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List of Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Devices
 

List of Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Devices  

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wimpzilla
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@solocamper

You are right, the intel iGPU do not support DP 1.4, still i think an Intel iGPU DP update is planed, from what i got it's graphic department is quite active atm.

In the 1st link i posted above, you got the latest "leaks" about the incoming product, there is a slide dedicated to the iGPU.

Still Titan Ridge can be used to port DP 1.4 from a dGPU, but surely the hardware implementation is much more complicated than simply route the iGPU to DP as it is commonly used now.

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karatekid430
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Posted by: solocamper

I would appreciate if you could stop spreading misinformation.  The Z390 has intel chip with integrated graphics.  Intel's integrated graphics do not support DP 1.4, at least to my knowledge.  Which means no Titan Ridge support.   unless I am wrong, please correction me.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I understand your reasoning. But that did not stop the 2018 Macbook Pro with integrated graphics being released with Titan Ridge controllers, but only being able to output DisplayPort 1.2 signals. The Macbook Pro 2018 with Radeon graphics supports DisplayPort 1.4. Plus Z390 was slated a long ago as containing Titan Ridge. It was only recently that those plans were axed because of pressure on existing process nodes due to delays in new processes (lithography, nanometers). That meant there was less available capacity to manufacture on the planned process than previously expected, so they decided to rebrand the existing Z370 chipset instead. So no fancy new features. It is disappointing because it would have increased adoption by lessening the burden of implementation and extra costs on the OEMs.

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karatekid430
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Now, on to why I am here....

You guys have no idea how long and hard I have waited for this day....

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GC-Titan-Ridge-Thunderbolt-Component/dp/B07GBZL93X

FINALLY.

It's beautiful despite the HDMI port. And given the extra power connectors at the back, it is fairly safe to say it has 100W power delivery like Gigabyte hinted to me months ago....

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joevt
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Posted by: karatekid430

It's beautiful despite the HDMI port. And given the extra power connectors at the back, it is fairly safe to say it has 100W power delivery like Gigabyte hinted to me months ago....

In the picture, The GC-TITAN RIDGE appears to have a DisplayPort. The GC-ALPINE RIDGE had an HDMI port. I wonder if the DisplayPort supports DisplayPort Dual-Mode (DP++) and if that includes HDMI 2.0? Dual-Mode with HDMI 2.0 support is mandatory for DisplayPort 1.3 according to wikipedia.

The picture also shows that the GC-TITAN RIDGE is slightly longer than the GC-ALPINE RIDGE but still shorter than a half length PCIe card.

Is the 100W of power delivery per Thunderbolt 3 port or total? I guess you could charge a laptop with this? I suppose you need to check your desktop's power supply to make sure it can handle that.

I assume the power is for Thunderbolt 3 peripherals (add-in card acts as a source) and not the desktop (add-in card as a sink) because desktops need much more than 100W.

Gigabyte hasn't posted a product page, manuals, firmware, compatibility list yet?

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wimpzilla
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@karatekid430 @ joevt

From the picture, if true, the card own 2*6pin connectors along with the PCI-E power delivery.
Each 6pin connector is rated for 75W, so +/- [email protected], plus the 75W delivered by the PCI-E slot.
So the card have a maximum power draw of 150W if one use both connectors, [email protected]
The 75W PCI-E power delivery would be used to power the logic of the card and not used as source of current for powering the TBT port.

Nevertheless laptop charging hardware often run on 20v, that is then steeped down to the other majors rails, 12v, 5v, 3.3v etc.
So the total power delivered by the TBT card is related to the VRM circuit that care about steeping up 12v to 20v.
Hence the total power delivery of this card is 140W, much less if one consider the VRM loss due to stepping up the voltage.
So if a good and efficient buck converted have been implemented to power the TBT port of the card, one could suppose you would go up to 140W of power delivery.

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joevt
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I don't understand your math. Where does 6.4A come from when 75W/12V=6.25A? Where does 140W come from when 75W+75W=150W? Where does 13A come from when 140W/12V=11.6A and 150W/12V=12.5A

Why can't the 75W of PCIe power delivery also be used as a source of current for powering the TBT port, as that's the only source used by the GC-ALPINE RIDGE?

Also, the card is x4 so it can only expect 25W from the PCIe slot. So max would be 75W+75W+25W=175W. But maybe the 25W is only for the logic of the card.

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wimpzilla
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@joevt

I did the math quickly, if you have more time that i have to explain stuff, copy my post and write:
"Fixed for you" with quotes, with the right numbers, instead writing quote: "I don't understand your math!"

Nevertheless aside my bad math skills, since i'm a biologist engineer you know, an user get the idea i suppose on the max power delivery of this card!
And as i said these numbers are just an approximation, one need to check the VRM buck converter quality to really leverage the current allowed to the charge!

Also you answered yourself the question, simply 75W is the max for the PCI-E power delivery!
I would not use the PCI-E slot as source of power when burst of current are needed for charging!
Hence the 75W is more dedicated to power low current devices cards, if one want decent power delivery, it use the external power supply wires.
Simply because users and manufacturers do not like have holes in the motherboard pcb due to the current overload of the 12v PCI-E rail.
In general even if the PCI-E 12v rail is specified for 75W, rarely manufacturers will allow the device card reach or exceed 75W of constant sustained power consumption.

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joevt
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Posted by: wimpzilla

@joevt

I did the math quickly, if you have more time that i have to explain stuff, copy my post and write:
"Fixed for you" with quotes, with the right numbers, instead writing quote: "I don't understand your math!"

Nevertheless aside my bad math skills, since i'm a biologist engineer you know, an user get the idea i suppose on the max power delivery of this card!
And as i said these numbers are just an approximation, one need to check the VRM buck converter quality to really leverage the current allowed to the charge!

Writing "fixed for you" would require me to know for sure that you were making up numbers or approximating them. It's possible you were using some sources and formula that I don't know about, so I wrote what I guessed your numbers might be coming from so that you could confirm or deny and explain the difference.

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wimpzilla
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@joevt

Power in Watt = Voltage x Current.

As i said i did the math quickly, instead of rounding 6.25A to 6.3A i get straight to 6.4A by mistake.
I corrected the old post tho, fixing the other mistake i did on the 140W, i forgot that 2.5 +2.5= 4. ^^
I gave indicative values just for the sake, mentioning +/- at the beginning of the post.
So again yes i did it quickly, yes i'm bad at math, and yes maybe i supposed wrongly you would know the basic ohms laws, sorry my bad!

Also i try to give a more realistic value, so again not sure the card really need 150W for the TBT power delivery and on overall i would say the card would output from 120W to 140W max, looking at what the specs are.
Making me think that if a 2x6pin is used, the PCI-E rail would be used to power the logic of the card, instead taking care of TBT charging.

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joevt
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Posted by: wimpzilla

@joevt

maybe i supposed wrongly you would know the basic ohms laws, sorry my bad!

That's funny. I thought you didn't know ohm's law since none of your numbers matched in V=IR.

Posted by: wimpzilla

Also i try to give a more realistic value, so again not sure the card really need 150W for the TBT power delivery and on overall i would say the card would output from 120W to 140W max, looking at what the specs are.
Making me think that if a 2x6pin is used, the PCI-E rail would be used to power the logic of the card, instead taking care of TBT charging.

The Power Delivery feature is really interesting. Does any desktop Thunderbolt port provide this amount of power? Is this really intended for charging laptops? Does Gigabyte have some other use case in mind?

They have a web page now: GC-TITAN RIDGE (rev. 1.0)

Some specs:
Port 1 : Support 5V/3A 9V/3A 15V/3A 20V/5A Power Delivery Spec
Port 2 : Support 5V/3A 9V/3A Power Delivery Spec
Supported motherboards: H370/B360-series

So they have 45W and 100W on port 1. Both ports also support 15W and 27W. That works out, as 127W is less than the 150W allowed by the inputs.

They might not want to add firmware support in Z170 and Z270 motherboards to force people to buy newer motherboards? What about Z370? Z370 is older than H370 and doesn't have some of the features of H370 (such as USB 3.1 gen 2).

The manual describes the DisplayPort connector as an "In" but I think that might be an error. No mention of HDMI support.

The manual mentions a USB 2.0/1.1 header to be connected to a motherboard's USB header. Does this mean that Titan Ridge only provides USB 3.1 gen 2 support and that support for USB 2.0/1.1 must come from the motherboard? Very strange. GC-ALPINE RIDGE was not like that. Maybe it's a method to lock the add-in card to H370/B360-series motherboards - a USB driver may be necessary to enable the functions of the add-in card?

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wimpzilla
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@joevt

Yeah i know, you are not here on this forum for help or provide any kind of useful information to others users, that is not what you are allowed/want to give.

That's how a lot of your post feel to me!

But that's fine, if you are allowed to post in this way, there is surely a reason!

Edit: And no, i do not know the reason about such power delivery on a such card.
I only gave my honest and hope useful opinion, explaining what the specs of 2*6pin connector are, it's possible usage on the card.
I said simply "charging" as synonym for powering up devices, because it's the first thing that come into my mind when using a TBT port.

 

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joevt
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I am here on this forum because the subjects are interesting to me. I provide information when I have it and I ask questions about information provided to get more information or to point out areas where information is lacking or unclear - all to improve my or others understanding of the subject. I don't know what party you believe I require allowance from to post here or to post in the way that I post. Never mind that, your entire post is inexplicable or something...

Edit: About the power delivery, I agree with your opinions and explanations. Charging is one aspect that may be allowed by this card. I am curious to know what other kinds of devices (besides laptops) it may be useful for. If anyway knows, please post here.

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wimpzilla
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@joevt

Honestly you are not improving me on any subject that we spoke about.
But at the end who care right!

@itsage

Since the power delivery topic seems somehow an important TBT feature, i would inquire if you could maybe get in touch with some companies to test the enclosures real PD.
I think it could be another nice thing to add into the site review, since i did not saw other sites providing this info.

I know it is possible to leverage the USB 3.1 power delivery with simple USB key meters, but not sure with TBT it would be an easy task.

Nevertheless i would inquire if some companies do sell kits to leverage also TBT PD.
I found these couple of products but not sure it will work out to test enclosures TBT PD, maybe it worth to look at it if interested:


Worth to note that not all these analysers can leverage 100W of PD.

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
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joevt
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Posted by: wimpzilla

@joevt

Honestly you are not improving me on any subject that we spoke about.
But at the end who care right!

I care. I apologize if I offended you in some way. Sorry.

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wimpzilla
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@joevt

You have nothing to apologise, it's fine you are not being rude, nor impolite.

I'm more than happy to loose my time on arguing on things, calling BS on me when i mistake but not when it need extensive explanation for a math error you could just had pointed, fixed and moved on the next topic, since you clearly shown being a quite knowledgeable user already.

Edit:
To come back to your previous question, i'm not sure this new Titan Ridge card have a specific power delivery purpose.
If i check the site advertising, i suppose the manufacturer aimed to daisy chain a lot of devices, up to 6 per port plus a display.
Tho citing the PD 3.0 as a feature, supported up to 100W.

I checked the USB PD power 3.0 specification here.
It seems to me that the PD power need to follow some strict precise rules for each PD power range, see the figure page 471.

Captureb

To be honest with you, i tried to think about nowadays/leaked hardware devices that would need to be powered and used on desktop or workstations.
But i couldn't find one easily just looking at what already exist, since most of the TBT devices are also self powered.
So at the end maybe the card was developed as it is to simply conform USB PD specifications for 100W, that obviously nor fit with the max 75W PCI-E specification.
And i do not see anything strange implementing the card in this way, from a desktop, workstation usage and branding point of view.

Maybe the only thing that come into mind would be all the FPGA and IoT devices powered and daisy chained over TBT.
This is another field where intel is pretty active and where I/O solutions are quite important to deal with the growing amount of data FPGA could take.

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joevt
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I wasn't calling BS on you though. I honestly did not know it was a math error. Fixing your comment would have been too presumptuous of me in that case.

The site advertising is not indicative of the manufacturer's aim to daisy chain, as that has been a feature of Thunderbolt since the first iteration (Thunderbolt 1) and the image of daisy chaining 6 Thunderbolt devices plus displays has been used since then. What's new is the image of 8K displays. Also new (I don't recall seeing it before) is the image of daisy chaining three displays (shown in the manual), but that is just the MST feature of DisplayPort 1.2 which even Thunderbolt 2 is capable.

It might be nice if there were Thunderbolt devices that could use that power so they would not require their own power supplies. They would have to be built to allow power from either source to make them compatible with most existing implementations of Thunderbolt.

The take away from that PD image is that standard modes have voltages at 5V, 9V, 15V, 20V with maximum power of 15W, 27W, 45W, 100W respectively. Current is not to exceed 3A except in the case of 20V where more than 60W is required, in which case a 5A cable is required. A source with a certain power rating must allow for all the standard voltages up to the minimum standard voltage required for that power rating. The PD spec goes on to mention that different voltages can be programmed between 3V and 21V for specific devices but the source must also support all standard modes up to it's specified power rating. The programmed modes can allow lower voltages to use higher currents up to 5A or they can allow higher voltages at lower currents.

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karatekid430
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Yikes guys, that is a lot of mathematics, and to prove what? Also last time I checked, Molex is 75W and 6-pin is 150W. But they might only be interested in one voltage from the connector, meaning there could be less available for them to use. I hope that they are not relying on the 75W from the PCIe slot, as it would make a kick-arse charging station outside of a computer simply by connecting it to a power supply with the 6-pin connectors. If it needs the PCIe slot power also, then that means a cumbersome riser to power that. Especially if it needs 3.3V from the slot, which not all risers provide (either need to use SATA power instead of Molex, or make 3.3V from other voltages with a decent buck converter).

Given the following:
a) Earlier on this year, an employee at Gigabyte hinted to me that GC-TITAN RIDGE was coming, and to think 100W
b) 2x 6-pin power is double what my R9 Nano graphics cards have

We can safely assume that both ports are likely 100W. I can use my USB PD Buddy Sink to read out the capabilities when I receive my 2x GC-TITAN RIDGE cards I ordered.

I hope they are not as dodgy as the last one - the GC-ALPINE RIDGE is noncompliant, violates superset rule. It has [email protected] and [email protected] Chargers must support all lower voltages at 3A than their maximum voltage (with 12V being the exception, that is optional). So it should have [email protected] in there too, to comply with the PD specification.

Their GA-Z170X-DESIGNARE has the 5V, 12V (3A) on one Thunderbolt port, and the other is 5V, 12V (3A) and [email protected] (it should have [email protected] and [email protected] to be compliant).

The Gigabyte Aorus Gaming Box is compliant - [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] It would have been nice if they included the optional 12V mode - for instance, I am fairly sure the SurfaceConnect to USB-C dongle by Microsoft will use 12V.

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karatekid430
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Posted by: joevt
Posted by: karatekid430

It's beautiful despite the HDMI port. And given the extra power connectors at the back, it is fairly safe to say it has 100W power delivery like Gigabyte hinted to me months ago....

In the picture, The GC-TITAN RIDGE appears to have a DisplayPort. The GC-ALPINE RIDGE had an HDMI port. I wonder if the DisplayPort supports DisplayPort Dual-Mode (DP++) and if that includes HDMI 2.0? Dual-Mode with HDMI 2.0 support is mandatory for DisplayPort 1.3 according to wikipedia.

The picture also shows that the GC-TITAN RIDGE is slightly longer than the GC-ALPINE RIDGE but still shorter than a half length PCIe card.

Is the 100W of power delivery per Thunderbolt 3 port or total? I guess you could charge a laptop with this? I suppose you need to check your desktop's power supply to make sure it can handle that.

I assume the power is for Thunderbolt 3 peripherals (add-in card acts as a source) and not the desktop (add-in card as a sink) because desktops need much more than 100W.

Gigabyte hasn't posted a product page, manuals, firmware, compatibility list yet?

It did occur to me that it might look like a DisplayPort, instead of a HDMI. However, those two pictures are all we have to go on right now.... there do not appear to be others - as you say - Gigabyte has not yet published anything.

Given the GA-Z170X-DESIGNARE said 100W and their Aorus Facebook support told me that both ports were 100W simultaneously, it could be that only one is 100W (on the motherboard, one is 100W and the other is 36W). However, the Asus USB 3.1 PD Bay does 100W power delivery from two Molex (150W) so this 2x 6-pin (300W) implies that both ports would deliver 100W to justify that.

Yes, the power will be to peripherals. The Thunderbolt controllers themselves only use 2-3W. Given that the older Thunderbolt 3 AICs were (afaik) all 2x 36W ports with no aux power connectors, that leaves 75W-2*36W = 3W left for the logic circuitry.

Edit: Here's a possible explanation as to why they have not published it. It is not featured on the Thunderbolt Technology products list, which means it has not passed certification. Perhaps it has passed but has not yet been issued a certificate. But then again, if this is the reason, then why would it be on sale? Could Amazon have jumped the gun with stock that was meant to be withheld until a deadline?

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=16&field_company_nid=All&field_prod_os_value_many_to_one=All&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=tbv3

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joevt
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Posted by: karatekid430

last time I checked, Molex is 75W and 6-pin is 150W. But they might only be interested in one voltage from the connector, meaning there could be less available for them to use.

6-pin is 75W. 8-pin is 150W. They only have 12V lines (from PCI Express in wikipedia)

Posted by: karatekid430

I hope that they are not relying on the 75W from the PCIe slot ... the GC-ALPINE RIDGE is noncompliant, violates superset rule. It has [email protected] and [email protected]

I don't think the PCIe slot provides more than 25W as that's the max for a x4 slot (also from PCI Express in wikipedia). Are you sure the GC-ALPINE RIDGE is using more than that? Well, most motherboards have x16 slots where the Thunderbolt add-in card goes. So maybe any x16 physical slot is supposed to allow 75W? Maybe the GC-ALPINE RIDGE can work in a 25W or a 75W slot, and adjusts power delivery options accordingly? There's probably a PCIe register that indicates the voltage of the slot. I should try to find that in the PCIe spec and use pciutils to read the current value if possible.

Posted by: karatekid430

We can safely assume that both ports are likely 100W.

Posted by: karatekid430

It did occur to me that it might look like a DisplayPort, instead of a HDMI. However, those two pictures are all we have to go on right now.... there do not appear to be others - as you say - Gigabyte has not yet published anything.

You missed my post where I mentioned they added a web page with specs and a product manual.

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wimpzilla
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Yep i did not thought that the PD transaction on USB 3.1 was so complex, happy to had dug a bit understanding that point. I mean this kind of dynamic power transaction between the devices is sure well designed. Have no idea tho if these standard are fairly respected abroad the Tech manufactures.

Another explanation would be enhancing support for devices that ere not natively TBT. Since the Titan Ridge seems offer more flexibility to connect other non TBT devices, the power delivery has been updated to match the existing wide range of non TBT hardware.

I think one can override the PCI-E 75W limitation even if tied to a smaller PCI-E bus bandwidth.
For sure i remember gpu's that pushed more than 75W from the slot, since the VRM power plane was shared with the PCI-E 6/8pin connector.
I think AMD rapidly reverted the power usage balance toward the 6/8pin keeping the PCI-E slot under 75W, something like 68/70Wmax.
As said before more for safety reasons, since the 12V PCI-E power plane is not designated to handle more than 8/10A without damages, especially on lower end boards imo.

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karatekid430
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Posted by: joevt
Posted by: karatekid430

last time I checked, Molex is 75W and 6-pin is 150W. But they might only be interested in one voltage from the connector, meaning there could be less available for them to use.

6-pin is 75W. 8-pin is 150W. They only have 12V lines (from PCI Express in wikipedia)

Posted by: karatekid430

I hope that they are not relying on the 75W from the PCIe slot ... the GC-ALPINE RIDGE is noncompliant, violates superset rule. It has [email protected] and [email protected]

I don't think the PCIe slot provides more than 25W as that's the max for a x4 slot (also from PCI Express in wikipedia). Are you sure the GC-ALPINE RIDGE is using more than that? Well, most motherboards have x16 slots where the Thunderbolt add-in card goes. So maybe any x16 physical slot is supposed to allow 75W? Maybe the GC-ALPINE RIDGE can work in a 25W or a 75W slot, and adjusts power delivery options accordingly? There's probably a PCIe register that indicates the voltage of the slot. I should try to find that in the PCIe spec and use pciutils to read the current value if possible.

Posted by: karatekid430

We can safely assume that both ports are likely 100W.

Posted by: karatekid430

It did occur to me that it might look like a DisplayPort, instead of a HDMI. However, those two pictures are all we have to go on right now.... there do not appear to be others - as you say - Gigabyte has not yet published anything.

You missed my post where I mentioned they added a web page with specs and a product manual.

Oops, missed it. The funny thing was before I posted I checked "GC-TITAN RIDGE site:gigabyte.com" on search engines and got nothing.

And the GC-ALPINE RIDGE absolutely can output 2x 36W ([email protected]) at once. If you want I can photograph charging 2x Dell 9370 off it. Afaik 75W is available regardless of slot length. Then again, the vendors are very particular about which slots are supported, so they could be drawing more than normal because they have made sure the support slots of the supported motherboards can handle it.

This is why I believe that slots should not provide any power whatsoever, with the exception of the M.2 slot (afaik 8W but no idea where I read that). Besides, PCIe 5.0 is set to be optical, so this makes sense. Can have all PCIe as SFF optical cables (like U.2), power from power supply. That will give case manufacturers massive scope for innovation and creativity in moving devices relative to the motherboard. It would make things so much more interesting.

It is also worth noting that the USB-PD specification explicitly states that any device with more than one USB-PD output must act as two separate chargers i.e. no interaction between the two, with the sole exception of regulatory compliance (I am guessing an example of which is an overload or malfunction on one port might warrant shutting down the whole device for safety). So as far as I know, that prohibits having ports sharing power, such as either port having some wattage, but not both at once.

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karatekid430
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Aw that effing sucks. On their website, only one port is 100W. So why do they need 300W of power supply connectors? Edit2: balls, so 6-pin is only 75W? My bad. But then what's the point? You would just use Molex for 75W, and Molex connectors are usually available in greater quantities from the PSU.

Edit: also what the fudge is the USB 2.0 header for? The last add-in cards did not have the USB 2.0 header cable. And it's not like it should need it - Thunderbolt controllers have their own integrated USB controllers inside.

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itsage
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Here are some information from the manual. The top DisplayPort 1.4 is an input that provides flexibility for newer high-resolution (up to 8K) monitor via Thunderbolt 3. The dual mini-DisplaPorts are for monitors such as the LG UltraFine 5K which requires MST dual-link SST via Thunderbolt 3.

Chip

Š Intel® DSL7540 ThunderboltTM 3 Controller

Back Panel Connectors

Š 1 x DisplayPort In port, supporting a maximum resolution of 8K (7680×3840)@60 Hz (Note 1) (Note 2)

* Support for DisplayPort 1.4 version, HDCP 2.2, and HDR.
Š 2 x ThunderboltTM 3 out ports (ThunderboltTM 3 Port 1/ThunderboltTM 3 Port 2), supporting up to 40 Gbps bandwidth and a maximum

display resolution of 8K (7680×3840)@60 Hz (Note 1) (Note 2) Š 2 x Mini-DisplayPort In ports (DP_IN1/DP_IN2)

Internal Connectors

Š 2 x 6-pin PCIe power connectors
Š 1 x USB 2.0/1.1 header
Š 1×5-pinJ1header,connectingtothemotherboardTHB_Cheader

by the included THB_C header cable

Interface

Š PCIe 3.0 interface (PCIe x4)

Data Transfer Rate

Š 40 Gbps Bi-directional per port

Supported Operating Systems

Š Support for Windows 10 (64-bit) with RS3 or later

Compatible Motherboards

Š Go to GIGABYTE’s website for the latest motherboard support list.

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joevt
(@joevt)
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Posted by: itsage

Here are some information from the manual. The top DisplayPort 1.4 is an input that provides flexibility for newer high-resolution (up to 8K) monitor via Thunderbolt 3. The dual mini-DisplaPorts are for monitors such as the LG UltraFine 5K which requires MST via Thunderbolt 3.

I said previously that I believe that is a typo. At least I don't think it has anything to do with 8K input as there is only one of those ports, yet the card supports two 8K displays (one per Thunderbolt port). Other parts of the manual do not include the "In" qualifier when mentioning the port. Also, If it was meant to be connected to a graphics card, then you would think they would include a cable for that, as they do for the Mini DisplayPort inputs.

It seems more likely that the DisplayPort is an output analogous to the HDMI port of the GC-ALPINE RIDGE or the HDMI or DisplayPort of a Thunderbolt dock.

Actually (I just tried it now) Google translate (of both versions of Chinese) says "1 DisplayPort output socket, can support up to 8K (7680x3840) @60Hz resolution (Note 1) (Note 2)". 

I'm not sure the LG UltraFine 5K uses MST. Apple describes the connection as dual-link SST in their support document "Connect multiple displays to your iMac Pro". MST is something that happens with a single DisplayPort connection. Dual-link SST uses two DisplayPort connections. Thunderbolt transmits two DisplayPort connections over Thunderbolt by encapsulating the DisplayPort bytes into a Thunderbolt stream. DisplayPort bytes used for the vertical and horizontal blanking or any other stuffing symbols are not transmitted to save bandwidth. They are recreated when converting the Thunderbolt stream back to DisplayPort by another Thunderbolt controller. This is what happens inside the LG UltraFine 5K, which makes it the same as a Dell 5K. The two DisplayPort connections are completely independent and can therefore be used for any type and combination of monitors or chains of monitors (using MST).

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itsage
(@itsage)
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@joevt3 Thank you for the correction. It was my mistake. I had in mind multiple DisplayPort streams over TB3 and wrote MST. The correct type of connection is as you said “dual-link SST”. It also makes more sense for the sole DisplayPort on this AIC to be output rather input. 

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joevt
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I've received a couple GC-TITAN RIDGE. So far I only took some photos and tested DisplayPort x 2 to Thunderbolt conversion (no PCIe) and two DisplayPort to USB-C conversion (no USB). Those two functions worked while the GC-TITAN RIDGE was in the IT-GO "ADP-099-31" without any internal connections (none of 6 pin power x2, USB 2.0 header, and AIC header were connected).

The DisplayPort port is an output. It does not seem to support DP++. A passive DisplayPort to HDMI cable that worked with my Mac's NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 does not work with the GC-TITAN RIDGE, which means HDMI requires an active adapter.

I need to test other risers, try it in my GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 motherboard (no Thunderbolt add-in card header but may still kind of work in the PCIEX4 slot under certain conditions - like using Linux).

PCB GC TITAN RIDGE
PCB GC ALPINE RIDGE
GC x RIDGE Size Comparison
GC x RIDGE ports
GC x RIDGE ports in IT GO

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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
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I have an assignment to do, so I cannot write about this for long. But this could be big.
I received 2x GC-TITAN RIDGE AIC. I have so far tried with Gigabyte Z170X-DESIGNARE (which has AIC header and inbuilt DSL6540 with two ports).

In an hour or so, this thing has done what I have struggled to do with my various Alpine Ridge add-in cards for months.

A heap of firsts:
- First time I have ever seen OsNativePciEnumeration=True in WMI Explorer in Windows
- First time I have gotten working devices off three Thunderbolt 3 controllers on the same system simultaneously
- First time I have gotten three Thunderbolt 3 controllers to be properly detected, period
- First time I have gotten a working Thunderbolt 3 connection from CPU lanes
- First time I have managed to get Thunderbolt 3 devices approved when attached after boot in an unsupported PCIe slot (although it was slightly messy and messed up the lspci -vt a little)
- First time I have gotten a Thunderbolt 3 AIC to be detected with Thunderbolt 3 support disabled in the BIOS (it killed off the DSL6540 in the motherboard, but the 2x JHL7540 stayed detectable and working)

The last point is by far the most important. It means it almost certainly work in an AMD system, even without the header (although early indications are that it might need a Thunderbolt device attached at boot to have bus numbers reserved properly, and hot plugging will give varying results, perhaps even nasal demons).

I might finally be able to ditch Intel CPUs. Now, if somebody with a Threadripper system can get some GC-TITAN RIDGE and tell us if they work with the VROC-style PCIe bifurcation, that would be amazing! As in, get M.2->U.2 adapters then U.2 -> PCIe slot adapters and attach the GC-TITAN RIDGE to M.2 slots of VROC card, in the one CPU PCIe slot. Or in short terms, do they work with passive PCIe bifurcation?

The strange thing is that the officially supported motherboards are not even the ones that enthusiasts are interested in. H370/B360. In the officially supported PCIe slot of this motherboard (Z170), the GC-TITAN RIDGE did have a lot of trouble enumerating hot-added devices after boot. I have the Asrock Z270M-Extreme4 to test with, but only the one CPU and a lot of study to be doing. But at some point, I will move the CPU over and see what behaviour changes with another vendor.

Linux actually had a better time with Thunderbolt support disabled in the BIOS. The OSC error message (possibly does not like my motherboard firmware, or the firmware does not like it) from dmesg was replaced by a message indicating native PCI enumeration had been granted by the platform. It seemed to try to hot-add a fourth Thunderbolt device (first three were at boot time) but ran out of bus numbers. If you have the skills to modify a Linux kernel to reserve bus numbers on PCI slots given in /proc/cmdline at boot, then it might just work perfectly on any motherboard. It is too early to be sure, though. It is extremely promising - at the very least, it opens some interesting possibilities.

At some point I will want to do a full write-up and perhaps some YouTube videos on this, but for now, I will leave you with this to mull over.

Oh, by the way, the GC-TITAN RIDGE came with NVM23 which is pretty sad, given my Dell 9370 had NVM23 from the factory, and has since had updates for NVM28 and NVM33 (JHL6540). The external GPUs supported flag is set to "yes". USB support seems to work perfectly, without a hitch, with hot-plugging. Thunderbolt Networking appears to work perfectly, with hot-plugging. Power delivery works. I have not tested DisplayPort and alternate modes, but I suspect they will work. A quirk with Windows is that it shows SL1 security even when SL2 was set in the BIOS.

Please keep reporting new Titan Ridge devices and if you are getting on of these cards, please consider doing some experiments and publishing your results. Cheers!

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42186182 300176234109469 4414425136959062016 n

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itsage
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@joevt3 @karatekid430 Thank you for sharing the photos and reports. Your first impressions seem very positive that Titan Ridge AIC will enable TB3 capability on a lot more systems. This is a big deal. I have one on the way and will test with a Threadripper build.

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karatekid430
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It appears hot-plugging works on one big condition: that at boot, on each port, you have at least enough devices (daisy chain length) that you will want. On that port, and that port only, you will be able to hot-plug devices up to and including that original daisy chain length. If you attach six Thunderbolt devices to each and every port at boot (with four ports, 24 devices), then you will have full functionality (at least afaict) because it should reserve the full number of busses. If you can modify the operating system to somehow use non-contiguous bus numbers (somebody more knowledgeable about PCI, is this actually possible with the way the hardware works?) or to reserve the full number at boot regardless, then it will work on any system (again, only at least as far as I can tell).

Here is a juicy picture from before I disabled Thunderbolt support in BIOS earlier on.... The only system I am aware of with six ports previously is the trashcan and those were only Thunderbolt 2. There is also the "about" section from the Thunderbolt software.

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Last thing to note: it would appear that sometimes Linux can force enumeration (on the condition of available bus numbers) if it does not happen upon approval (such as if the card does not have the GPIO header attached). "echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan". This never seemed to help before, with Alpine Ridge controllers. Oh, another one worth mentioning is that I swapped out X550-T2 with the GC-TITAN RIDGE in the PCH slot, and I cannot get them both detected in CPU slots. Perhaps in the PCH slot, I can get away without having header attached, but not in the CPU slots. The AIC in the top CPU slot has the header attached, which likely forces power during early boot. I have found in the past that connecting two AICs to same header (either Gigabyte y-cable or using a motherboard with both the new and old style headers, which are wired directly together, only meant to use one at once as per the manual) can work to get them awake for detection, but can cause confusion later on, ending up with one's PCI devices in the other's tree (or them both mushed together).

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itsage
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That’s remarkable. I have been scratching my head trying to get the GC-ALPINE-RIDGE AIC working together with the single on-board TB3 on my X99 Designare. Like you said, the AIC has a tendency of disabling the on-board controller.

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karatekid430
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Posted by: itsage

That's remarkable. I have been scratching my head trying to get the GC-ALPINE-RIDGE AIC working together with the single on-board TB3 on my X99 Designare. Like you said, the AIC has a tendency of disabling the on-board controller.

Thanks. But no, the AIC would have been undetectable, full stop. The only way I could get Alpine Ridge detected on any unsupported slot, regardless of whether the system was Thunderbolt ready or not, was to get it running in supported system in a PCIe riser, disconnect the PCI from that computer, keeping the power connected, and hot-plugging into unsupported system, and doing PCI rescan. But it quickly caused the Thunderbolt driver to become confused, and only certain vendors of AIC were vulnerable (cannot remember now if it was Asrock or Gigabyte, but I think it was Asrock).

Edit: to elaborate, very few motherboards have support for onboard Thunderbolt and AIC. I think both are Gigabyte. Mine has two onboard, and the other has one onboard. I was not aware of mine for ages, and bought it second hand off Ebay when I found out. Possibly because it started off with USB 3.1, later upgraded to Thunderbolt 3 with a firmware update.

What motherboard did you have? Did it actually have the header? Anyways, some time I will start testing on other systems. I do not own an AMD yet - despite me wanting to so badly. The only reason I broke my vow never to have an Intel CPU again was because of Thunderbolt.

OMG, how did I forget to mention? Although OsNativePciEnumeration works, it does not use RTD3, at least on this Z170X-DESIGNARE (F23g BIOS). There are hidden IFR options that can be tweaked with EFI shell for that exactly, but a) I have little time during semester and b) given the remarkable ability of GC-TITAN RIDGE to (almost) function independently of BIOS, I doubt it will even matter. And although it reports it is not RTD3 capable, it does not appear from the PCI tree when no devices are detected, which is an indicator that it might actually be using it (or partial power savings).

@joevt3 any idea why it has USB 2.0 header? I am still stumped. My best guess is something to do with RTD3 and detecting power. Especially as it does not show up as a USB device in Linux or Windows....

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itsage
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@karatekid430 I have the Gigabyte GA-X99 Designare EX and it has a header. When it first came out the port behaved as USB-C only. Once Gigabyte got Thunderbolt 3 certification, they released the firmware updated to make it Thunderbolt 3. What’s nice about this board is that the on-board Alpine Ridge controller attaches directly to the CPU. When I attempted to add the GC-ALPINE-RIDGE AIC, the system could only see the AIC and no on-board TB3.

Not sure how it’ll go with my 1950x build. I used a mATX board to fit the OMEN X case. Therefore the number of slots is limited to 3. You brought up an intriguing idea of using adapters for U.2 port. I have already used the 3x M.2 + NVMe adaper for a four way 960 EVO RAID0 setup. There are more PCIe lanes available yet which is unbelivable on this platform and price range. Here’s a quick photo. I’ve since upgraded to 4x 8GB RAM modules to enable quad channel (write speed reaches 100 GB/s). The CPU cooler is my only last component to sort out. All existing coolers has their weakness. This may have to go custom loop eventually.

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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
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cmd2
cmd

Back to one on the PCH, that works better. I still cannot get both running on the CPU slots. Might have something to do with how they share lanes if both populated. Plus the X550-T2 might have been keeping the lanes awake when the GC-TITAN RIDGE was not. Anyway, this is with Thunderbolt support disabled in BIOS, which is why I have hope that this will at least bring broken Thunderbolt functionality to AMD in the mean time. Since everything works perfectly except PCIe, it might just be worth having to reboot to attach devices.

@itsage if it does not work in your Threadripper then you might need to find a way to trick them into thinking they have TBT header. The force power is just a GPIO set high, afaik - not some fancy encoding. So attaching the correct pins to 3.3V (or maybe 5V, measure the voltage on the GPIOs in a real setup) might be enough.

Anybody into trashcans, there is a Reddit forum asking if anybody got this working with Hackintosh. Perhaps somebody could lend them a hand?  https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/comments/9g64mw/gigabyte_gctitan_ridge/

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itsage
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@karatekid430 The Mac Pro trashcan does not have any PCIe slots so I’m not sure how one would go about testing this AIC. Did you mean the Mac Pro tower? Those have PCIe 2.0 slots. I have a couple and will test when the GC-TITAN-RIDGE arrives.

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wimpzilla
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Here a quick recap of the PD of the card.
TLDR the Titan Ridge add in card pack a very nice VRM power delivery, nothing to do with the Alpine Ridge.
It seems that an additional USB PD controller have been implemented in the Titan ridge card, with I2C capabilities.
So i can expect devices being powered respecting the PD 3.0 specs, tho it's quite a big improvement from the previous card TBT.
Again not sure why, but the PD delivery quality have been greatly improved.
Dunno if other components are present on the other side of the card.

@joevt
Can you please if you can, read me the part number of the chip marked with question marks, thanks.

5845 PCB GC ALPINE RIDGE
5844 PCB GC TITAN RIDGE

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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karatekid430
(@karatekid430)
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Posted by: itsage

@karatekid430 The Mac Pro trashcan does not have any PCIe slots so I'm not sure how one would go about testing this AIC. Did you mean the Mac Pro tower? Those have PCIe 2.0 slots. I have a couple and will test when the GC-TITAN-RIDGE arrives.

Unrelated. I did not mean using the card with the Mac Pro. I am just saying that somebody who actually gives a rats about Apple might know enough to help. Whereas if you put me near a Mac, smoke starts coming out of my ears.

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