is any of this worth it?
i have been doing some reading and i can buy a dell with a 1060 and i5 for about 880.00 on ebay. i can buy a i7 with a 1070 for about 1200.00 on ebay. i can also buy a i5 with a 1050ti for about 780.00 again on ebay.
so i have read benchmark tests on these TB3 enclosures that show 1080ti's performing worse or equal to a 1060 internal video card and its stated the bandwith for TB3 is the limiting factor. so that makes me think that any future gen video card would also be frame capped by bandwith on these systems and there really isn't any way to add a newer gen TB standard to these near thousand dollar investments.
so if i were to buy a 1060 laptop with TB3 i should expect to "maybe" gain 5-10 fps by upgrading to an external video card so wouldn't it make more sence to just buy a laptop with a 1070 in it and be resigned to the fact there is no reasonable upgrade path?
if i buy a lower end laptop with lets say a mx150 in it and TB3, after cost of enclosure and video card itself i am exceeding the cost of the 1070 laptop. so does this option we have here only make sence for those who maybe have an old card lying around and a laptop that maybe takes a pcmcia interface? (speaking purly from a budget stand point).
at the end of the day am i doing myself a disservice expecting this TB3 option to provide me with an upgrade path from a 1060, 1070, or even a 1050ti?
are there better egpu docks that pull more performance out of this setup? also i read that some mfg's send TB3 lanes through the chipset and others send them directly to the CPU and that you can get as much as a 60% drop in performance from TB3 if it goes though the chipset first... is that true?
are there better egpu docks that pull more performance out of this setup?
Yes, direct PCIe eGPU via a M.2 slot gives better performance. The docks are more cost effective. A M.2 eGPU may be more of the sort of solution you are looking for. Please carefully read:
The chief argument for eGPUs today is flexibility, rather than performance (and definitely not cost - eGPU enclosures are far from benefiting the volume pricing that regular PCs and laptops get).
I'm not sure what kind of benchmark you were looking at - unless you're intentionally comparing worst-case scenarios, a 1080ti in an eGPU enclosure will still run circles around any laptop-based 1060 setup in any real-world application.
The "difficulty" is that with an eGPU you take on a bit of the integration "work" that is normally done by the laptop vendor (so your gaming laptop is really plug-and-play), while with eGPUs some laptop and enclosure combinations work better than others as we're still fairly early on in the adoption curve.
Thus, an eGPU is not a replacement for a gaming laptop, those serve a specialized purpose very well. An eGPU is more of a dock for an ultrabook so you can be both super-mobile on the go and still have a "real" GPU, with external monitors and all when docked. If you put the two devices next to each other it becomes a lot more apparent why they are not catering to the same audience:
An ultralight that works well with eGPUs at a mere 1.1kg:
A gaming latop with the grunt of a full 1080, coming in at 2.6kg:
2017 HP Spectre x360 15 i7-8550U GTX150 + GTX970@16Gbps-TB3 (HP Omen Accelerator) + Oculus Rift + Win10 (no guide)
HP Omen Accelerator Thunderbolt 3 enclosure legs stand removal walkthrough
Employed by HP, but my posts and opinions expressed on this forum are my own.
ok i see where your coming from, I'm mostly concerned with price and dont care about weight at all (i actually prefer larger, gaming or not). so an ultra book with good specs is close to the ebay price of the entry i5 with 1060. given that i think id just go with the gaming laptop and use it for work and home
the benchmarks i looked at were from a range of dates and enclosures but most were admittedly older so i dont know what changes were done to these things over time since the beginning of last year.
the TB3 has access to 4 pcie lanes dosent it? that's the same as a m.2 port? so is it just the way the ports interface? the tb3 has higher latency and thus lower performance? i would have thought bandwith would be close to the same given the lanes but i suppose i never looked at the m.2 max bandwith... maybe i should research that a bit more.
not all m.2 ports will take a video card (i know that from my current laptop not working) so is the only way to really "know" to either do it myself or wait until someone on here has gone through the troubleshooting? there isn't any kinda of mfg support for this or information on it, right?
just to bounce this off you guys, i think i can get a 7577 for 920.00 with 16gb ram, 1060, 7700hq, 256 nvme, and 1tb hdd. given this i think this is a better deal than a desktop build as i can replace and sell my current laptop to off set pricing. if i can get good scaling down the road of a m.2 addon 1080 or 1090 (future what ever), then i think this is the best route to go for a budget gaming system.
do you all agree?
i have been doing a lot of reading and just want to have what i think i know confermed here: the TB3 standard is for what ever reason capping max fps, so when i see a laptop with an internal 1070 getting 180fps in a game and then i see the egpu getting 80fps that's not a 55% drop in performance but rather I'm just hitting the ceiling of the egpu fps ability?
from the numbers i have read tb3 does not bandwith limit even a 1080ti as TB2 is with in a few fps of the TB3 fps numbers, right? so in theory if down the road a card is made that is say 50% faster than a 1080 i would still be safe to expect that same 20% is drop that is so common with a TB3 enclosure?
finially does anyone have a link to benchmarks of TB3 and m.2 in the same system? i want to be able to quantify the difference apples to apples.
M.2 is direct x4 3.0 so when used with an external LCD will give performance similar to an internal dGPU and so can be used as a reference.
An M.2 eGPU gives excellent performance with a cost-effective adapter. The downside is M.2 requires cumbersome underside system access & we have no verification of compatibility other than what the eGPU adapter vendor lists and what DIYers discover & publicise. Maybe you'll add a M.2 build to extend our compatibility knowledge further? Please read the notes about M.2 eGPU adapters if interested.
Love how much research you are doing and how many questions you are asking... I'm prone to sense checking plans with as many folks as possible too.
I dont have much to offer tech knowledge wise but sounds like in your case an eGPU isn't the way to go. If money is a constraint and weight/size isn't an issue then an all in one solution makes more sense. I bought my eGPU set up because I needed the smallest lightest laptop I could find to use at work and travel with but when at home could dock and play games. A gaming laptop, or even a high end windows laptop would have prob been the same performance at 1/4 the price, but as it was a business expense cost wasn't an issue...
M.2 egpu solutions may perform slightly better but TB3 enclosures are so much neater.
2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10
i want a laptop that can handle things on its own and be future proof. the egpu is more of a way to make the laptop a rival for a desktop than to upgrade what it has. for example i am looking at a i7 7700hq so that i have enough cpu to last a few years or more, as well as at least 16gb of ram and i want high speed SSD's. if possible id love to have 4 m.2 on the laptop to have dual nvme in raid-0, 1 for egpu, and one for wifi/bt.
if i can not add a video card to a laptop then a desktop is the way to go but now that egpu is a viable solution i can now consider a laptop that NOW is able to play every game with a 1060 6gb and then 3 years from now be able to add on the external to keep it as a primary gaming machine. more cost effective.
i am looking at a dell 7577 with a 1060, 16gb ram, 256ssd, for 900-1000.00 i feel this is the best choice as the i5 variant 7567 comes with a 1050 and 8gb ram with a 128gb ssd for about 700.00. so just the cost of upgrading ram and ssd you are at the cost of the higher end 7577 AND you get a i7 to boot...
from what i have read the difference from m.2 to tb3 is very small, around 2-5% and when adding the complication of making m.2 work the tb3 seems a better option if cost is not an issue. that said i dont mind modding bios or screwing with chineesium adaptors.
i was very surprised to learn that the bandwith of even TB1 is not an issue for mid range cards and the 1080ti is left with 60% or so bandwith left over even on TB2... i had thought given the bandwith of a X16 gen 3 that a top of the line gpu would take more than 4-8gbps...
@ncc74656 Have you looked into Alienware 15 R3? Of the TB3 laptops I've tested with eGPU, this 15R3 might be the most versatile yet. For Thunderbolt 3 connection, Alienware attaches it directly to the CPU. It also has the connector for Alienware's own Graphics Amplifier. Last but not least is two M.2 slots and one mSATA slot. You have all kinds of options for upgrades with this thing. I'm not sure where you are but in the US, you can find an AW15R3 used for not much more than the Dell 7577 (depending on specs).