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US$349 Mantiz Venus TB3 enclosure/dock
 

US$349 Mantiz Venus TB3 enclosure/dock  

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itsage
(@itsage)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

I’d like to provide additional information when pairing the Mantiz Venus to a 2016 15″ MacBook Pro. I get full H2D speed. This is the same firmware as everyone else has, 25.1. I noticed H2D speed on a different Thunderbolt x4 host before so this matter is more complicated than what we knew so far.

I disabled the x16 PCIe connection that powers the Radeon Pro 450 dGPU. This also eliminates error 12. With only the HD Graphics 530 iGPU, the GTX 980 Ti eGPU can accelerate the MBP 15″ internal display smoothly. I’m putting together an article about using VR gear with an eGPU. Oculus Rift with Touch controllers are working very well with the USB 3.0 ports on the Mantiz Venus.

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use

eGPU enclosure buying guide


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nando4
(@nando4)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: itsage

I’d like to provide additional information when pairing the Mantiz Venus to a 2016 15″ MacBook Pro. I get full H2D speed. This is the same firmware as everyone else has, 25.1. I noticed H2D speed on a different Thunderbolt x4 host before so this matter is more complicated than what we knew so far.

Request: CUDA-Z outputs from customer shipped units with Intel certified firmware

@other Venus Mantiz customers. I’d like to get some more customer sample data.

For those who purchased and received their units,  please post your CUDA-Z results. You guys have official Intel certified firmware.

We have one confirmed customer who has demonstrated the current Venus Mantiz firmware enables the TB3 controller’s native 10Gbps USB-C interface which hosts the underlying SATA/USB/LAN ports. That USB-C controller being allocated 31.2% of the TB3 bandwidth with the remaining 68.8% being available for the eGPU. More details here.

We can then isolate if the majority of customer shipped units are seeing bandwidth results consistent with this finding.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table


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kotlos
(@kotlos)
Trusted Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

Here is mine:

Screen Shot 2017 07 20 at 7.26.23 PM

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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zwubel
(@zwubel)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@nando4: T570 Thinkpad (which only has a PCIe 3.0 x2 connection):

cuda z t570

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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GforceNL
(@gforcenl)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

I've just tried Ethernet connection on my Mantiz and it does not seem to be working (high Sierra Beta) .

Should I do anything to get this up and running? 

USB and EGPU work fine, tried the cable on my PC and its working there. 

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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phungtuanhoang
(@phungtuanhoang)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

Mine is a RBS Skylake with a GTX 1060

Performance Information

-----------------------

Memory Copy

Host Pinned to Device: 1243.35 MiB/s

Host Pageable to Device: 1093.47 MiB/s

Device to Host Pinned: 1529.71 MiB/s

Device to Host Pageable: 1340.64 MiB/s

Device to Device: 70.5609 GiB/s

 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Lunchbox
(@lunchbox)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@GforceNL

The below link is what Mantiz sent me when I reached out for support on the same issue.  The driver seemed to do the job.

http://www.asix.com.tw/FrootAttach/driver/AX88179_178A_Macintosh_10.6_to_10.12_Driver_Installer_v2.9.0_20170426.zip

2017 3.1ghz 15" MBP, 16gb of Ram, and Radeon 560 - Mantiz Venus EGPU with Silverstone SX800-LTI 800W power supply and Noctua fan - EVGA SC 1080TI - LG 34UC87M-B


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Mike
 Mike
(@mike)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

@nando4

Late 2013 MBP, venus, GTX 1060

I tried both thunderbolt 2 ports and disconnected the sata SSD to see if it made any difference.  All tests had the same result:

sata unplugged   top port

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Brawl
(@brawl)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

The import charges for the UK is £85 :/

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: phungtuanhoang

Mine is a RBS Skylake with a GTX 1060

Performance Information

-----------------------

Memory Copy

Host Pinned to Device: 1243.35 MiB/s

Host Pageable to Device: 1093.47 MiB/s

Device to Host Pinned: 1529.71 MiB/s

Device to Host Pageable: 1340.64 MiB/s

Device to Device: 70.5609 GiB/s

 

Those H2D issue had been fixed, just wait for Intel's green light and it is already in the last procedure. You will get the FULL TB3 H2D 22xxMib/s. and we will upload a new FW on the website.

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Brawl

The import charges for the UK is £85 :/

Sorry to hear that., UK Amazon will be listed soon. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Mike

@nando4

Late 2013 MBP, venus, GTX 1060

I tried both thunderbolt 2 ports and disconnected the sata SSD to see if it made any difference.  All tests had the same result:

sata unplugged   top port

Dear all:

  Nothing related with the SSD or USB, and it is not an issue either. A new FW is going to be released soon and everybody will get it with 22xxMiB/s 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Lunchbox

@GforceNL

The below link is what Mantiz sent me when I reached out for support on the same issue.  The driver seemed to do the job.

http://www.asix.com.tw/FrootAttach/driver/AX88179_178A_Macintosh_10.6_to_10.12_Driver_Installer_v2.9.0_20170426.zip

Thanks a lot, we also post link on our blog:

https://mymantiz.com/blogs/news/mantiz-venus-ethernet-driver

Mantiz: ● ●


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phungtuanhoang
(@phungtuanhoang)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

What is the expected D2H bandwidth for TB3? Is it 22xx Mb/s as well? 
I am using internal screen so just wanna know if i can squeeze out a bit more performance 😀

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 

@phungtuanhoang, the D2H path is generally not affected by the half-H2D firmware issue.  Anway, this is the reference full TB3 eGPU CUDA-Z bandwidth that’s linked from the Interface Performance Reference Table link in my signature.

 

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table


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Camm
 Camm
(@camm)
New Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

I feel like I'm probably missing something on this, but with TB3 only able to supply 4xPCI-E lanes, but having 40Gbps of bandwidth, would the best approach to be to guarantee 31.52 Gbps to the video card, and the remaining 8.48 Gbps to USB\Eth\etc ?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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nando4
(@nando4)
Noble Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Camm

I feel like I’m probably missing something on this, but with TB3 only able to supply 4xPCI-E lanes, but having 40Gbps of bandwidth, would the best approach to be to guarantee 31.52 Gbps to the video card, and the remaining 8.48 Gbps to USB\Eth\etc ?

Please do some background reading on the current TB3 architecture and how extra enclosure ports are hosted

TB3 performance improvements

Enclosure ports can decrease TB3 eGPU bandwidth by up to 31.2%

 

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table


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slsmaster
(@slsmaster)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

I would also like to comment on the H2D "issue". I was using an Asus ROG XG-Station 2, which had full H2D performance when paired with an 2017 rMBP(560 Pro,2.9GHz i7). I switched to Mantiz Venus, because I was needing additional ports and a SATA connector. Also the PSU-Fan of the XG-Station was WAY too loud, constantly changing its rpm making it very annoying. Now with "only" 1550-1580 MBit/s (with Venus) the performance in all games that I have played is IDENTICAL to that of the Asus-Station. I am using an external display (UP2715k paired with a GTX 1080) and playing mostly with high resolutions (4k or 5k).

EDIT:

ASUS(2200 MBit/s H2D) :

[email protected],quality ultra, tessellation extreme, no aa: min fps 4.8, max fps 44.2

Venus(1580 MBit/s H2D):

[email protected],quality ultra, tessellation extreme, no aa: min fps 5.5, max fps 47.4

So the results are in the margin of error and as expected identical. There isn't going to be a lot of data send to the gpu at higher resolutions, cause rendering times extend the higher the resolution gets. At least @4k and above there is zero performance drop with 1550 Mbit/s H2D bandwidth. In fact when playing at 5k there isnt even a big gap (if any at all) compared to my previous desktop (4770k @4.3GHz), because the card is the first thing to struggle when stressed. 

EDIT 2:

One thing I forgot to mention: I got full H2D performance with the Asus under Windows with the Radeon 560 Pro being active! So it is not necessary to turn the dgpu off (at least with the 2017 model which seems to work better then the 2016). Also I was using the upper right port, which is supposed to have lesser bandwidth even with 15" rMBP (which I have read on this forum somewhere). I don't think this fact is true, the left and right side ports got identical performance in my case.  

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Another test

Host: 2017 MBP 15" Kabbylake

Device: Mantiz Venus 1060 6G but with CURRENT FIRMWARE

H2D Picture: 15xxMiB/s

 2017 07 24 下午8.34.23

Device Configuration ( Hook with USB 3.0 HDD + SATA HDD ) both Copy from the Host to Device 25G to USB 3.0 HDD + 25G to SATA SSD. 

 2017 07 24 下午8.36.29

Test in Game FPS Far Cry Primal

 2017 07 24 下午8.38.44

Min: 50FPS

AVG: 61FPS

Max:71FPS

My question: where's the 30% lost? 

NO IDENTICAL PERFORMANCE GAP. 

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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moffat
(@moffat)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

Excellent to see those tests, I think the performance hit may come if you are running a game at High FPS / low quality where the transfer speed would be more of a bottleneck. 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: moffat

Excellent to see those tests, I think the performance hit may come if you are running a game at High FPS / low quality where the transfer speed would be more of a bottleneck. 

HI

Thanks for comment, in the previous post, I had tested the Unigine Heaven Bench mark with the Basic ( High FPS, Low Quality ). The result is the same, no Identical difference. Following the Intel Guideline & Suggestion, any Device H2D is larger than 1200MiB/s for a GPU performance is no big difference. Because the modern CPU will not use that wild range bandwidth. I can post more pictures tmr.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 

2200Mib/s VS 1500Mib/s Benchmark in Far cry Primal

the result is the same. and it is 700Mib/s bandwidth difference  but cannot duplicate the same percentage FPS dropped.  

IMO + Intel's opinion, H2D bandwidth to keep it as higher than 1200Mib/s, that's really enough. I am not finding the excuse for the current firmware and we will also release the new FW after Intel approved. ( @any time ). current FW is not going to pull your performance down and also the new FW is not going to pull your performance high. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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lukicharms
(@lukicharms)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

How did D2D get the new intel update?  0.50 seconds

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: lukicharms

How did D2D get the new intel update?  0.50 seconds

Because the device is from us. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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XCVG
 XCVG
(@xcvg)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

How much power are the USB ports on the enclosure rated for? I just had an issue where I plugged in a USB hard drive, it tried to spin up, and then all USB devices dropped. Some of them came back, but others, including the network adapter, did not until after a reboot.

Late-2015 15" Dell XPS 9550 GTX960M + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + Win10


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: XCVG

How much power are the USB ports on the enclosure rated for? I just had an issue where I plugged in a USB hard drive, it tried to spin up, and then all USB devices dropped. Some of them came back, but others, including the network adapter, did not until after a reboot.

each is 4.5W ( 5V x0.9A ) . 

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: moffat

Excellent to see those tests, I think the performance hit may come if you are running a game at High FPS / low quality where the transfer speed would be more of a bottleneck. 

HI, Please check the bench mark by 

Heaven Benchmark 

API: DirectX11

Quality: Low

Resolution: 640x360

Current FW: H2D 15xx Mib/S

 2017 07 25 下午5.02.08

Result: 

 2017 07 25 下午5.03.59

Upcoming FW: H2D 22xx Mib/s

 2017 07 25 下午5.05.53

Conclusion: 

No difference in Low Quality & High FPS. 

Please enjoy those extra Ports and its convenience. ^_^

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Mymantiz_John
Posted by: XCVG

How much power are the USB ports on the enclosure rated for? I just had an issue where I plugged in a USB hard drive, it tried to spin up, and then all USB devices dropped. Some of them came back, but others, including the network adapter, did not until after a reboot.

each is 4.5W ( 5V x0.9A ) . 

 

what's your Laptop? & OS?

We can see whether we can duplicate this issue or not.

Mantiz: ● ●


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Jaye
 Jaye
(@jaye)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

Why everyone is testing h2d issue with heaven benchmark? Heaven doesn't use that bandwidth. Not even every game is using it in full power. My suggestion is to use a game from Ubisoft called "Assassin's Creed Black Flag". With everything on max (except physx) on areas like jungle (a lot of trees, bushes etc.) it seems like game really struggles due h2d. GTX1080 performs at 60fps on desktop whereas on egpu it gives 35-46 fps in those areas. 

2017 13" HP Spectre 13" x360 + [email protected] (AKiTiO Node) + Win10
2016 15" Asus UX501VW GTX960M + [email protected] (AKiTiO Node) + Win10


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XCVG
 XCVG
(@xcvg)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Mymantiz_John
Posted by: Mymantiz_John
Posted by: XCVG

How much power are the USB ports on the enclosure rated for? I just had an issue where I plugged in a USB hard drive, it tried to spin up, and then all USB devices dropped. Some of them came back, but others, including the network adapter, did not until after a reboot.

each is 4.5W ( 5V x0.9A ) . 

 

what's your Laptop? & OS?

We can see whether we can duplicate this issue or not.

Dell XPS 15 9550, Windows 10 1703.

I've also had some (rare) random disconnect issues, but I think I might have a faulty hub connected. I'll try swapping in another one once I can get one.

Late-2015 15" Dell XPS 9550 GTX960M + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + Win10


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rushvora
(@rushvora)
Trusted Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: Jaye

Why everyone is testing h2d issue with heaven benchmark? Heaven doesn't use that bandwidth. Not even every game is using it in full power. My suggestion is to use a game from Ubisoft called "Assassin's Creed Black Flag". With everything on max (except physx) on areas like jungle (a lot of trees, bushes etc.) it seems like game really struggles due h2d. GTX1080 performs at 60fps on desktop whereas on egpu it gives 35-46 fps in those areas. 

Black Flag is absolutely shit at being optimised to run on PC. John has already provided actual game benchmarks, apart from Heaven. 

Also, PC performance and eGPU performance isn't going to be identical. I struggled to get good performance out of Black Flag at 1080p (60fps constant) back then, more than a year after it released, and I had quite a decent PC for the time. (4790k, 970)

The fact that you need a 1080 for a game released in 2013 to have it running at 60fps says it all. I have a 1080ti + Mantiz Venus and I can play Hitman and Dishonored 2 at 4k 60fps with high settings.

late-2016 15" MacBook Pro RP455 + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + Win10 // external SSD


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Camm
 Camm
(@camm)
New Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 

I have a 1080ti + Mantiz Venus and I can play Hitman and Dishonored 2 at 4k 60fps with high settings.

However there are still issues at play overall, of which anything we can do to minimise would be welcome.

In testing with Venus & 1080 Ti, I'm pulling 3D Mark scores closer to a 1080. Still well and truly playable, but a drop of 30% performance is still a little painful.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Camm

I have a 1080ti + Mantiz Venus and I can play Hitman and Dishonored 2 at 4k 60fps with high settings.

However there are still issues at play overall, of which anything we can do to minimise would be welcome.

In testing with Venus & 1080 Ti, I'm pulling 3D Mark scores closer to a 1080. Still well and truly playable, but a drop of 30% performance is still a little painful.

30% performance compared with?

Mantiz: ● ●


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slsmaster
(@slsmaster)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: Camm

I have a 1080ti + Mantiz Venus and I can play Hitman and Dishonored 2 at 4k 60fps with high settings.

However there are still issues at play overall, of which anything we can do to minimise would be welcome.

In testing with Venus & 1080 Ti, I'm pulling 3D Mark scores closer to a 1080. Still well and truly playable, but a drop of 30% performance is still a little painful.

The fps/performance drop depends heavily on the resolution used. While running @1080p the drop is, of course, much higher than for instance at 4k or 5k. At 5k I noticed almost no performance loos when compared to normal desktop usage. So for high resolution gaming, where frame rates are lower, the gpu needs more time to render which means there is more time for new data to be send to the gpu resulting in lower performance drop. So saying there is a 30% performance drop might be true for high fps situations, where lots of data is being send to the gpu like playing a game/running a benchmark at 1080p with a high end 4k gpu (like a 1080ti/1080...). So far I am very happy with egpu when combined with a 5k screen, of course you won't be getting stable 60fps even when combined with a 1080ti but the performance is close to say a PS4 Pro but with MUCH MUCH better graphics/resolution.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Camm
 Camm
(@camm)
New Member
Joined: 2 years ago
 
Posted by: Mymantiz_John
Posted by: Camm

I have a 1080ti + Mantiz Venus and I can play Hitman and Dishonored 2 at 4k 60fps with high settings.

However there are still issues at play overall, of which anything we can do to minimise would be welcome.

In testing with Venus & 1080 Ti, I'm pulling 3D Mark scores closer to a 1080. Still well and truly playable, but a drop of 30% performance is still a little painful.

30% performance compared with?

Hi John,

This was comparing a 1080 Ti running on a 6700T in a normal desktop vs a 1080 Ti (which was driving the monitor) running on a Skull Canyon NUC with a 6700HQ CPU & a Mantiz Venus dock.

The test was 3DMark's Timespy benchmark, which runs at 2560x1440.

The desktop system scores roughly 9000, the thunderbolt egpu system scores about 7000.

Now we know from PCI-E scaling, that a 4x PCI-E 3.0 will take about a 7% performance drop compared to a full 16x lane, which leaves 23% or so roughly of improvements to try for. Of course with Thunderbolt encoding times, your probably not going to achieve all of that difference. 

I do somewhat wonder if an optical thunderbolt cable might improve performance. But I haven't seen any made for TB3 spec.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: Camm
Posted by: Mymantiz_John
Posted by: Camm

I have a 1080ti + Mantiz Venus and I can play Hitman and Dishonored 2 at 4k 60fps with high settings.

However there are still issues at play overall, of which anything we can do to minimise would be welcome.

In testing with Venus & 1080 Ti, I'm pulling 3D Mark scores closer to a 1080. Still well and truly playable, but a drop of 30% performance is still a little painful.

30% performance compared with?

Hi John,

This was comparing a 1080 Ti running on a 6700T in a normal desktop vs a 1080 Ti (which was driving the monitor) running on a Skull Canyon NUC with a 6700HQ CPU & a Mantiz Venus dock.

The test was 3DMark's Timespy benchmark, which runs at 2560x1440.

The desktop system scores roughly 9000, the thunderbolt egpu system scores about 7000.

Now we know from PCI-E scaling, that a 4x PCI-E 3.0 will take about a 7% performance drop compared to a full 16x lane, which leaves 23% or so roughly of improvements to try for. Of course with Thunderbolt encoding times, your probably not going to achieve all of that difference. 

I do somewhat wonder if an optical thunderbolt cable might improve performance. But I haven't seen any made for TB3 spec.

Thunderbolt 3 Theoretically provides the PCIex 4, but actual Data transmutation rate is only 22Gb.  I also found that more high end card between eGPU VS DT, it will lost more, around 30~33%. 1070 is around 2x%. something like that.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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