i7-7700HQ vs i7-8550u??  

 

HeelToeNick
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April 21, 2018 3:35 am  

Hey guys, 

I have been doing my homework but the one thing I can't find info on is the 7700 vs 8550 for eGPU usage. 

I'm going to be buying a new laptop and really don't have any brand preference. I'm currently dailying a mid 2009 MBP with the core 2 duo(what a machine) so anything is an upgrade. My primary uses will be programming in IDE's and web browsing but I'd like to be able to do light gaming as well. 

I want something that will be somewhat "futureproof" (using that lightly) but I'm torn between a laptop with a 7700 or an 8550. 

Games I want to play League of Legends (i know i don't need an eGPU for that) and iRacing in VR. Which will be more up to the task of running a CPU intensive game like iRacing in VR. It also will have to have good thermals to run for longer races ex. hour plus. 

Would a gaming laptop like the gs63vr with the 1050, Razer blade or XPS 15 be best for that dual use or can i get by with a Razer Blade Stealth, x360 or xps 13?

What are the biggest pros and cons of the two chips?

Thanks in advance.


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nando4
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April 21, 2018 5:26 am  

A i7-7700HQ has a 45W TDP. A i7-8550U has a 15W TDP. The TDP will limit how far the CPU can turbo boost.

The i7-7700HQ's larger TDP means it runs hotter, hence needs to be fit to a system with more cooling, hence a bigger chassis. They are typically in your 15" gaming laptops, with some rare 14" exceptions (Razer Blade).

The i7-8550's smaller TDP means a lesser cooling system is required. Hence you find them in the featherlight ultrabooks.

So the i7-7700HQ leads the two in performance but the performance comparison below shows it's not such a big difference.

Better yet, hex-core (6-core) i7-8750H/i7-8850H chips are now appearing in the latest 15" notebooks. They can see up to 50% performance improvement on the i7-7700HQ. That is your most future-proof performance CPU.

Here is a i7-8550U vs i7-7700HQ vs i7-8750H performance comparison

 

2013 15" Dell Latitude E6540 HD8790M + RX580@4Gbps-EC2 (EXP GDC 8.x) + macOS 10.13.5 & Win10
--
eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference TableeGPU Setup 1.35


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HeelToeNick
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April 21, 2018 1:30 pm  

Very interesting. I have seen a little about the new 6 cores but the price of them is prett steep and most laptops with them come with a pretty good dgpu already. 

So it sounds like the 8550 can keep up as long as it is kept cool and can use its turbo speeds. So having a dedicated dock and maybe even cooling pad by my sim rig would allow the 8550 to keep up for long periods of time. Am I on the right path?


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ha1o2surfer
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April 22, 2018 10:57 pm  

Here is some info.. That is my 8550u in my 13 HP x360. A 7700HQ scores roughly 8800 in passmark while a stock 8550u scores 8300. Mine has been repasted but it gives you an idea what the quad core u chip is capable of. Now, does that mean it's a direct replacement. No

passmark


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jazzyy
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April 23, 2018 12:06 am  

The 8550u is a king amongst 15W CPUs, and ultimately it's a good contender for gaming with eGPU implementation, too. Lightweight laptops with docking support to your favorite TB3 enclosure is enticing. Ultimately the biggest problem you're going to face is the thermals. Every manufacturer is looking to get as thin as possible. Yes, the 15W TDP will mean less cooling be necessary, but it means people are pushing the limits on fan control to get a silent experience.

 

I would be wary of gaming on these for long term. Letting these run hot for extended durations isn't a big deal, but the laptop body will also heat up, and cause faster part degradation. With how laptop manufacturers are moving towards soldering almost every component onto the mainboard, this just means a burn out on any part will be expensive.

Early 2015 13" Macbook Pro + GTX1070@16Gbps-TB2 (Aorus Gaming Box via TB3 to TB2 adapter) + Win10
2016 15" Thinkpad P50 M1000M + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Aorus Gaming Box) + Win10


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ha1o2surfer
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April 23, 2018 1:03 am  

The temp is actually not too bad an issue on my laptop after a repaste. I understand that most people will not venture that route given the market ultrabooks are geared towards. I hover around 65-74c during all my games I have tested. The body stays cooler than my alienware did (mostly because the GPU is on the outside hehe) but I have gamed for probably 100+ hours so far on my x360 and my hands nor fingers sweat one bit. 🙂 so far a win for my particular use case!


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HeelToeNick
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April 23, 2018 2:12 pm  

Thanks guys for the insight. Really impressive what they've been able to do with these little cpu's. 

From reading, I think either option will work for what I need. I'm going to go to a couple of retailers and play with a few of them and see what I enjoy the most and go from there. 

I know I originally didn't think an 8750h would be in the card but I stumbled across this Dell 
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-dell-g3-15/spd/g-series-15-3579-laptop/dncwgf427s

The battery makes me a little nervous but other wise it seems pretty solid. Just need to find out what "optional thunderbolt port" means.


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ha1o2surfer
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April 23, 2018 10:13 pm  

That's a good question, even the highest end config shows "optional" I'd get on a chat with Dell id you do order and tell them to verify you want it with that thunderbolt port. That is honestly a great deal for those specs, even without a TB3 port BUT, it's 2018, I think all laptops need to have one even the baseline models.


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jazzyy
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April 23, 2018 11:51 pm  
Posted by: ha1o2surfer

The temp is actually not too bad an issue on my laptop after a repaste. I understand that most people will not venture that route given the market ultrabooks are geared towards. I hover around 65-74c during all my games I have tested. The body stays cooler than my alienware did (mostly because the GPU is on the outside hehe) but I have gamed for probably 100+ hours so far on my x360 and my hands nor fingers sweat one bit. 🙂 so far a win for my particular use case!

Sounds awesome. I guess I'm just wary of certain laptop makes but I do know that around here the HP ultrabooks are well received for the most part. I know their earlier models had issues with PCIE lanes but it seems like they've cleaned that up. Have you looked at undervolting at all? Just curious

Early 2015 13" Macbook Pro + GTX1070@16Gbps-TB2 (Aorus Gaming Box via TB3 to TB2 adapter) + Win10
2016 15" Thinkpad P50 M1000M + GTX1070@32Gbps-TB3 (Aorus Gaming Box) + Win10


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ha1o2surfer
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April 24, 2018 1:42 am  

I don't want to hijack this mans thread. But here is my undervolting link

https://egpu.io/forums/laptop-computing/undervolted-8550u-in-hp-x360/


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HeelToeNick
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April 24, 2018 2:01 am  

So I got on a chat with Dell and their sales team did not know so they had to get back to me. They surprisingly followed up very quickly. So the models with the 1050ti and 1060 have a tb3 and the model with the 1050 does not. So it’s very good specs for the price. I asked about pcie lanes but he did not let me know. I’m assuming Dell would be smart enough to go to 4 lanes on all models now with the XPS 15 complaints. 

I am am worried about portability with a unit that size since i have to take to from home to Campus every day for the next year. Im actually leaning towards the Aero 14 1050ti or Razer. I know the 1060 is overkill in the Razer but it allows me time to buy a larger housing with a stronger card rather than getting the Aorus and not having upgradeability.

Also the undervolting looks very effective in controlling temps. Good to know when fine tuning the set up.


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nando4
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April 24, 2018 2:38 am  

@heeltoenick, the Inspiron 15 with TB3 is a very nice system. H systems do not have the 12 PCIe lane limitation of the "U" ones (eg: 4-lanes for PCIe SSD, 4-lanes for dGPU, 1 for wifi, 2 left for TB3 controller), so it is unlikely Dell will implement a 2-lane TB3 controller on such a high performance system.

The other good news is the TB3 security settings are accessible in the BIOS. At least they were in the 7th-gen Inspiron 7577.  This allowed it's TB3 to be enabled so could be functional in a Hackintosh macOS build:

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/guide-dell-inspiron-7577-high-sierra-10-13-2-with-thunderbolt-3-working.241575/

With it's GTX1050Ti/1060 dGPU already, you may find performance adequate to forego a TB3 eGPU altogether. An option to consider down the track.  Consider you'd need a GTX1070 TB3 eGPU outputting to an external LCD to better the GTX1060 dGPU's performance.

2013 15" Dell Latitude E6540 HD8790M + RX580@4Gbps-EC2 (EXP GDC 8.x) + macOS 10.13.5 & Win10
--
eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference TableeGPU Setup 1.35


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HeelToeNick
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April 24, 2018 3:12 am  

@nando4 I was thinking the same thing. The 1060 is pretty powerful but with my VR needs I'd really like to have something a little more powerful at home. 

There's so many good options out there at the moment it makes it tough to decide which direction I want to go.


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4chip4
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April 25, 2018 12:03 pm  

My experiences are that going from 7500U to 8550U was definitely a big step up in VR performance. The cooling is certainly not quiet under load, but thermals seems to be in check, so I don't mind.  I also have a device with a 7700HQ and while I did no benchmarks, the subjective performance felt largely on-par with the 8550U for most the VR apps, when paired with a GTX980 (while the 7500 was noticeably behind these two).

2017 HP Spectre x360 15 i7-8550U GTX150 + GTX970@16Gbps-TB3 (HP Omen Accelerator) + Oculus Rift + Win10 [no guide]
HP Omen Accelerator Thunderbolt 3 enclosure legs stand removal walkthrough
Employed by HP, but my posts and opinions expressed on this forum are my own.


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June 19, 2018 7:00 pm  

Why did i not find this earlier? I have exactly the same choice and looked at the same options, first the Matebook x pro then the aero 14 (in between the XPS 15 which is off the list by now again) and currently at the G3. Sadly neither the G3 nor the matebook x pro are availible in germany at this point in time which is extremly annoying. 

I also talked to Dell support and yes the G3 is certainly a 4xPCIe (the matebook is btw only a 2x in case you didnt know), I would be interested if anyone actually has accurate data on the difference the 2 vs 4 pcie makes when not using a box with usb dock (and obviously an external display) also could someone clear up why the resolution seems to matter ? with 4K havin LESS power loss then 1080p >.>? All i currently have is this https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/pcie-slot-dgpu-vs-thunderbolt-3-egpu-internal-display-test/ and https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/2-lane-vs-4-lane-tb3-performance/#perf.
To my knowledge, following the above linked and some small other stuff, on an external display the difference should be very minimal if existant at all - please let me know if you know more.

About the Aero 14, due to a lack of reviews, the massive bezle which kinda goes against my idea of portable, the slow SATA SSD, and the high price of 1799€ this one is no longer on my comparison list. maybe these considerations help you aswell. Also be aware that the Aero 14 is send with single slot 16GB ram so if you want to have dual channel you are kinda forced to go to 32.

In favor of the Matebook is the low weight, thinness and overall portability, especially with the usbc charger. The amazingly good SSD and thermal arrangement of this laptop is just another plus.  And obviously that screen o.O. While the battery runtime is great i do worry about the quad core 8550U compared to the 8750H (around 35% more power) and i dont have any solid data on how much this will impact performance 🙁  If you decide to get a matebook do a reinstall of windows, it seems the partitioning wasnt well done and is a little small 😀
This now goes back to the question of USB ports or other docks hurting your performance even when not in use - if this is true you should certainly not get a box with any ports for the matebook, which means you should get a razer core if you want to optimize performance. See here https://egpu.io/forums/thunderbolt-enclosures/for-the-best-egpu-performance-should-we-not-use-the-usb-ethernet-on-the-egpu-box/#post-37336

The G3 is just amazing value, btw you can also get the TB3 port when going for the i7 version, this OR the 1050Ti/1060 and you get a TB3 4xPCIe option. Also definitly make sure to get the better wifi card on this device the standard one is just bad. You can save a few bucks by getting a linux version and buying & installing Windows yourself.  I can also highly recommending getting a 1x8GB ram for this one and putting in a second one yourself, this is likely the easiest laptop to upgrade i have ever seen its literally 1 screw 🙂 also a plus here is the addition of an Ethernet cable and the 3 USBA ports. Keeping this laptop cooled is quite a task, and usually you will see some throtteling, still it far outclasses any 8550U CPU obviously. Sadly it also uses a slower SATA SSD - and even the port seems to not support high speed NVMI ssds - better then SATA but nowhere near matebook level.

 

 


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4chip4
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June 20, 2018 12:24 pm  

The 4K loss is smaller because the 4K bottleneck in those tests is the GPU, while on 1080p, the bottleneck is the available PCI bandwidth. This doesn't mean "it works better in 4K", just that 120 vs 100 fps (for 1080p) is a bigger drop than 25 to 23fps (for 4K). Just like attaching the same trailer to a truck will decrease the top speed less than if it was attached to a passenger car.

2017 HP Spectre x360 15 i7-8550U GTX150 + GTX970@16Gbps-TB3 (HP Omen Accelerator) + Oculus Rift + Win10 [no guide]
HP Omen Accelerator Thunderbolt 3 enclosure legs stand removal walkthrough
Employed by HP, but my posts and opinions expressed on this forum are my own.


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(@genium_me)
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June 29, 2018 6:23 pm  

This means we will consistently see eGPUs struggle more when trying to get higher framerates compared to desktops? independent of those framerates being on 1080p (f.e with a 1070) or on 1440p (f.e. with a 1080) or on 4k (1080ti) Is this about correct as a conclusion?
Is it therefore reasonable to assume that reaching 110 to 120 frames on a UW QHD (3440x1440p) display is not not realistic when playing most (modernish) games? (even when accounting for reasonable improvements with the 11 series GPU?)
Now is this tied to the eGPU setup or to the CPU that is used not being able to handle higher fps? (the 8700k is still over 85% stronger then the 8550U, and (only) about 25 to 30% above the 8750H)
this brings up the CPU question again,  does anyone have data on using the 8750H instead of the 8550U or 7700HQ?
This review leaves me to believe that something about the 8550U is better suited for eGPUs then the 8750H is ( https://www.ultrabookreview.com/20435-xps-15-9570-review-live/#c0 see section Thunderblot3, also the scores of the dell xps 13 are overall quite good arent they!?) 
I have seen reports on reddit of people who had far better results on the 8th gen then on the 7th gen with eGPUs (will try to find it again and link it here), I wonder if any changes were done that benefit this kind of setup? Last year i read that intel wants to integrate TB3 into their upcomming CPUs, https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-integrates-thunderbolt-to-cpu,34501.html did this actually happen, are there and news on this idea at all? i cant seem to find any information thats less then a year old 🙁

 


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