[Unboxing & Teardown] Blackmagic eGPU Radeon Pro 580 Thunderbolt 3 Enclosure
 
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[Unboxing & Teardown] Blackmagic eGPU Radeon Pro 580 Thunderbolt 3 Enclosure  

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GuideOfGalaxy
(@guideofgalaxy)
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Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: joevt

Regarding DisplayPort 1.4 support (if the eGPU can output DisplayPort 1.4 and the macOS drivers allow it), if I have the following:

Mac -> eGPU -> Alpine Ridge device -> Titan Ridge device (such as the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2).

A DisplayPort 1.4 display connected to the DisplayPort of the Alpine Ridge device won't receive a DisplayPort 1.4 signal because Alpine Ridge only supports DisplayPort 1.2. I wonder if it will work at all - the OS should allow DisplayPort 1.2 signals to be sent to the DisplayPort 1.4 display.

However, a DisplayPort 1.4 signal should be able to move unmolested from the eGPU to a DisplayPort 1.4 display connected to the Titan Ridge device because the DisplayPort signal is encapsulated in a Thunderbolt signal and the Alpine Ridge should be able to pass it along the chain (if it honors the timing restrictions/requirements of the DisplayPort 1.4 Thunderbolt packets).

There will be issues connecting two 5K DisplayPort 1.4 displays on a single Thunderbolt 3 chain. macOS will probably enable only one of them even if you set the first to 4K. It's the same issues as trying to connect two 4K DisplayPort 1.2 displays to a single Thunderbolt 2 chain. Thunderbolt 2 can support two 2560 x 1440 displays, but macOS won't let you connect two 4K displays even if you set the first to 2560 x 1440 before connecting the second. Apple needs to add a display disabling feature and new features for bandwidth budgeting for individual display timings and resolutions and stream count budgeting for enabling and disabling individual displays. Those new features can also apply to MST display chaining if Apple ever chooses to support that. MST display chaining has similar bandwidth / stream count budgeting requirements as Thunderbolt display chaining, and MST works over Thunderbolt (if you're using Windows).

what about 1 5k display and 1 4k on the same thunderbolt chain?

2016 15" MacBook Pro (RP455) [6th,4C,H] + RX 5600 XT @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X) + macOS 10.15.3 & Win10 [build link]  

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joevt
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what about 1 5k display and 1 4k on the same thunderbolt chain?

The 5K display would have to be DisplayPort 1.4 because current DisplayPort 1.2 5K displays like the LG UltraFine 5K use both DisplayPort inputs of a Thunderbolt chip.

5K (22 Gbps) + 4K (16 Gbps) = 38 Gbps leaving only 2 Gbps left over for data. I don't think Thunderbolt will let that happen. Google Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf.

Well, if the eGPU is at the end of the chain, then data would not be required so if Thunderbolt were smart enough then maybe it could happen. This would exclude Thunderbolt and USB-C displays that would require data for their USB ports.

Maybe it could work if the displays were in different parts of the Thunderbolt 3 chain. Earlier, I proposed this test:
computer -> dock 1 -> dock 2 -> eGPU -> dock 3

Where dock 1 and dock 2 could connect two 4K displays powered by the computer's GPU, then displays after the eGPU would be powered by the eGPU's GPU so you could connect two more 4K displays, or a 5K display.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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joevt
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I've been thinking about some of the design choices/compromises (besides the choice of graphics card or the choice of not using a replaceable PCIe card). There are some missed opportunities.

1) Only three of the outputs of the Radeon are exposed: two DisplayPorts through a Thunderbolt port and a HDMI 2.0 port. Radeon PCIe cards usually have a third DisplayPort. In fact Radeon's can have 6 outputs (for example, the MacBook Pro uses 5).

2) Titan Ridge has a USB port which could be used with the extra DisplayPorts(s) of the Radeon to create USB-C port(s) supporting 4K USB-C displays like the LG UltraFine 4K display. The HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 seems to do something like this. It lets you connect two USB-C displays. You can't do that easily with this eGPU.

3) Thunderbolt 3 controllers have a DisplayPort output (called DP source) which could be used to expose one of the DisplayPorts connected to the Thunderbolt 3 controller's DisplayPort inputs (called DP sinks). Thunderbolt 3 devices use this for their DisplayPort output. This way, you can more easily connect two DisplayPort displays because all you need is a USB-C adapter for the Thunderbolt 3 port. Combine this with #2 by making it a USB-C port also (because you can easily convert USB-C to DisplayPort but you can't easily convert DisplayPort to USB-C) so you can connect two USB-C displays. Combine this with #1 to allow connecting three or five USB-C displays.

I suppose all of the above would make it even more expensive but after $700 what's a few more $?

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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joevt
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Another test to prove graphics are coming from the eGPU's GPU (maybe someone can do this test at least):

Thunderbolt 2 Mac -> eGPU -> two 4K displays from Thunderbolt.

Because Thunderbolt 2 can't support two 4K displays. If you don't have a Thunderbolt 2 Mac, then a Thunderbolt 3 cable rated at 20 Gbps will also work. Two Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapters can also constrict bandwidth to 20 Gbps.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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GuideOfGalaxy
(@guideofgalaxy)
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Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: joevt

what about 1 5k display and 1 4k on the same thunderbolt chain?

The 5K display would have to be DisplayPort 1.4 because current DisplayPort 1.2 5K displays like the LG UltraFine 5K use both DisplayPort inputs of a Thunderbolt chip.

5K (22 Gbps) + 4K (16 Gbps) = 38 Gbps leaving only 2 Gbps left over for data. I don't think Thunderbolt will let that happen. Google Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf.

Well, if the eGPU is at the end of the chain, then data would not be required so if Thunderbolt were smart enough then maybe it could happen. This would exclude Thunderbolt and USB-C displays that would require data for their USB ports.

Maybe it could work if the displays were in different parts of the Thunderbolt 3 chain. Earlier, I proposed this test:
computer -> dock 1 -> dock 2 -> eGPU -> dock 3

Where dock 1 and dock 2 could connect two 4K displays powered by the computer's GPU, then displays after the eGPU would be powered by the eGPU's GPU so you could connect two more 4K displays, or a 5K display.

 

I have tried to connect a 5k lg monitor and a 4k monitor via display port and it worked on a elgato thunderbolt dock on a single thunderbolt port but what it did was start disabling ports on the dock to conserve bandwidth, ended up disabling alot of ports just to run the 2 monitors. so this may work with this egpu if all you have is the monitors plugged in and nothing else on one side of the computer.

2016 15" MacBook Pro (RP455) [6th,4C,H] + RX 5600 XT @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X) + macOS 10.15.3 & Win10 [build link]  

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nando4
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Joined: 4 years ago
 

@itsage, for an Optimus-type arrangement, we could deduce if the eGPU's GPU is driving the TB3-port attached LCD by observing PCIe bandwidth using CL!ing:
https://egpu.io/forums/desktop-computing/clng-gpu-memory-bandwidth-and-compute-performance-macos-app/

1. play a 4k movie on the TB3 LCD and run CL!ing at the same time. Capture the CL!ing window.
2. Then drag the movie window started on the eGPU-attached LCD over to the MBP's internal LCD and run CL!ing.  Capture the CL!ing window.

If the eGPU's GPU is driving the LCD, then for (1) there would be a decreased H2D for the movie.
If the MBP's GPU is driving the LCD,  in an Optimus-like eGPU accelerated arrangement,  then for (1) there would decreased H2D for the movie as well as D2H bandwidth for the LCD loopback traffic. Then (1) & (2) results will be similar.
If the MBP's GPU is driving the LCD without eGPU acceleration, then we'd see no H2D or D2H bandwidth decreases for (1) & (2).

eGPU Setup 1.35    •    eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table

 
2015 15" Dell Precision 7510 (Q M1000M) [6th,4C,H] + GTX 1080 Ti @32Gbps-M2 (ADT-Link R43SG) + Win10 1803 [build link]  


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joevt
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Posted by: GuideOfGalaxy

I have tried to connect a 5k lg monitor and a 4k monitor via display port and it worked on a elgato thunderbolt dock on a single thunderbolt port but what it did was start disabling ports on the dock to conserve bandwidth, ended up disabling alot of ports just to run the 2 monitors. so this may work with this egpu if all you have is the monitors plugged in and nothing else on one side of the computer.

Please describe the Thunderbolt chain of devices in painfully explicit detail (or as much detail as my examples). Also, use SwitchResX to see the timings of the displays to make sure they are using full bandwidth. A 4K display should be ≈530 MHz and a 5K display should be > 900 MHz.

Also, what does Sytem Information.app say each display is connected to? They can't both be connected to the eGPU or the computer because Thunderbolt 3 controllers only have two DisplayPorts, and a 5K display takes two (you are refering to the LG UltraFine 5K? because you could be talking about a DisplayPort 1.4 5K monitor...) Take same screen shots. Also, take a screen shot of the USB 3.1 Bus in System Information.app to see the PCI Device ID of the Blackmagic eGPU.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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joevt
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Joined: 3 years ago
 
Posted by: nando4

If the eGPU's GPU is driving the LCD, then for (1) there would be a decreased H2D for the movie.

Because the computer is using H2D bandwidth sending the movie to the eGPU for playback.

Posted by: nando4

If the MBP's GPU is driving the LCD, in an Optimus-like eGPU accelerated arrangement, then for (1) there would decreased H2D for the movie as well as D2H bandwidth for the LCD loopback traffic. Then (1) & (2) results will be similar.

Decreased H2D because the computer is using H2D bandwidth sending the movie to the eGPU for playback.
Decreased D2H as the computer will be reading graphics from the eGPU to display on the LCD through the computer's GPU (same for 1 and 2)
Decreased H2D again because the computer's GPU is sending DisplayPort over Thunderbolt to the LCD even if #2 because the LCD is always needing video.

Posted by: nando4

If the MBP's GPU is driving the LCD without eGPU acceleration, then we'd see no H2D or D2H bandwidth decreases for (1) & (2).

Wouldn't there be decreased H2D because the computer's GPU is sending DisplayPort over Thunderbolt to the LCD? It would be lower than connecting the LCD to the computer's other Thunderbolt port.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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GuideOfGalaxy
(@guideofgalaxy)
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Joined: 4 years ago
 
Posted by: joevt
Posted by: GuideOfGalaxy

I have tried to connect a 5k lg monitor and a 4k monitor via display port and it worked on a elgato thunderbolt dock on a single thunderbolt port but what it did was start disabling ports on the dock to conserve bandwidth, ended up disabling alot of ports just to run the 2 monitors. so this may work with this egpu if all you have is the monitors plugged in and nothing else on one side of the computer.

Please describe the Thunderbolt chain of devices in painfully explicit detail (or as much detail as my examples). Also, use SwitchResX to see the timings of the displays to make sure they are using full bandwidth. A 4K display should be ≈530 MHz and a 5K display should be > 900 MHz.

Also, what does Sytem Information.app say each display is connected to? They can't both be connected to the eGPU or the computer because Thunderbolt 3 controllers only have two DisplayPorts, and a 5K display takes two (you are refering to the LG UltraFine 5K? because you could be talking about a DisplayPort 1.4 5K monitor...) Take same screen shots. Also, take a screen shot of the USB 3.1 Bus in System Information.app to see the PCI Device ID of the Blackmagic eGPU.

yep sure
Elgato thunderbolt 3 dock connected directly to Macbook pro 15 inch, nothing else pluged into any other thunderbolt port.
LG 5k pluged into 2nd thunderbolt 3 port on elgato dock,
4k monitor plug into display port on elgato dock.
and usb things like wireless keyboards and mouse and gigabit ethernet.
when I first connected it all both displays came on at full res 60hz
then I though w00 hoo it works
then I noticed ports were starting to stop working and then I realized that it doesn't like that as soon as I rebooted it droped the display port 4k monitor port and everything else was activated again.

then when I unplug it and plug i back in again it start to take on the two monitors again.
elgatos website says it can't run a 5k monitor with a 4k monitor but it can run a single 5k monitor or 2 4k monitors.

when the 5k monitor is active it says it will auto disable the display port.

I think I found a hack round it though to make it run 2 monitors but nothing else works besides it.

2016 15" MacBook Pro (RP455) [6th,4C,H] + RX 5600 XT @32Gbps-TB3 (Razer Core X) + macOS 10.15.3 & Win10 [build link]  

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joevt
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You need to check SwitchResX to make sure the 5K is not running at 4K. That is the only way you can connect a LG UltraFine 5K and a 4K at the same time to the same Thunderbolt chain. The 5K could run a 5K resolution but scaled down to 4K to fit through a single DisplayPort (it will look slightly blurry). The 5K could be a 2560x1440 HiDPI scaled to 4K. So you have to check the pixel clock in SwitchResX (since the LG doesn't have an onscreen menu to show the current resolution and refresh rate).

I think you have to connect the 4K first, then the 5K will be forced to use 4K when you plug it in second? If the 5K is running at 4K then I don't see why any ports would be disabled as the Elgato is supposed to be able to support two 4K displays? But maybe the 5K is reserving extra bandwidth even when it's running at 4K? That would be weird.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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