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AMD Navi 7nm for eGPU - Radeon RX 5700 & RX 5700 XT
 

AMD Navi 7nm for eGPU - Radeon RX 5700 & RX 5700 XT  

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itsage
(@itsage)
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With Radeon Navi set to launch in a few days, I thought we should start a discussion on eGPU use with RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. First of all, don’t buy them yet if you have a Mac. The latest 10.15 Beta 3 does not have eGPU support for these graphics cards. Kext editing to make them work may be a possibility. Seeing how Radeon VII eGPU support has been, I’d strongly recommend waiting for proper driver support. Windows may be a no-go on launch day similar to Radeon VII as well. The PCI ID 731F is no where to be found in driver list.

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Eightarmedpet
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Hold on, does that mean you have one or what that a screenshot from a VII!?!?!

What was the issue with the VII in windows on launch day?

I'm keen on getting the new gen, my main interest/focus is whether, drivers aside, AMD Bootcamp egpu set up will be any easier (as per Nvidia).

My Mantiz is arriving Tuesday, to be honest I'll prob but a Navi card anyway and just send back if it doesn't work in Windows at least (although with more room than my Core I could actually grab a Pulse Vega which is quieter and cooler than my reference...

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

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itsage
(@itsage)
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Radeon VII did not work in eGPU mode on both macOS and Windows. Screen captures were from RX 5700 eGPU on 10.15 Beta 3.

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Eightarmedpet
(@eightarmedpet)
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Wut wut wut, you have one?! 
I hope we are going to see some build attempts/guides come Monday? Does it output anything when attached to an external?

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

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itsage
(@itsage)
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Unfortunately I don’t have one. I heard from a contact.

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wimpzilla
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Navi architecture refer to an updated GCN architecture, called RDNA 🙄 , with a revamped compute unit design.

So i would simply expect that the driver used for GCN until now are not totally optimized for navi, that need a new set of drivers to really take profit of the new compute unit pipelines.
For sure the new instruction set aiming console game development seems quite powerful, if i believe M$crosoft and Sony advert for the next gen console.
Still i did not understood clearly if these adverted specs refer to the console alone or refer to the console + game cloud computing through the network.

So i would suppose this lead to two things as usual with AMD:
1/New drivers are needed to really take profit of the new gpu, for both desktop and eGPU use.
2/Devs need to want to use the new instruction set to really take profit of navi. 

Edit: @itsage
I also thought you already owned one for testing purposes, so the screenshot.
Why not ask AMD to send you one? 😎  
The forum put some quite effort to share eGPU builds with AMD cards, at the end!

 

This post was modified 2 months ago

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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itsage
(@itsage)
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@wimpzilla It’s a hobby for all of us so I don’t ask companies to send me products. If they offer to send samples I would gladly accept for testing and reviewing. Undoubtedly our community has helped many companies sell products. Our only goal is to inform people to the best of our knowledge and not be influenced by any companies.

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Eightarmedpet
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Interesting to hear of pre launch price drops as a reaction to Super cards, hope Sapphire come out with a version with their cooler design.

Also - I wonder if Apple will still use the RX 580 in the Mac Pro or quietly upgrade to the 5700, prob not as they just LOVE to cheap out on GPUs but it would be great if they did.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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wimpzilla
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@itsage

You are right, i agree with you.
But since you spent some time testing eGPU setups, gathering quite some knowledge in the field.
One would maybe still send you one for testing purpose, "free of charges".

Anyway, one can find here the whole AMD E3 slide show including the navi one: https://www.techpowerup.com/256660/amd-e3-2019-tech-day-all-slide-decks-ryzen-3000-zen-2-radeon-rx-5000-navi-etc
Seems AMD is already (lowing) lowering the prices at launch sunday 7/7/19 : https://www.techpowerup.com/257106/confirmed-amd-to-cut-rx-5700-series-prices-at-launch

 

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2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
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Ray
 Ray
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I was about to grab a Vega Nano off EBay. The price drop made me hesitate, but I still think I will. I prefer something more portable, if for nothing more than easy transport from the desk to the TV for some couch gaming. 

It’ll be August before we see optimized drivers and 3rd party cards. And Vega, which had a nano advertised on launch day, didn’t get it till over a year later. Sure, this could be different, but I have my doubts. Who knows how long until we see a Navi Nano.

@itsage @eightarmedpet You both helped me out on my search for a Vega Nano… what have you got to say about this?

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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itsage
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@ray Nano cards are rare finds and they hold value. I bought a white ASUS R9 Nano brand new off eBay a few months prior to buying the PowerColor Vega Nano. The price difference was only $40.

I have not heard anything about an ITX/Nano version for Navi family. Like you said it may take another year before one is available. On top of that driver support is not the best for newly launched GPUs in both macOS and Windows.

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Ray
 Ray
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@itsage Thanks for the confirmation! Though I must admit, I’m disappointed to hear this. Nvidia is doing fantastic with their ITX cards, and they’re readily available and competitively priced. It just seems like something AMD is missing out on.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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itsage
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In the US, Micro Center holds an AMD Ryzen and Navi launch event this morning. I’m standing in line at my local store. This is surreal because I don’t recall the last time a computer-related launch received this much hype.

1ACD054E 6138 4A7F B71F D81D740D09BC
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wimpzilla
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One can find the Techpowerup review here: 

5700XT: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt/
5700: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5700/

Will update this post when other reviews drop down.
Dunno what is the real retail price and the cards availability tho, did not checked.

Edit : Eurogamer 5700 review: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-amd-radeon-rx-5700-rx-5700-xt-review-head-to-head-with-nvidia-super
         Anandtech 5700 review: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review  
        Phoronix linux 5700 review: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=radeon-5700-linuxgl&num=1

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itsage
(@itsage)
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$349 for RX 5700, $399 for RX 5700 XT, and $449 for 50th Edition.

As informed in the OP, there’s no drivers for Navi as of 10.15 Beta 3 [19A501i].

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wimpzilla
(@wimpzilla)
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Just checked at online french stores, 400e for the 5700, 450e for the 5700xt, at the moment of writing this post.
I found one retailer tho going for 369e for the 5700 and 421e for the 5700xt.
It's a bit pricey considering what one really get at the end, when purchased at launch. 

Not impressed at all on overall by this launch, luckily Ryzen 3k save the day a bit .
Time will tell, as usual with AMD products.

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itsage
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Radeon drivers 19.7.1 released today have eGPU support in Windows. The RX 5700 performance so far is between RX Vega 56 & 64. It is running cooler and quieter than Vega cards (reference blower style cooler).

Here are some early testing numbers in Boot Camp Windows 10 1903 on a 2016 15″ MacBook Pro. It’s done through internal display mode.

The Razer Core is able to both charge my 15″ MacBook Pro and power the RX 5700 just fine. It’s been running for two hours and no shut-off issues.

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wimpzilla
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@ itsage

The power consumption dropped drastically with the 7nm process, compared to 14nm vega cards.
The power consumption is now more or less equal to the nvidia 12nm turing cards.

However with a decent cooling system the card would run even cooler and be almost inaudible.

Edit: Dunno but the reviews seems to complain a lot about the immortal AMD blower design, especially on heavy sustained loads.
It seems also the drivers are pretty nasty, i would say as usual, unfortunately.
In few words, it's a bit a mess here, there and there at launch.

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2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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craftsman
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Anandtech highlights that compute performance is currently slow or broken because of the new RDNA architecture. Drivers aren't prime time yet.

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MacBook Pro 2018, Razer Core Chroma, Power Color Radeon VII


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gyang776
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Same here. I got the RX5700 XT today and the Mac OS 10.14.5 is not recognizing the card. 

Also as a side note, how do I insert images into the reply? I would like to show my setup, as well as Geekbench score. 

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Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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teltersat
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I would love to see the 5700 XT performance once drivers stabilize. I am currently running an RX 580, looking at its performance and stability overall on Windows makes me think that it would be a good upgrade. But glad to know that I shouldn't jump straight away - I'll probably wait for an improved cooler design from OEM partners.

I do see stuttering in complex geometry levels in Overwatch (drops to 50 fps), Quake Champions is more GPU demanding and has some render lag (drops below 60fps), DX9 games like A Hat In Time can suffer slowdowns (maybe they're more CPU bound). However I'm running a dual screen setup, and that may be a bit too much for the RX 580 to work through the TB3 link. I have seen comparisons to performance in similar builds and makes me think that this could be a worthwhile upgrade.

MacBook Pro Touch Bar 2017 15" + Mantiz Venus MZ-02 + AMD Radeon Vega 64


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Eightarmedpet
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@itsage thanks for the info on the new cards, while I often talk about grabbing things release day I usually bottle it as I want to know real world experiences of them before making the purchases...
5700 XT looks great from all the reviews I have been reading and watching, pretty much 2070 super levels for 100 USD less, uk pricing is a bit of a piss take atm with vendors just switching the dollar sign for the pound sign. Early yesterday the XT was over 500 quid on Amazon, but that was prob just cheeky chances, looks to be sub 400 now.

Couple things I'm super interested in - noise (oh boy my Vega is hot and loud) and how this new architecture effects error 12, would love more details on both as I try to resist buying an XT as I know I should wait for non reference designs.

edit: wondering if blower style card are actually the best for eGPU use though as airflow tends to be less.

This post was modified 2 months ago

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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(@shen_lin)
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What about bootcamp Windows?

Computer: MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
eGPU: AORUS GTX 1080 Gaming Box


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Eightarmedpet
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@shen_lin check a few posts above yours buddy...

itsage how comes you went for the 5700 over the XT? Looking forward to a build guide, will be interesting to hear how these new cards and new windows builds change things (again).

XT currently around £380 on everywhere but Amazon, normal 5700 is 30-380, kinda torn which to get.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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jefniro
(@jefniro)
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Just ordered my RX 5700 XT (MSI)....it will upgrade my configuration with RX 480 (finally!).

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2016 13" MacBook Pro + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 1903


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wimpzilla
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@Eightarmedpet

The point is not about arguing if the blower style is a good cooling solution.
The point is that the AMD blower style really leave any engineer speechless.

A good blower cooling solution is used when the overall cooling solution is limited, since the hot air is extruded outside the case.
But in many cases, like gaming desktops or for eGPU use, the gpu have plenty of airflow to be cooled with.

The blower cooling solution have some cleaning limitations compared to a custom card.
Especially after a long period of time, cooling reliability over time is something that most of reviewers do not even take account of (lol).

To conclude, the AMD blower style was not suited until now for any high end AMD gpu's (i.e R7), the vapor chamber used as heatsink is useless most of the time.
The RX5700 cooler have 0 thermal mass, when the vapor chamber give up the whole heatsink become a garbage, especially with the amount of aluminum fins available.

TL:DR: AMD stock cooling solution is garbage, please wait and buy a custom design card, unless you need go for a watercooling setup.

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E=Mc²


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jefniro
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@wimpzilla unfortunately my eGPU (Akitio Node) doesn't allow graphic card 2.5x width slot! All the custom design card have these big measures (this is why they are better for cooling...). Result: I need 2x slot max width graphic card!

2016 13" MacBook Pro + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 1903


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wimpzilla
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@jefniro

Most of custom cards use a 2 slot cooler design, but i agree the Node is pretty small compared to other enclosures and not all cards will fit in.

Another point worth to note, the RX5700 have locked max clocks, i think the card is locked to 1800Mhz, instead the RX5700xt have unlocked clocks.
Which mean one can't overclock freely the RX5700, but instead get stuck to a max overclocking of 1800MHz.
AMD decision tree escalated rapidly, to reach the point of locking a card, fearing it would compete with the more expensive one. 🙄 

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E=Mc²


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jefniro
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@wimpzilla uhm... I never found a good VEGA (56/64) card that is 2x width for example...the best are 2.5x at least.

Anyway, the differences between the two cards (5700xt and 5700) are not only the frequency as you can see. 😉 

5700

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2016 13" MacBook Pro + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 1903


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Phoenix2063
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Best to wait for better drivers and partner cards to drop that ditch the blower cooling.

Pending: Add my system information and expected eGPU configuration to my signature to give context to my posts


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itsage
(@itsage)
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Posted by: Eightarmedpet

@itsage how comes you went for the 5700 over the XT? Looking forward to a build guide, will be interesting to hear how these new cards and new windows builds change things (again).

I’d like to see whether flashing the 50th Anniversary Edition BIOS onto the base RX 5700 is a possibility. That would make it an even better value!

@jefniro The RX Vega 64 Liquid-Cooled version is the best imo. It’s a standard 2-slot size. The radiator can be mounted inside several eGPU enclosures such as AKiTiO Node, Sonnet Breakaway Box, and Razer Core X. I do wish AMD had made the Anniversary Edition a Liquid-Cooled card instead of a gold trim.

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Eightarmedpet
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@wimpzilla totally understand you preferring non blower, if all things were equal I would too but as eGPU enclosures have less well designed air flow and ventilation than most PC cases I actually think a blower style card is the best option here, or I may be trying to rationalise not waiting and buying a founders edition...

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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jefniro
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Posted by: itsage

@jefniro The RX Vega 64 Liquid-Cooled version is the best imo. It's a standard 2-slot size. The radiator can be mounted inside several eGPU enclosures such as AKiTiO Node, Sonnet Breakaway Box, and Razer Core X. I do wish AMD had made the Anniversary Edition a Liquid-Cooled card instead of a gold trim.

@itsage I know, but it means more money to spend... 😉

2016 13" MacBook Pro + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 1903


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vaegpu
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Hi I'm relatively new to eGPUs,

Roughly how long do you all think it will take for AMD to release official Mac drivers or for the eGPU community to find a way to get the RX 5700 series working on Mac?

Thank you

2018 Macbook Pro 15" i9-8950HK RX560X w/ RX 5700 XT eGPU


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wimpzilla
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AMD sent a linux driver update if i believe phoronix, so the base unix drivers are there in a beta stage i suppose.

About the custom cards, you can read about here: https://www.techpowerup.com/257212/custom-radeon-rx-5700-series-only-by-mid-august-amd

The AMD PR spokesmen also "damage control" a bit, acknowledging that the cooling design is garbage.
Still it doesn't stopped AMD sales team to allow the 5700xt to be sold for 450euro.

@Eightarmedpet
If the blower used by AMD was even decent, i would be the 1st to advise you to get a card.
The gaming performances are decent for being an updated GCN architecture, so it should become even better, as usual, when AMD take time to develop the drivers.
My only concern is about the compute performances, being a gpu dedicated to console gaming, aimed to have a fast paced instruction output instead than a heavy compute ability.
Something different from Vega that prioritize compute performances over fast paced gaming scenarios, really dunno.

 @jefniro
The main difference between the cards is the TDP or the peak power consumption allowed.
Then there is a 16 texture unit/4 compute unit difference, being the dies that didn't passed the xt version validation.
The 4 CU difference can be easily compensated by gpu frequency,  that's why AMD locked down the 5700 clocks.

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Gaerraty
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Posted by: vaegpu

Hi I'm relatively new to eGPUs,

Roughly how long do you all think it will take for AMD to release official Mac drivers or for the eGPU community to find a way to get the RX 5700 series working on Mac?

Thank you

This is something for I'd love to hear your educated guesses. Also, from where has initial hints for support first appeared (let's say in Radeon VII case)? There is going on at the moment 10.14.6 betas and 10.15 Catalina betas.

Second Catalina beta has apparently revealed 8 unknown AMD cards. Of course, all these hints could be related to 2019 Mac Pro's custom MPX-cards, or hypothetical 16-inch MacBook Pro – but as the article speculates: maybe intentionally misnamed "Vega" RX 5700 cards.

I guess I'll stick with the plan to buy RX 580 but I'd love to have the shiniest one 😉

2012 15" Macbook Pro Retina (GT 650M disabled) + RX 580 @ 10Gbps-TB1>TB3 (Razer Core X) + macOS 10.14.5


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