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US$349 Mantiz Venus TB3 enclosure/dock
 

US$349 Mantiz Venus TB3 enclosure/dock  

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nando4
(@nando4)
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Posted by: Dsntrgr8

 

If you were to put an hdd and a gpu in it, would the hdd bottleneck the gpu at all? For example, if I ran steam from the hdd inside the egpu, would that effect anything?

   

Running anything off a USB or SATA controller on the TB3 bus will add overhead to the TB3 PCIe link. All TB3 systems’ architecture (except 15″ MBP.. it’s TB3 controller is attached to the CPU) is:

CPU<- 32Gbps (DMI) ->PCH

PCH<-> TB3 (up to 22Gbps)
PCH<->USB 3.0 (up to 5Gbps)
PCH<->SATA 3 (up to 6Gbps)
PCH<->PCIe x4 3.0 SSD (up 32Gbps)

Using the USB3 or SATA controller on the TB3 link will consume some of the 22Gbps TB3 bandwidth. Small common 4kb drive read/writes won’t have much affect. Large less common sequential reads/writes off especially fast SSD will. 

A way to avoid impinging on the TB3 eGPU bandwidth is to use your system’s native USB3.0 or SATA port to host your SATA HDD.

Worth noting, if you add up the peak bandwidth of all the sample PCH above devices it adds up to 65Gbps. DMI is 32Gbps, so how can get all the data across to the CPU? Simple. Those devices are never under full concurrent load to need 65Gbps. If they were then your eGPU link will crawl. 

There is a potential bottleneck there. The single biggest bandwidth consumer is PCIe SSD sequential read/writes, since it, combined with full load TB3 will saturate the DMI link. Need to again avoid seq read/writes off it while the TB3 eGPU is active.

The better solution around that DMI bottlenecking is to get a 15″ MBP candidate TB3 system whose TB3 ports attach directly to the CPU. If can pay the premium $$ for it.

Some picture references and related discussion is here.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) (6th,4C,H) + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + macOS 10.13.6 & Win10


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
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Posted by: nando4

 As mentioned in my last post, 3dmark ( and now Heaven) are not heavy bandwidth apps. Internal vs external benchmarking is irrelevant. It's using the D2H bandwidth, which isn't affected.

Try some games that stress the H2D bandwidth. eg: Far Cry Primal that saw almost  a 15FPS drop (89->74) going from x4 3.0 (32Gbps) to x4 2.0 (16Gbps) here, which is equivalent to the half H2D problem we are seeing here.

Needless to say, the TI82-based Razer Core isn't affected but the TI83-based Mantiz Venus, AKiTiO Node and probably XG Station 2 are. Customers who are being sold a Mantiz TB3 enclosure are expecting TB3 throughput.

I can see Mantiz Venus purchase disputes or refunds down the track if this problem isn't fixed before enclosure delivery.

Here's the update of test result of the Mantiz Venus ( H2D 1100Mb ) VS Razer Core ( H2D 2200MB ) in Far Cry Primal.

GFX: NV1080

Host: Lenovo X1c

Res: 1920 x 1080, Video Quality High

Mantiz Venus:

6450CA

Razer Core:

RZ FWupdate High Benchmark

 

Resolution : 3820 x 2160 Video Quality: Ultra

Mantiz Venus:

Venus eGPUFW Ultra Benchmark

Razer Core:

razer Ultra 4K benchmark

 

From the result, I see no performance gap in those heavy PCI-e traffic game.

If anyone would like to test more scenarios, please let me know. I may say, I see no difference in " real world performance " of the gap from Cuda Z.

 

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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ddqp
 ddqp
(@ddqp)
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Posted by: Mymantiz_John

Here's the update of test result of the Mantiz Venus ( H2D 1100Mb ) VS Razer Core ( H2D 2200MB ) in Far Cry Primal.

GFX: NV1080

Host: Lenovo X1c

Res: 1920 x 1080, Video Quality High

From the result, I see no performance gap in those heavy PCI-e traffic game.

If anyone would like to test more scenarios, please let me know. I may say, I see no difference in " real world performance " of the gap from Cuda Z.

 

 

   

Good! Like your ways.

Question is why the Matlab result is different? 

or the 2 different values result no difference in real world use?

 

Late Macbook Pro 2016 13' touch bar + AKITIO node + GTX 1050TI 4G Windows


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
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Posted by: ddqp

Good! Like your ways.

Question is why the Matlab result is different? 

 

   

Really had no idea...but I can say two different values address the same result in :

1. 3D mark

2. Unigine Heaven & Valley

3. Far Cry Primal ( heavy Loading PCI-e Game )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will add more tests tomorrow:

a. Witcher III

b. COD Infinite

I have lots of hosts( Lenovo X1c, T470, HP Spectre, Razer Blade , Dell XPS, Asus, Acer )  & cards  ( 980, 1060, 70,80 , RX480 even RX580 ) can do the cross checks, if anyone had any new idea or utility, please guide me through to see what the " real world is " .

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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abinavkatari
(@abinavkatari)
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Hi,

Great product. I have a Dell XPS 15 9550 and planning to get an egpu . The Venus looks like a great option but I have been reading about the 16gbps issue. Before posting on the group buy thread i'd like to know if I'd have any issues with the Dell 9550 and what kind of a performance drop would there be ? Planning to use a 1080gfx card. 

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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
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Posted by: abinavkatari

 

Hi,

Great product. I have a Dell XPS 15 9550 and planning to get an egpu . The Venus looks like a great option but I have been reading about the 16gbps issue. Before posting on the group buy thread i'd like to know if I'd have any issues with the Dell 9550 and what kind of a performance drop would there be ? Planning to use a 1080gfx card. 

   

HI:

Mantiz Venus had been well tested with XPS 9350. 13" Skylake I5. 

we had done the compatibility test w/o any issue.

But tell you about the history which I also found in other brand discussion.

eGPU FW was not requested to be selected for PCI-e purpose or eGPU purpose. For that time being, without any connecting issue with Dell XPS.

then one day, Intel requested has to select one type of FW, since our product is mainly for the eGPU so certainly we choose eGPU FW, then we suddenly found that " exactly same HW, but eGPU FW was not recognize by XPS 13. ( I think XPS 15 is the same ) in Skylake Platform.

we report this issue, then we got a new FW still naming the eGPU but now XPS 13 works fine w/o any performance reduce compared with the other hosts.

Thank you.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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nando4
(@nando4)
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Posted by: Mymantiz_John

will add more tests tomorrow:

a. Witcher III

b. COD Infinite

I have lots of hosts( Lenovo X1c, T470, HP Spectre, Razer Blade , Dell XPS, Asus, Acer )  & cards  ( 980, 1060, 70,80 , RX480 even RX580 ) can do the cross checks, if anyone had any new idea or utility, please guide me through to see what the ” real world is ” .

 

   

John, until your TI83 Venus enclosure’s CUDA-Z H2D increases 1100->2200MiB/s it will be considered underperforming compared to the Razer Core.

The Razer Core consistently delivers CUDA-Z H2D of 2200MiB/s. As of now it’s the most compatible and highest performing TB3 enclosure on the market.

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) (6th,4C,H) + GTX 1080 Ti @ 32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + macOS 10.13.6 & Win10


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
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Posted by: nando4

 

Posted by: Mymantiz_John

will add more tests tomorrow:

a. Witcher III

b. COD Infinite

I have lots of hosts( Lenovo X1c, T470, HP Spectre, Razer Blade , Dell XPS, Asus, Acer )  & cards  ( 980, 1060, 70,80 , RX480 even RX580 ) can do the cross checks, if anyone had any new idea or utility, please guide me through to see what the " real world is " .

 

   

John, until your TI83 Venus enclosure's CUDA-Z H2D increases 1100->2200MiB/s it will be considered underperforming compared to the Razer Core.

The Razer Core consistently delivers CUDA-Z H2D of 2200MiB/s. As of now it's the most compatible and highest performing TB3 enclosure on the market.

   

HI:

Thanks for your opinion and I respect your comment. But  again, I didn't see any real effect by different CUDA H2D values. 

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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itsage
(@itsage)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

Keep in mind the TI82 controller has compatibility issue with macOS. In order to use an enclosure with TI82 controller such as the Razer Core, you  have to run a TB3 enabler script for macOS to detect the enclosure.

Also, the Razer Core was designed with only the Blade Stealth in mind and therefore has a 45W power delivery. This is not sufficient for most Thunderbolt 3 laptops.

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use | eGPU enclosure buying guide


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abinavkatari
(@abinavkatari)
New Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Thanks a lot. I'm guessing the Xps 15 9550 should have absolutely no problems then. 

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
Vendor
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Posted by: abinavkatari

 

Thanks a lot. I'm guessing the Xps 15 9550 should have absolutely no problems then. 

   

Correct!!

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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XCVG
 XCVG
(@xcvg)
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It would probably be a good idea to throw in a compute benchmark as well, preferably one that transfers significant data across the bus.

Late-2015 15" Dell XPS 9550 GTX960M + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + Win10


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peshay
(@peshay)
Active Member
Joined: 3 years ago
 

Does someone has an idea, if such a thing will fit in this enclosue?  https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GTX-980-Ti-SEA-HAWK.html

Especially I wonder because of the extra liquid cooling.

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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
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Posted by: peshay

 

Does someone has an idea, if such a thing will fit in this enclosue?  https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GTX-980-Ti-SEA-HAWK.html

Especially I wonder because of the extra liquid cooling.

   

there's one place you can screw the liquid cooling fan. ( swap the Mantiz system fan instead of your liquid one ) current Mantiz system fan is 8015 type.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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SilveR316
(@silver316)
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I may have missed this... but does anyone know what the final power delivery will be? Will it support the full 87w necessary for the 2016 15" MBP?

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itsage
(@itsage)
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Posted by: SilveR316

I may have missed this… but does anyone know what the final power delivery will be? Will it support the full 87w necessary for the 2016 15″ MBP?

It provides 60W.

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use | eGPU enclosure buying guide


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rushvora
(@rushvora)
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Joined: 3 years ago
 

Had a question, when using this eGPU enclosure with a 2016 15" MBP, can the GPU (980ti for example) drive the internal display of the MBP in Windows 10? I don't care about macOS, getting this primarily for gaming in Windows 10.

I do have an external monitor which I plan to use, but I was curious as to whether the internal display works as well with the Venus enclosure.

late-2016 15" MacBook Pro RP455 + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + Win10 // external SSD


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OkamiShadow
(@okamishadow)
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Quick question, does this eGPU box work with Thunderbolt 3 daisy chaining? For example were I to own a Thunderbolt 3 Dock would I be able to connect my laptop to the dock then use the docks Thunderbolt 3 out for this? 

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Mymantiz_John
(@mymantiz_john)
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Posted by: OkamiShadow

 

Quick question, does this eGPU box work with Thunderbolt 3 daisy chaining? For example were I to own a Thunderbolt 3 Dock would I be able to connect my laptop to the dock then use the docks Thunderbolt 3 out for this? 

   

if you already have one docking with TB3 daisy chain. you may connect to Mantiz Venus. it means Host -TB3 docking-Mantiz Venus. It can be worked. and this eGPU FW also makes eGPU to be the first priority while occupying the bandwidth. 

but if your host - Mantiz Venus, it wont connect to your exist TB3 docking due to Venus didn't have the downstream feature. 

Mantiz: ● ●


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OkamiShadow
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Nice, the other 2 eGPU's I've looked at specifically say that they cant be used that way. 

Thanks for the quick reply!

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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: OkamiShadow

 

Nice, the other 2 eGPU's I've looked at specifically say that they cant be used that way. 

Thanks for the quick reply!

   

Intel's recommendation is : eGPU should be the first device in Daisy chain flow to avoid the bandwidth issue. 2nd, during the Intel plug fest, we had found some hosts support the eGPU to be the 2nd device and some are not. it means, Host is the major issue to support the eGPU as 2nd device.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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OkamiShadow
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Posted by: Mymantiz_John

 

Intel's recommendation is : eGPU should be the first device in Daisy chain flow to avoid the bandwidth issue. 2nd, during the Intel plug fest, we had found some hosts support the eGPU to be the 2nd device and some are not. it means, Host is the major issue to support the eGPU as 2nd device.

 

   

Ah, interesting then I guess its more to do with others wanting to be very careful with what they say will work. I would like whichever eGPU I get to be the first device but I've yet to find one that had Thunderbolt3 out, I'm guessing because the GPU will end up using most if not all of the bandwidth when its used on the internal laptop LCD.

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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: OkamiShadow

Ah, interesting then I guess its more to do with others wanting to be very careful with what they say will work. I would like whichever eGPU I get to be the first device but I've yet to find one that had Thunderbolt3 out, I'm guessing because the GPU will end up using most if not all of the bandwidth when its used on the internal laptop LCD.

   

no matter when you are using the external or internal display, eGPU will occupied most of the " DATA bandwidth " but still remained 18 Gb/s for DP signal.

Mantiz: ● ●


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ikir
 ikir
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So with the newer firmware H2D numbers are better even if the impact are just in some cases? Just curiosity, Node seems to get doubled score  https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/alert-akitio-node-half-h2d-bandwidth-issue/paged/6/#post-7169


MacBook Pro 2018 Touch Bar i7 quad-core 2.7Ghz - 16GB RAM - 512GB PCIe SSD
my awesome Radeon VII eGPU
my Mantiz Venus extreme mod with Sapphire Nitro+ RX Vega 64


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kotlos
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@Mymantiz_John will your Mantiz enclosure come with the latest intel firmware that solves the H2D performance? I am asking cause I really don't want to install bootcamp on my Mac just to upgrade the firmware... Thanks!

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Yukikaze
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I wonder: Is it possible to get a non-DisplayPort capable FW? Essentially one that would drop the DP signal provisioning altogether. It would be useful for people who only use the PCIe bandwidth in their enclosures for the eGPU (and connect monitors to the eGPU itself only), or in enclosures which have no ability to chain any TB3 devices due to a lack of ports (like the Node). I'd suspect Intel won't be happy with releasing something like that into the wild, but it is worth a shot.

Want to output [email protected] out of an old system on the cheap? Read here.
Give your Node Pro a second Thunderbolt3 controller for reliable peripherals by re-using a TB3 dock (~50$).

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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: kotlos

 

@Mymantiz_John will your Mantiz enclosure come with the latest intel firmware that solves the H2D performance? I am asking cause I really don't want to install bootcamp on my Mac just to upgrade the firmware... Thanks!

   

yes. while we shipped, it will attached the latest FW from Intel. It is a must do thing requested from Intel too.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: ikir

 

So with the newer firmware H2D numbers are better even if the impact are just in some cases? Just curiosity, Node seems to get doubled score  https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/alert-akitio-node-half-h2d-bandwidth-issue/paged/6/#post-7169

   

We received the test FW from Intel too, and what we can see is only the numbers changed. so some result as Post 7169.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Corrupted
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Is the issue with the H>D half bandwidth resolved or will be resolved?

And also, has anyone had any issues with Asus laptops connecting them to an eGPU? (obviously ones that have TB3 connections)

Thanks!

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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: Corrupted

 

Is the issue with the H>D half bandwidth resolved or will be resolved?

And also, has anyone had any issues with Asus laptops connecting them to an eGPU? (obviously ones that have TB3 connections)

Thanks!

   

HI:

First, this is not an issue, but anyway, Intel had released the Beta FW to " fix " the H2D numbers. after Intel accomplished all the tests, we will update it.

2nd, we had tested Asus Laptop, there's no problem, it supports Mantiz Venus eGPU well.

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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Corrupted
(@corrupted)
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Posted by: Mymantiz_John

 HI:

First, this is not an issue, but anyway, Intel had released the Beta FW to " fix " the H2D numbers. after Intel accomplished all the tests, we will update it.

2nd, we had tested Asus Laptop, there's no problem, it supports Mantiz Venus eGPU well.

 

   

I'm sorry! as a Software Engineer, Anything that isnt acting as expected is called an "issue" in my job lol. I have been reading around the forums and things do look promising getting the full bandwidth of the TB3. I'm VERY excited for this *crossing fingers* thank you for the reply John

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acls86
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Would it be possible to put a 120mm radiator inside the venus? Is there enough space behind the graphics card for a 30mm or 45mm one with fan?

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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: acls86

 

Would it be possible to put a 120mm radiator inside the venus? Is there enough space behind the graphics card for a 30mm or 45mm one with fan?

   

120mm Radiator can be put into the current system fan location and behind the graphic card there are still enough space from the right site.

Mantiz: ● ●


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BlackJack84
(@blackjack84)
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Just spotted the black Mantiz Venus... looks awesome!
Will group buy members get the chance to pick this version before deliveries start?

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Mymantiz_John
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Posted by: BlackJack84

 

Just spotted the black Mantiz Venus... looks awesome!
Will group buy members get the chance to pick this version before deliveries start?

   

Thank you. Unfortunately the black color is a prototype, we made it for testing the RCA, Hardness, anitscratch, Rusty..etc. It is a certain distance & time to mass production. Space grey will be the next color option we did the test. I'll post it once it is ready.

 

 

Mantiz: ● ●


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stevns
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Hello All,

I'm part of the bulk purchase of the enclosure. But i've read several different information about the power wattage on the USB-C connector.

Can anyone confirm that its 87 watt, so a Macbook Pro 15 inch will be powered by it?

Cheers

 

Martin

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