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Mantis Venus - USB ports unusable  

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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: goalque

From above saying, it had mislead PPL that 17xx MiB/s FW equal to the " poor  performance ". Stop misleading PPL, all Games H2D data were zipped, and it only need to used 15xx MiB/s maximum. Please provide a proof of 17xx MiB/s VS 22xx MiB/s and also show us the " Proof " of FPS /Game Performance dropped 31.2%. 

That's true, most new games are not bandwidth-intensive, but there are exceptions:

https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/a-call-for-measurements-isolating-the-thunderbolt-effect/paged/3/#post-10255

Have you tried games that use Metal API? It seems to be bandwidth-intensive.

Never Tried Games in Metal API. but Metal 2 changed a lot and keep improving. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
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Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: Mymantiz_John
Posted by: goalque

From above saying, it had mislead PPL that 17xx MiB/s FW equal to the " poor  performance ". Stop misleading PPL, all Games H2D data were zipped, and it only need to used 15xx MiB/s maximum. Please provide a proof of 17xx MiB/s VS 22xx MiB/s and also show us the " Proof " of FPS /Game Performance dropped 31.2%. 

That's true, most new games are not bandwidth-intensive, but there are exceptions:

https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/a-call-for-measurements-isolating-the-thunderbolt-effect/paged/3/#post-10255

Have you tried games that use Metal API? It seems to be bandwidth-intensive.

Never Tried Games in Metal API. but Metal 2 changed a lot and keep improving. 

we've tested Metal 2, I see no difference in Quadcore CPU. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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goalque
(@goalque)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
 

@Mymantiz_John:

Some time ago it was better than DX11 on Windows:

https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/metal-api-shines-rx-480-reaches-60fps-on-macos-10-12-4-fhd-ultra-high-settings/#post-7978

And MPixels/sec got improved in computing after Node H2D fix:

https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/metal-api-shines-rx-480-reaches-60fps-on-macos-10-12-4-fhd-ultra-high-settings/paged/2/#post-13962

I've not tested H2D impact on Metal gaming.

We programmers think that unused resource is a wasted resource. Why not to use all the available H2D data bandwidth for better performance? Maybe that is what Metal already does and DX11 doesn't. Compression algorithms can be CPU-intensive. Would be interesting to see a comparison table of DX11/DX12 (Windows) and Metal (macOS), under the same game title.

However, the real bottleneck in eGPU gaming is often the CPU, and TB3 overhead.

automate-eGPU EFIapple_set_os.efi

Mid 2015 15-inch MacBook Pro eGPU Master Thread

 
2018 13" MacBook Pro [8th,4C,U] + Radeon VII @ 32Gbps-TB3 (ASUS XG Station Pro) + Win10 1809 [build link]  


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OtaXou
(@otaxou)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

Just to add my little case to the whole thing. As others pointed out, I have an high DPI mouse and a gaming keyboard, both with RGB lighting, and essentially can't use my mouse plugged in to the Mantiz Venus. My keyboard has a little bit of ghosting too, although it is really rare : I'm an online editor, so I write A LOT, and I experience this maybe 2/3 times a day. Not that big of a deal.

Flashing the old firmware kindly provided by John didn't work out for me sadly. So now I "only" have my GPU, my Ethernet cable and my USB keyboard connected to the Venus, while my mouse stays connected to my Blade Stealth (2016). I didn't try lowering the power consumption of the wifi module though since I don't know how to. If someone could explain it to me by the way, I'd appreciate that Smile

If you want me to try things out, feel free to ask. I'll gladly do it. But as John said to me, it seems that it is related to EMI noises... Not much I can do about that if it really is the case. 

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: OtaXou

Just to add my little case to the whole thing. As others pointed out, I have an high DPI mouse and a gaming keyboard, both with RGB lighting, and essentially can't use my mouse plugged in to the Mantiz Venus. My keyboard has a little bit of ghosting too, although it is really rare : I'm an online editor, so I write A LOT, and I experience this maybe 2/3 times a day. Not that big of a deal.

Flashing the old firmware kindly provided by John didn't work out for me sadly. So now I "only" have my GPU, my Ethernet cable and my USB keyboard connected to the Venus, while my mouse stays connected to my Blade Stealth (2016). I didn't try lowering the power consumption of the wifi module though since I don't know how to. If someone could explain it to me by the way, I'd appreciate that Smile

If you want me to try things out, feel free to ask. I'll gladly do it. But as John said to me, it seems that it is related to EMI noises... Not much I can do about that if it really is the case. 

What power management options take precedence in Windows 10. If you go in power options, under WiFi, you can set maximum performance or low, medium, or high battery savings.

Metal Laptop usually spread lots of EMI noise to overlap with 2.4_2.5Ghz band. that's the root-cause.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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OtaXou
(@otaxou)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

Well I'm already at medium and it doesn't change a thing, so EMI it is I guess ^^

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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irev210
(@irev210)
Trusted Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: OtaXou

Well I'm already at medium and it doesn't change a thing, so EMI it is I guess ^^

Or it's the design of the egpu.  There is a reason why Razer came out with a v2 which fixed he USB issues and it involved a complete rework, not just adding EMI shield 

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 4 years ago
 

just cannot ask PPL to change high DPI mouse or ask users go back to their laptop provider to add the EMI shield. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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OtaXou
(@otaxou)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

Do we know if this problem is still present with the Blade Stealth i7-8550U ? I wonder if they modified something regarding EMI. 

To do: Create my signature with system and expected eGPU configuration information to give context to my posts. I have no builds.

.

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XCVG
 XCVG
(@xcvg)
Trusted Member
Joined: 4 years ago
 

So I've been having broadly similar issues that may or may not be related, I'm not sure. I've been having them intermittently in various forms since I got the enclosure, on both the new firmware and the old firmware with several slightly different setups.

I experience... I guess I'll call them microdropouts. The USB drops momentarily, just enough to cause my keyboard to reset and if I'm typing or drawing it'll stutter or get stuck. It's not enough to cause any lasting issues, and even USB audio keeps working with rarely noticable hiccups, but it is pretty irritating. Usually, but not always, this happens when I'm using Skype. I had thought this was an issue with either my webcam (Logitech C920) or the LAN adapter but it's happened a few times when the webcam wasn't active and LAN not heavily loaded.

I've also had the USB drop out completely a few times, always when transferring files to and from external hard drives. I think generally, if not always, I was transferring over the network using the LAN port on the Venus. In all cases, PCIe remains connected and video is not effected.

Updating firmware and drivers on the laptop and the Mantiz Venus firmware didn't seem to have any effect either way.

I have several hypotheses, some of which have been explored here and some of which have not.

USB Overcurrent

My first theory was that something was drawing too much power, especially hard drives causing the hard dropout. I've moved all my devices to powered USB hubs and it doesn't seemed to have helped, so I think we can safely rule this one out.

USB Hub Overheating

I'm a bit concerned about the positioning of the USB hub chip on the board inside the enclosure, up against the power supply. I figured the fan would cool it, but the power supply doesn't move a lot of air and USB hub load has no relation to power draw so it won't spin up to cool the IC. With that being said, this has only been an issue on a rare few products so I'd be surprised to see it here. Although not totally surprised, since my TB15 had some problems here.

RF Interference

I do have wireless adapters connected to the Venus, but not directly. There's Logitech Gaming receiver connected to my keyboard, and an Xbox 360 receiver on a hub. Both are about 12 inches away but my actual mouse is closer.

The XPS 15 had a BIOS-level fix a year and a half ago for Dell docks that reduces wi-fi power when Thunderbolt is connected. I don't use wi-fi when docked, so I haven't been connected to a network but I did leave the card on. I just tried explicitly disabling wi-fi, so I'll report back on how that goes.

I did once manage to take down the entire Thunderbolt link, GPU and all, by leaving my phone on the palm rest, so there's that.

USB Endpoint Exhaustion

This is something I haven't thought of until recently. Each root hub is limited to I think 127 or 128 endpoints. Each hub takes a few endpoints, and there are two in the Venus alone. I checked a few of my devices and found my webcam has 22 (or 11?) endpoints and my Xbox 360 receiver 16. As I understand it (and unfortunately reference materials are pretty scant), strange things happen when you approach the limit. I got a USB Resource Allocation error once with my webcam but I haven't been able to reproduce it.

I'm going to try to do some more experimentation on this when I have time, but I've been pretty busy lately so I've mostly been just dealing with it.

2015 15" Dell XPS 15 9550 (GTX960M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 @ 16Gbps-TB3 (Mantiz Venus) + Win10 [build link]  

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