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Radeon 5700 or NVIDIA 2070 S
 

Radeon 5700 or NVIDIA 2070 S  

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BeardedBro
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So I run a MBP 2019, I had the R VII but it didn’t work in bootcamp, where I play most of my games. At this point if I want a graphics card that works in bootcamp first and then Mac OS 2nd what would be my best bet?

Nvidia seems to be the best overall but the 5700 seems pretty good too. Im not sure which is ultimately better but since I do most of my gaming on the bootcamp side, I don’t necessarily need the card on the macOS side since I use that for general work purposes.

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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odin
 odin
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@beardedbro

I'm assuming you are looking at the 5700 XT as the 5700 and 2070 Super are in two different classes really. There's a better selection of AIB boards for the 2070 super, but it's more expensive. I'd definitely NOT get the blower 5700 XT it's LOUD. Get the MSI Evoke or Powercolor Red Devil.

The 2070 super has the advantage of RTX and it's a little bit faster considering no OC for either card. (unless you play Forza Horizon all day). That's a tough choice IMO as the 5700 XT is a bit cheaper. Are you sure you wouldn't have the same support problem with yet another AMD card?

Why not buy both and try them both out and see which one you like best and return the other one. 🙂

LG Gram 17 | Sonnet Breakaway Box 550 | Asus Strix RTX 2070 OC Edition | Win 10 Pro 1903 + Fedora 31 Dual Boot
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BeardedBro
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I know Navi isn’t fully supported on Mac OS, though hopefully this gets fixed soon. So the 5700 xt is reduced to basically its bootcamp abilities atm. I just am not sure which card has more to offer, and holds up better etc. I’ve only looked at AMD before. I’m also not sure how hard it is to get an nvidia card to work in bootcamp etc. I assume it just works but again I’ve onkh been looking at AMD until now

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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jefniro
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Example:

AMD GPU price 400$
NVIDIA GPU price 550$

If you change your GPU every 2 years usually (for example) you will have in 6 years:

AMD total costs: 1200$
NVIDIA total costs: 1650$

So, hypothetically, you can change your AMD GPU one time more than the NVIDIA in 6 years with the same budget.

What I think about this question is that if you have the budget and if you will never need eGPU in MacOS then the best choice is 2070 Super, best performances and RTX build in. But if you need your eGPU in MacOS and you prefer pay less (maybe because you will change the GPU more frequently) the choice now is AMD because  it seems that are great this time!

This post was modified 3 months ago

2016 13" MacBook Pro + RX 5700 XT @ 32Gbps-TB3 (AKiTiO Node) + Win10 1903


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BeardedBro
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Posted by: @jefniro

Example:

AMD GPU price 400$
NVIDIA GPU price 550$

If you change your GPU every 2 years usually (for example) you will have in 6 years:

AMD total costs: 1200$
NVIDIA total costs: 1650$

So, hypothetically, you can change your AMD GPU one time more than the NVIDIA in 6 years with the same budget.

What I think about this question is that if you have the budget and if you will never need eGPU in MacOS then the best choice is 2070 Super, best performances and RTX build in. But if you need your eGPU in MacOS and you prefer pay less (maybe because you will change the GPU more frequently) the choice now is AMD because  it seems that are great this time!

I like running mine more or less in to the ground unless something insanely good comes out, then I might sell it to my cousins or something.

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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ngthtg735252
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For performance, and don't care about eGPU in MacOS, go with Nvidia
If you want to use it with MacOS later, go with 5700XT (for official driver support, plug and play, no headache).

Macbook Pro 2016 15inch - RP455 with Mantiz Venus Gray + Gigabyte Aorus RX580 8GB => P2715Q 4K 😀


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itsage
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I have been testing both and the RX 5700 XT is the better card for Mac users. It’s a matter of time before we see macOS drivers for them. In terms of Boot Camp setup, Nvidia cards tend to be easier. Windows 10 1903 seems to help with hot-plug detection and handling of PCIe components. Your MacBook Pro has a Radeon Pro dGPU so you’d need modified drivers from bootcampdrivers.com to make use of both dGPU and AMD eGPU.

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use | eGPU enclosure buying guide


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Eightarmedpet
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@itsage

what kinda tests and what kinda results? AIB cards are coming through now and prices are close to £100 cheaper than the 2070 S, and I'm very interested in the upscaling which appears to be super efficient. 
Any updates on loopback performance (assume there have been new drivers?), that's the only thing thats making me hold off.

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
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Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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itsage
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@eightarmedpet Radeon drivers for the RX 5700 XT are not very good for internal display/loopback yet. I ran the RTX 2070 Super last night and internal display mode vs external monitor were much closer. Take a look at this post.

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use | eGPU enclosure buying guide


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BeardedBro
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Posted by: @itsage

I have been testing both and the RX 5700 XT is the better card for Mac users. It's a matter of time before we see macOS drivers for them. In terms of Boot Camp setup, Nvidia cards tend to be easier. Windows 10 1903 seems to help with hot-plug detection and handling of PCIe components. Your MacBook Pro has a Radeon Pro dGPU so you'd need modified drivers from bootcampdrivers.com to make use of both dGPU and AMD eGPU.

So the RX 5700 is better for Macs overall or only once it gets os support? I figured the 2070 S would deliver better numbers overall

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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odin
 odin
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@beardedbro

The 2070 Super will definitely perform better given no overclocking for either card. If you truly do not care about using the eGPU in macOS I'd go with nVidia.

LG Gram 17 | Sonnet Breakaway Box 550 | Asus Strix RTX 2070 OC Edition | Win 10 Pro 1903 + Fedora 31 Dual Boot
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BeardedBro
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Posted by: @odin

@beardedbro

The 2070 Super will definitely perform better given no overclocking for either card. If you truly do not care about using the eGPU in macOS I'd go with nVidia.

Yeah I’m slowly realizing it’s just better to game in bootcamp. What’s the setup like?

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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itsage
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@beardedbro For your 2019 15″ MacBook Pro, it’s best to hot-plug the eGPU once Windows has fully loaded. Give the system a couple minutes to detect and configure the Thunderbolt 3 connection then proceed to install Nvidia drivers.

 

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use | eGPU enclosure buying guide


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odin
 odin
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@beardedbro

37 game head-to-head at 1440p and 4K.

It looks like the 5700XT is a great option, I was surprised they didn't mention RTX at all as a forward thinking feature though.

This post was modified 3 months ago

LG Gram 17 | Sonnet Breakaway Box 550 | Asus Strix RTX 2070 OC Edition | Win 10 Pro 1903 + Fedora 31 Dual Boot
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Eightarmedpet
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@odin I'm surprised by those results to be honest! Especially when the XT is kinda meant to go up against the 2060 S or 2070 at most... now just to wait and see what the best AIB option is, my money is on this number... Red Dragon by PowerColor

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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odin
 odin
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@eightarmedpet

Right on. I don't see why anyone that doesn't care about RTX wouldn't save $100 and get a 5700 XT. The gameplay performance seems to be pretty much a wash unless you like to see numbers in benchmarks. I would imagine you probably can't tell the difference just playing games. 

The only things I could see swaying anyone are

 - Cuda: probably niche
 - RTX: This will get more commonplace as the year goes on, Control looks amazing so we're finally seeing some good implementations that are merging well with artistic vision and direction instead of LOOK REFLECTIONS.. We have until 2020 at least until AMD releases anything accelerating RT.
 - Driver Quality ??: I'm not up on AMD's driver quality for windows (if you're gaming as a hobby, you're using windows lets be realistic), but I think historically they've been behind in quality and stability. Not like they don't both have open issues, it's software there's always bugs and open issues. nVidia always seemed to have less of them though (gameplay and frametime wise)
- Performance: If you are looking at something a decent margin faster than a 5700 XT / 2070 Super then you only have nVidia to choose from for now.

If I had a Mac as my only device I would totally go in on a 5700 XT just to get the obvious macOS support down the road (or does it work now?).  I have a 2017 MBP 15 w/ Radeon Pro 555 but I only do work on it, the Gram 17 is my fun time unit, and I want RTX so I'm willing to pay for it. 🙂

This post was modified 3 months ago

LG Gram 17 | Sonnet Breakaway Box 550 | Asus Strix RTX 2070 OC Edition | Win 10 Pro 1903 + Fedora 31 Dual Boot
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itsage
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@odin Good assessment on this comparo. The last mile device which imo is as equally important is the display/monitor. AMD has always been the value option and they continue to do so, competitively with Navi cards. Personally I like AMD better because of their more-open approach vs Nvidia. Does the RTX 2070 work well with Manjaro using your LG Gram 17?

 

This post was modified 3 months ago

Best ultrabooks for eGPU use | eGPU enclosure buying guide


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odin
 odin
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@itsage

I don't use it in Linux, only Windows. I can try it one of these days...

I also switched to Fedora 31 + Deepin not long ago I should update that. 🙂

LG Gram 17 | Sonnet Breakaway Box 550 | Asus Strix RTX 2070 OC Edition | Win 10 Pro 1903 + Fedora 31 Dual Boot
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Eightarmedpet
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@odin great comparison, and the twist at the end! Ha. Seriously though, thought you were going to be all in on AMD.
I have read about quite a few driver issues with Navi though, so lets see what happens there...

2017 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar
GTX1060 + AKiTiO Thunder3 + Win10
GTX1070 + Sonnet Breakaway Box + Win10
GTX1070 + Razer Core V1 + Win10
Vega 56 + Razer Core V1 + macOS + Win10
Vega 56 + Mantiz Venus + macOS + W10

---

LG 5K Ultrafine flickering issue fix


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wimpzilla
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The AMD gpu driver itself have improved infinite folds compared to what it was 5/6 years ago, almost on par with Nvidia gameready driver release. 

However AMD control panel is buggy as hell, if you never use the Adrenalin panel one will never notice about.
But if one dig in and begin to actually use and test the options offered by the control panel, one rapidly notice how broken the AMD Adrenalin suite is!

At least Nvidia allow you to install the basic panel if one doesn't want the GeforceExp, it is completely outdated for being in 2k19, but at least do the job.
AMD instead and as usual do not allow the user to come back to a simpler Catalyst control center without all the crap added by the latest Adrenalin updates.

So imo both drivers suite are pretty the same, with the Adrenalin suite being a bit more buggy than the GeforceExp.
At last, AMD/Nvidia telemetry and data collection through drivers is simply insane, saying insane is pretty much an euphemism i suppose!

This post was modified 3 months ago

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
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mac_editor
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Posted by: @wimpzilla

However AMD control panel is buggy as hell, if you never use the Adrenalin panel one will never notice about.
But if one dig in and begin to actually use and test the options offered by the control panel, one rapidly notice how broken the AMD Adrenalin suite is!

Truth. From my experience though I also think that NVIDIA drivers are overall better quality. I've had issues with setting GPU overrides with AMD, never with NVIDIA. Example: Frame Rate Target Control + Enhanced Sync on FIFA 19 on AMD causes blue screens randomly (sometimes not for days). Similar settings on NVIDIA just work. The reason I'm running an AMD GPU is macOS (where it is admittedly good).

This post was modified 3 months ago

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wimpzilla
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@mac_editor
For sure MacOS and apple gave a new refreshing look to the AMD gpu's for pro usage.
And i believe you when saying that the drivers are decent on MacOS, pretty sure apple spent at least some time testing it.

Not sure tho apple would have delivered the same level of quality with Nvidia gpu's, at least not without Nvidia lending wide hardware control to apple as AMD did.
I mean i don't think that AMD integration into apple product is the major issue when dealing with apple, so the consumer got a decent gpu acceleration at the end. 

This post was modified 3 months ago

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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mac_editor
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Posted by: @wimpzilla

Not sure tho apple would have delivered the same level of quality with Nvidia gpu's, at least not without Nvidia lending ample hardware control to apple as AMD did.

Interestingly, Apple includes the NVIDIA 7-series GPUs in macOS (last NVIDIA Mac was in 2014 - still receives updates hence drivers), and those are actually fantastic. It is disappointing to see how the Apple-NVIDIA battle impacts customers where if only they work together, we would have so much more choice. Before joining this forum, I was a team-green person, but the constraints of setting up eGPU on my then-system led me to resort to AMD at the time (for that particular Mac, it was an easier setup at half the performance).

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wimpzilla
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@mac_editor
The latest Nvidia gpu's supported begin to be pretty old, i mean compared to the hardware we got today, so it's not really hard to update these drivers.
But imagine having MacOS powered by a 2080, with CUDA and full RTX capabilities, it is an huge gap in hardware control Nvidia have to lend to apple.

It would be pretty insane tho i admit, but in reality at the end, the raw compute power of both sides is more or less to equal when used for professional purposes.
Obviously taking aside one moment the upper level of real professional gpu's like Quadro and MI cards.

2012 13-inch Dell Latitude E6320 + R9 [email protected] (EXP GDC 8.4) + Win10
E=Mc²


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Rycco
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I think with the new modular Mac Pro coming, Apple will have to release drivers for the new GPUs from Nvidia. People will want to use RTX graphic cards on those machines, so the excuse "we don't support Nvidia recent GPUs because there are no Macs with those" isn't valid anymore.

mid-2017 15" Macbook Pro RP555 + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS & Win10


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itsage
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@rycco Apple already has an answer for that: “Please configure your new Mac Pro with a pair of AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duos.”

 

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mac_editor
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@rycco

Nothing stops Apple from saying they only support AMD cards. At WWDC this year, they announced quite a few technologies that depended on CUDA/NVIDIA will also be creating Metal-capable versions. So perhaps they are going all in on AMD-only (please let me be wrong and you right).

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Rycco
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Posted by: @itsage

@rycco Apple already has an answer for that: "Please configure your new Mac Pro with a pair of AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duos."

 

Well, it took a few years for them to listen to the pro users and build a modular computer. It could take some more years for Nvidia GPUS to run on MacOS. We should all hope that Nvidia achieve a considerable performance advantage over AMD, then Apple will have to support it.

mid-2017 15" Macbook Pro RP555 + [email protected] (Mantiz Venus) + macOS & Win10


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odin
 odin
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Posted by: @rycco
Posted by: @itsage

@rycco Apple already has an answer for that: "Please configure your new Mac Pro with a pair of AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duos."

 

Well, it took a few years for them to listen to the pro users and build a modular computer. It could take some more years for Nvidia GPUS to run on MacOS. We should all hope that Nvidia achieve a considerable performance advantage over AMD, then Apple will have to support it.

If anything AMD has narrowed the gap in the mid-range, upper-mid range. nVidia is all by themselves at the high-end though. I would imagine if AMD releases an upper-tier card sometime in the next 6 months the gap will be very narrow.

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BeardedBro
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So borderlands 3 came out. Benchmarked my Mac with lowest settings. 21.3 FPS. I was thinking I’d get 30ish. Nah lol. On badass settings I benchmarked 12.3 FPS

looks like I def need the 2070s lol. Been holding off just to see how powerful of a card id need. Overall who makes the best 2070 cards? Any preferences?

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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itsage
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@beardedbro The Founders Edition cards look great and have excellent build quality. Are you getting those Borderlands 3 results on the Radeon VII?

 

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BeardedBro
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Posted by: @itsage

@beardedbro The Founders Edition cards look great and have excellent build quality. Are you getting those Borderlands 3 results on the Radeon VII?

 

That’s with my internal. I returned the 7 after it wouldn’t work well in bootcamp and they said they weren’t supporting the card anymore. I’ll benchmark with the new card when I get it.

i was also looking at the 2080 since it’s only $100 more, is that a better investment? Seems like people were clocking it over 2k which is impressive as hell. I don’t know who makes the best graphics cards or what each company offers over others like MSI vs so and so etc

edit: internal is a Radeon pro 555x with 4gb GDDR5 memory 

This post was modified 2 months ago

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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BeardedBro
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Decided I’m just going to go with the 2080 instead. Just need to figure out from who lol. 

I do have a slight issue though. When I partitioned my drive for bootcamp I only gave it like 150 gigs, is there a way to increase that amount post partitioning or would I have to wipe and repartition it again?

2019 15" MBP running 10.14.5 + Bootcamp Win 10 (18362.295)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9
Memory: 32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4
eGPU: Red Devil 5700 xt in a Razer Core X Chroma


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ttamnogard
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@beardedbro

unfortunately, you have to start again. You can use boot camp to delete but you can’t resize as far as i know. i have enjoyed using the rad vii but on a mac mini it is much different because i’m not dealing with two GPU.

I’m trying to finalize a trade to get a 2080 Ti... when I boot into mac, I just direct connect an Hdmi.... windows is running off the eGPU... (though I did have to do a rebuild thanks ms and your great / not great recent update)

2018 Mac mini running Radeon vii


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joevt
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@ttamnogard

I like the iPartition app from https://coriolis-systems.com . It's free now that they've stopped development. They no longer do updates but it still works. I think it has some draw update problem in Mojave - you may need to do some clicking to refresh views.

It can resize partitions and move existing partitions. When moving partitions I use starting block numbers from "gpt -r show -l /dev/disk#". This is necessary to keep Recovery HD partitions next to their corresponding macOS partition (I have every OS since 10.5 Lion on my disks).

 It won't resize APFS partitions - maybe you can use Disk Utility to reduce APFS partition sizes. If Disk Utility won't do that, maybe you can clone the Windows partition to a disk image, delete the Windows partition, then shrink the APFS partition in Disk Utility, then restore the cloned Windows partition to a new Windows partition.

Mac mini (2018), Mac Pro (Early 2008), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), GA-Z170X-Gaming 7, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Sonnet Echo Express III-D, Trebleet Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe M.2 case


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