.

I would think all the logic to support a USB 3.1 gen 2 connection would be inside the Thunderbolt controller for that port. Thunderbolt is a complicated thing and this simplification seems out of place. Maybe another implementation detail we're not seeing.

Posted by: karatekid430

Also the USB-C cable has D+ and D- wires (honestly a massive waste, IMO), so perhaps it is feeding them right through.

Not a waste in the LG UltraFine 4K which uses all 4 super speed lanes for DisplayPort 1.2, and those high speed D+/D- wires for USB 2.0 ports.

Posted by: karatekid430

Please explain what you mean. From what it sounds like, what you are claiming to have done is impossible (TB3->TB2 adapters do not support DP alt-mode; only DP through Thunderbolt protocol). Like please map out the device chain, adapters, MST hub and monitors.

I think ha1o2surfer's statement is missing some punctuation and needs some slight rewording, like this:
I use a TB3 > TB2 adapter. After a couple of TB2 devices, a MST hub is used and it works fine with 3 monitors 3 ways down the chain.

The TB3->TB2 adapter passes a Thunderbolt encapsulated DisplayPort stream that a Thunderbolt controller in a Thunderbolt device later in the chain can convert to DisplayPort. The MST hub must be connected to a Thunderbolt controller's DisplayPort output.

So the device chain must be like this: Thunderbolt 3 computer -> Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter -> first Thunderbolt 2 device -> ... -> last Thunderbolt 2 device -> MST hub ->>> three displays. This can support 2560 x 1440 + 2560 x 1440 + 1920 x 1200 all at 60 Hz using just one DisplayPort connection. Thunderbolt can support two DisplayPort connections, but maybe his motherboard only has one DisplayPort connection to the Thunderbolt controller (like in my Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7).

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Here's an eGPU using Titan Ridge:

[Unboxing] Blackmagic eGPU Radeon Pro 580 Thunderbolt 3 Enclosure

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: joevt

Here's an eGPU using Titan Ridge:

[Unboxing] Blackmagic eGPU Radeon Pro 580 Thunderbolt 3 Enclosure

Nice. It appears to have daisy chaining, which is usually prohibited with eGPUs by Intel.

On the down side, the GPU appears to be integrated and not replaceable. Plus, it has HDMI instead of DisplayPort. Also 87W PD is sad. Again, they should have gone all the way to 100W.

I found the first laptop with Titan Ridge - Lenovo P52 with JHL7540 - assuming what this guy says is accurate. There are no signs of Thunderbolt in the dump, because the OP clearly has no clue and did not force_power to the Thunderbolt first.  https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/122347/hardware-issues-with-fedora-28-on-lenovo-p52/

Seriously, can't they give the privilege of examining unreleased hardware to somebody knowledgeable? Like a BIOS engineer or somebody with low-level knowledge.

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

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joevt
(@joevt)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Macbook Pro 2018 has Titan Ridge. Stupid Apple specs don't mention DisplayPort 1.4 (or even DisplayPort 1.2).
MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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