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List of Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Devices
 

List of Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Devices  

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karatekid430
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Posted by: wimpzilla

Then you should read carefully the previous page about.
@karatekid430 and @joevt get it working, through bios and TB header mod.
If i remember well it was on a Z270 motherboard with the Titan Ridge add in board.
From what i understood it works better if the motherboard don't have bios option for the old TB header Alpine Ridge.

 

Not true - setting Thunderbolt to "Disabled" or "Fully Disabled" has the same effect as a motherboard without the option at all.

This was never going to be pretty, but the point is that it works at all. It was practically impossible to get Alpine Ridge working in the slightest with an unsupported motherboard. The only one who succeeded with Alpine Ridge is Wendel of Level1Techs on Threadripper. And he is too scared to tell us how he did it - even though he could do that without distributing any copyright material or intellectual property.

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karatekid430
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Posted by: joevt
Posted by: wimpzilla

Nice finding, interesting device.
Also note: Features:

  • Plug-and-play Thunderbolt™ 3 to dual DisplayPort adapter works with both Mac and Windows 
  • Two video streams up to x 8 lanes at DP 1.4 
  • High Definition Copy Protocol HDCP 2.2 
  • Adaptive Sync. support
  • Full High Dynamic Range support (HBR3 8.1Gbps, HBR2 5.4Gbps, HBR 2.7bps)

Seems to support now the adaptive sync for AMD gpu's, quite nice to have on an eGPU with a freesync monitor.

Aren't all these features (Adaptive Sync) just part of the DisplayPort spec? Or does Titan Ridge have special firmware that Alpine Ridge did not to be able to transmit DisplayPort signals that use these features over Thunderbolt? The latter might be true, since Thunderbolt does modify the DisplayPort stream to reduce bandwidth while transmitting over Thunderbolt. The receiving Thunderbolt controller recreates the removed parts of the DisplayPort stream. The latter might be false if the new DisplayPort features are unaffected by the original stream modification method.

They are part of the standard. If Nvidia does not use it, then they deliberately disabled it. Even the Samsung Galaxy S8 and later support it - with a USB-C to DisplayPort 1.2 adapter to the U32E850R monitor, the monitor reported the refresh rate as "FreeSync".

They will just be putting those as features for people who do not understand the standards, possibly to reduce the number of enquiries about it.

The same is for USB-C accessories advertised with mentions of Thunderbolt 3 in the title. Or as "Thunderbolt 3 compatible". It is a completely useless statement, as Thunderbolt 3 is a superset of USB-C (with the rare exception of USB 3.2 and VirtualLink). It is just there for the average and downright stupid-minded people who know next to nothing about technology.

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wimpzilla
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@karatekid430

My bad and good to hear, thanks you for the precision.

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ed_co
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@itsage @karatekid430
Super interesting and exciting!!
Is this finally working as CPU or PCH? It is having the whole bandwidth?
Tried to follow all you wrote here, but really difficult, seriously...
So, just for my understanding, this titan ridge card works on ANY motherboard?? No need for the typical TB3 header connector in the motherboard to the card?? (What is the meaning of the header, then??).
I was thinking to try it out with an Asrock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard. It just have a 16x port to attach the card in.
It could be a safe bet? I do have a hackintosh/NAS...

Thanks.

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wimpzilla
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augustopaulo
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Hi, 
Just to confirm that it is a Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 on Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Xtreme, since the chip is a JHL7540!!

See the JHL7540 nice picture from this post:  https://news.xfastest.com/review/review-03/55413/gigabyte-z390-aorus-xtreme/
(Use google translate)

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wimpzilla
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Thanks you for the link.

Also this is what i call a real premium board, most of the IC used to build up the board are premium.
Dunno about the features and if everything is working fine like bios, software side.
But hardware wise this is really impressive, sure the price too.

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
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Rekka3000
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So just to confirm, are there any intel itx motherboards (Z390 ideally) that are confirmed to work with the TitanRidge add on cards?

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Rekka3000
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Ended up buying the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard. Looking at the bios page in the manual, it has a whole host of thunderbolt options, as well as an option for a Titan Ridge OSUP workaround. Does that suggest it has Titan Ridge or works with a Titan Ridge AIC?

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joevt
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Posted by: Rekka3000

Ended up buying the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard. Looking at the bios page in the manual, it has a whole host of thunderbolt options, as well as an option for a Titan Ridge OSUP workaround. Does that suggest it has Titan Ridge or works with a Titan Ridge AIC?

No. To be 100% sure it has Titan Ridge, check the PCI device id in Device Manager. It seems the built-in Thunderbolt port can't support 5K60Hz because the Thunderbolt controller only gets one DisplayPort 1.2 input from the CPU.

To be 100% sure the motherboard works with Titan Ridge AIC, get a Titan Ridge AIC and try it out.

One interesting thing about the x16 slot is that you can get a riser to make it two x8 slots. You would need a larger case to support two slots, but then you might as well get a larger motherboard...

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Rekka3000
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Motherboard and parts arrive tomorrow, AIC arrives on Monday so I'll let you know. Either I'll use the AIC or I'll put the RTX 2080 in the case as I ordered an h200 and the GPU is definitely small enough to fit.

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augustopaulo
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Posted by: Rekka3000

Ended up buying the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard. Looking at the bios page in the manual, it has a whole host of thunderbolt options, as well as an option for a Titan Ridge OSUP workaround. Does that suggest it has Titan Ridge or works with a Titan Ridge AIC?

Unfortunately its not a Titan Ridge.

It's an Alpine Ridge - Check this post below on a very successful build by Brumbauer:

https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/336132-the-beast/

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Rekka3000
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Posted by: augustopaulo
Posted by: Rekka3000

Ended up buying the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard. Looking at the bios page in the manual, it has a whole host of thunderbolt options, as well as an option for a Titan Ridge OSUP workaround. Does that suggest it has Titan Ridge or works with a Titan Ridge AIC?

Unfortunately its not a Titan Ridge.

It's an Alpine Ridge - Check this post below on a very successful build by Brumbauer:

https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/336132-the-beast/

Yeah, I noticed that on the board this morning. Well, I will use that adaptor for now and hopefully use the Titan Ridge AIC when it comes next week. I hope performance isn't limited too much by it being on Alpine Ridge.

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itsage
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Gigabyte seems to have access to Thunderbolt components earlier and cheaper than everyone else.

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joevt
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Posted by: Rekka3000

Well, I will use that adaptor for now and hopefully use the Titan Ridge AIC when it comes next week. I hope performance isn't limited too much by it being on Alpine Ridge.

I think I lost track - what adaptor? Do you mean that you will use the built-in Alpine Ridge until the Titan Ridge arrives?

Where is it said that Alpine Ridge has limited performance compared to Titan Ridge?

Titan Ridge is easier to get working in unsupported motherboards like AMD or my old Mac Pro 2008. Titan Ridge can support DisplayPort 1.4, but only when connected to a DisplayPort 1.4 source. Other than that, I don't think there's much difference.

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Rekka3000
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Posted by: joevt
Posted by: Rekka3000

Well, I will use that adaptor for now and hopefully use the Titan Ridge AIC when it comes next week. I hope performance isn't limited too much by it being on Alpine Ridge.

I think I lost track - what adaptor? Do you mean that you will use the built-in Alpine Ridge until the Titan Ridge arrives?

Where is it said that Alpine Ridge has limited performance compared to Titan Ridge?

Titan Ridge is easier to get working in unsupported motherboards like AMD or my old Mac Pro 2008. Titan Ridge can support DisplayPort 1.4, but only when connected to a DisplayPort 1.4 source. Other than that, I don't think there's much difference.

To be honest, I have no idea why I said adaptor. Must have been too early in the morning to think. Yeah, I meant I would use the Alpine Ridge-based Thunderbolt until it comes. 
I was seeing a lot of places say that the Alpine Ridge chipset on most motherboards only runs with 2 lanes, something that I think I confirmed with the Aida64 Benchmark. Memory Read speed is only 1414MB/s. Should be getting quite a bit more than that if it was 4 lanes, correct? I think my MBP 2017 with the same enclosure / GPU (using 4 lanes) got way over 2000.

Edit: HWInfo64 also says its 2x. Being able to put the Titan-Ridge card in the 16 slot should allow it to get to 4x, so definitely a performance increase.

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joevt
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Posted by: Rekka3000

I was seeing a lot of places say that the Alpine Ridge chipset on most motherboards only runs with 2 lanes, something that I think I confirmed with the Aida64 Benchmark. Memory Read speed is only 1414MB/s. Should be getting quite a bit more than that if it was 4 lanes, correct? I think my MBP 2017 with the same enclosure / GPU (using 4 lanes) got way over 2000.

Edit: HWInfo64 also says its 2x. Being able to put the Titan-Ridge card in the 16 slot should allow it to get to 4x, so definitely a performance increase.

HWInfo64 says its 2x for what motherboard?

I think 2x is something that some manufacturers would do to some laptops. Usually, it's 4x on desktops. Nothing is stopping them from using 2x with Titan Ridge as well. Thunderbolt Add-in cards are all 4x.

I think Thunderbolt 3 using 2x is still faster than Thunderbolt 2 using 4x.

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Rekka3000
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Motherboard is the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard. 

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joevt
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Posted by: Rekka3000

Motherboard is the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard. 

Tom's Hardware review of that motherboard also confirms it is x2. Sad.

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Rekka3000
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Let's hope the Titan-Ridge AIC works 😀 otherwise i'll probably put the 2080 inside the case.

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itsage
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It’s unfortunate Thunderbolt 3 connectivity is second thought on many systems/motherboards.

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Rekka3000
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I can confirm the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard does NOT work with the Titanridge AIC. (Or at least out of the box)

Put it in, turned off (and tried it turned on) thunderbolt 3 support in the bios. Windows detects Titanridge AIC and it detected the Sonnet Breakaway eGFX 650. Checked the about section and has all ports registered and lists as egpu are supported.  However, it didn't see the RTX 2080 I had plugged in. 

Checked device manager and there was a "PCI Express Upstream Switch Port" device that had an error 31. The device seems to be the Sonnet eGFX 650 that was plugged in as HW ID is that of the Alpine Ridge controller. Motherboard thunderbolt 3 was definitely disabled and HWInfo confirms it was disabled. Uninstalled drivers and reinstalled about 10x. No luck.

I imagine it's to do with the TB3 header and needing to connect the pins together to trick it to wake up, but I tried splicing the provided TB3 header cable (plugged in 1 end into the header on the card, removed the necessary cable from the other sides jack and connected the cable, but that didn't work. I'll try it with a proper wire to see if my splice/join had errors, but does anyone have any suggestions?

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itsage
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@rekka3000 Thank you for the update on this motherboard. Which version of Intel Thunderbolt Software are you running?

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Rekka3000
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Posted by: itsage

@rekka3000 Thank you for the update on this motherboard. Which version of Intel Thunderbolt Software are you running?

Running 17.4.77.400.

Motherboard TB3 (Alpine Ridge) is running NVM Firmware 14.00
Gigabyte TitanRidge AIC was running NVM Firmware 23.00

I saw mention of the fact there are newer firmwares out there for these controllers, if the manufacturer doesn't provide newer firmwares, what's the easiest way to upgrade? Does anybody have any advice on getting the AIC working? Does my error seem likely to be fixed by the jumper pins being connected like Karatekid did?

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joevt
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Posted by: Rekka3000

I can confirm the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard does NOT work with the Titanridge AIC. (Or at least out of the box)

Put it in, turned off (and tried it turned on) thunderbolt 3 support in the bios. Windows detects Titanridge AIC and it detected the Sonnet Breakaway eGFX 650. Checked the about section and has all ports registered and lists as egpu are supported.  However, it didn't see the RTX 2080 I had plugged in. 

Checked device manager and there was a "PCI Express Upstream Switch Port" device that had an error 31. The device seems to be the Sonnet eGFX 650 that was plugged in as HW ID is that of the Alpine Ridge controller. Motherboard thunderbolt 3 was definitely disabled and HWInfo confirms it was disabled. Uninstalled drivers and reinstalled about 10x. No luck.

I imagine it's to do with the TB3 header and needing to connect the pins together to trick it to wake up, but I tried splicing the provided TB3 header cable (plugged in 1 end into the header on the card, removed the necessary cable from the other sides jack and connected the cable, but that didn't work. I'll try it with a proper wire to see if my splice/join had errors, but does anyone have any suggestions?

Did you warm boot your computer with the Thunderbolt 3 devices connected? Devices are not usable after the first boot. First, Thunderbolt drivers need to see the Thunderbolt device, and you need to authorize the Thunderbolt device. Then warm boot the computer so the firmware can allocate PCI resources.

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Rekka3000
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I did. 

I booted the system, let it detect the Sonnet eGFX box. Authorised it. Rebooted. No change.

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Rekka3000
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Posted by: joevt
Posted by: Rekka3000

I can confirm the AsRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/AC Motherboard does NOT work with the Titanridge AIC. (Or at least out of the box)

Put it in, turned off (and tried it turned on) thunderbolt 3 support in the bios. Windows detects Titanridge AIC and it detected the Sonnet Breakaway eGFX 650. Checked the about section and has all ports registered and lists as egpu are supported.  However, it didn't see the RTX 2080 I had plugged in. 

Checked device manager and there was a "PCI Express Upstream Switch Port" device that had an error 31. The device seems to be the Sonnet eGFX 650 that was plugged in as HW ID is that of the Alpine Ridge controller. Motherboard thunderbolt 3 was definitely disabled and HWInfo confirms it was disabled. Uninstalled drivers and reinstalled about 10x. No luck.

I imagine it's to do with the TB3 header and needing to connect the pins together to trick it to wake up, but I tried splicing the provided TB3 header cable (plugged in 1 end into the header on the card, removed the necessary cable from the other sides jack and connected the cable, but that didn't work. I'll try it with a proper wire to see if my splice/join had errors, but does anyone have any suggestions?

Did you warm boot your computer with the Thunderbolt 3 devices connected? Devices are not usable after the first boot. First, Thunderbolt drivers need to see the Thunderbolt device, and you need to authorize the Thunderbolt device. Then warm boot the computer so the firmware can allocate PCI resources.

TLDR: Asrock z390 phantom gaming-itx/ac: Works with Titanridge AIC if you do the TB header mod and turn off on-board TB in the bios. If you're looking for a mini-itx build, I think this is a pretty good little motherboard.

Finally got it working! I bought some breadboard wires and jumped the pins Karatekid mentioned, then put it in the PC.

booted the system, waited for everything to resolve itself, gave it permission to connect and then rebooted the PC.

Now detecting the 2080 and I can confirm it’s working correctly.

Hot plugging seems to work too, I can disconnect / reconnect the GPU at will. Works fine. Connecting and disconnecting the GPU seems to mess with the WiFi though as it will disconnect from my access point whenever I mess with the GPU.

Not entirely sure if I’ll stick with thunderbolt or just stick the 2080 in the PC, as I had it in there for a while and it was really nice just having it in the case but it is nice to know this works too.

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Rekka3000
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Would be nice if there was a way I didn’t have to warm boot the pc to get it working.

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wimpzilla
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@Rekka3000

Thanks you for the update, happy to know you get it working.

As far it was discussed previously, i don't remember the other have found an easy solution for the warm boot issue.

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dgsga
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Hi
This is my first post on this forum. Thanks to this thread I have (almost) got my titan ridge card to work in macOS on my Asus z270i hackintosh. It works in Windows and in Mojave after a warm boot from Windows. Does anyone know if it is possible to change the thunderbolt security level from user to legacy (or none) on a board which as no thunderbolt options in the bios?

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wimpzilla
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You would need to check 1st if the bios does have the TB options you need, the latest if present would be hidden to the normal user UI.
Usually one would begin to learn how to modify and edit desktop motherboards bios, far easier than the laptop bios.
There are tools to unpack the UEFI bios, check the option tree, check if the TB options tree are present hidden.
If you found what you are looking for, you would need to edit the bios, repack it and flash it back to the motherboard.
The latest part is quite tricky since a bad edited bios would brick the motherboard.

Some motherboards have a dual bios or some kind of feature that allow you to recover in case of a bad bios.
So check before starting if you have a way to recover a bad edited bios flash, before looking about flashing a modded bios.
Pretty sure you would find some information about looking for modding Asus bios for unlocking overclocking options.

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
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dgsga
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Thanks for the quick reply, I've checked the IFR table and the bios doesn't have the options I need as there is no TB header or on-board TB controller. I think I might be stuck with this one....

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wimpzilla
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Understood.

Well you can check if another similar board have a TB header and check how the bios TB IFR tree look like.
I know one could copy/export a sub-branch of the option tree and include it into another bios.
So one could try to add the missing TB options, to force a known state at boot.

This is far more complicated and maybe not worth it if the setup already work but the hot plug.

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joevt
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Thunderbolt security level can be changed in Linux.
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/thunderbolt.html

The linux sysfs for Thunderbolt is not all there in the case of my Mac Pro 2008 with Titan Ridge. I haven't looked into why yet.

You can't copy the IFR unless you know the variables are the same between BIOSes.

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wimpzilla
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@joevt

You are right, i should have specified to look for the bioses coming from the same line-up of z270 with a TB header/options.
Usually manufacturers tend to reuse the same pcb and code layout for different mid/high end motherboards.
In this case you can try to add options into the bios coming from the same kind of motherboard line-up.

 

 

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dgsga
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@joevt
Thanks very much for the tip,  I can query the current security level in Ubuntu with the command:
cat /sys/thunderbolt/devices/domain0/security
But I’m unable to write to the same location using echo as root user (permission denied). Am I missing something here?

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