macOS External GPU Review – Out-of-Body Experiment

Updated May 3, 2018 | Posted March 29, 2018 itsage eGPU Reviews 45 Comments

Recap

macOS External GPU has been possible for several years thanks to the selfless work of many in our eGPU community. Most notable is the automate-eGPU script Goalque wrote that enables eGPU in 10.9 to 10.12. Today Apple officially adds this highly-anticipated capability in macOS High Sierra 10.13.4 [17E199]. It’s now available to the general public but not without limitations. As released, only Thunderbolt 3 Macs can make use of external GPU with select AMD Radeon graphics cards.

The questions that immediately come to mind for many Mac users are whether there’s a workaround for non-supported systems, Thunderbolt 1/2 and Nvidia graphics cards. There are no easy answers, but the ball is now in Apple’s court. eGPU.io’s tremendous growth was due in part to a strong Mac user base looking for external graphics card solutions. Now that Apple has officially incorporated eGPU into their Mac platform, it’s high time for the folks in Cupertino to provide first-party support.

macOS External GPU: AORUS Gaming Box + Apple MacBook laptops

The Journey

My first attempt with external graphics was a few summers ago when I realized the Mac Pro tower’s form factor would not return in the Mac lineup. The next logical upgrade path was through an external enclosure with PCIe slot. The Mac Pro trashcan planted this seed with its six Thunderbolt 2 ports that Apple engineers cleverly attached directly to the Xeon CPU [system block diagram]. So I hopped on that train and built an eGPU out of an AKiTiO Thunder2 enclosure. The setup process wasn’t for the faint of heart. Thanks to the resources already made available on TechInferno forums moderated by Nando, I was able to piece together a Radeon RX 470 eGPU for my Macs. The software that enabled this upgrade was Goalque‘s automate-eGPU script.

macOS External GPU RX 470 + AKiTiO Thunder2

Shortly after joining and learning about eGPU in macOS on TechInferno forums, Nando, Goalque, and I were banned due to conflicts of interest with the site owners. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise. It gave us a fresh start to build a new forum, fully dedicated to external graphics card solutions. eGPU.io is now the new and hopefully permanent home for eGPU enthusiasts. Our main mission has always been to make external GPU easy and accessible to all. Intel, AMD, and Thunderbolt partners share the same vision. The complete picture came together on June 5th, 2017 when Apple announced macOS external GPU support in High Sierra at WWDC.

Frequent visits from Cupertino – Dec 25th, 2016 to May 31st, 2017

High Sierra beta was available shortly after the announcement. I tested with the Sonnet Breakaway Box + RX 580 eGPU that is the very same setup Apple used for its eGPU Development Kit. While it worked, this early build was limited to the AMD Radeon RX 580 only and hot-plugging was buggy. Goalque‘s script worked more reliably in 10.12 at that point in time. macOS 10.13 was released fall 2017 with external graphics card support for developers only. We kept ourselves in the loop throughout macOS external GPU development process from 10.13 to 10.13.3. While there was marginal improvement following each update and additional support for Radeon Vega GPUs, no major change was in sight.

Then came 10.13.4 Beta 1, version 17E139j, and with it an initial glimpse of the public release of macOS external GPU. Beta 1 was an amazing build that refined the user experience significantly over previous versions. External GPU was now plug-and-play with almost all Thunderbolt Macs. We were beyond excited and anxious for the final release day. This excitement was short-lived. Beta 2 wreaked havoc on the hierarchy of trust. It broke compatibility with Thunderbolt 1 and Thunderbolt 2 Macs. Longtime Mac users, myself included, felt a punch to the gut when subsequent 10.13.4 Beta continued this trend, refusing to work with non-Thunderbolt 3 Macs. If you’ve been enjoying external graphics with your older Macs, stay with 10.13.3 until further notice.

Reality eventually set in; Apple is a control freak, and for them to add a software feature to support third-party hardware is unprecedented. As seen below, there are about a dozen of Thunderbolt 3 eGPU enclosures compatible with macOS. It’s likely only a handful will be macOS-certified. In the whole scheme there’s a deadline to meet and the fewer Macs to focus on, the more quality assurance Apple can provide to ensure a successful launch. I remain hopeful macOS external GPU functionality will be extended to older Thunderbolt Mac systems in due time.

April 7th 2018 Update: mac_editor found a workaround to enable external GPU functionality for TB1/2 Mac on 10.13.4.

Thunderbolt 3
Enclosures

ADT-Link
R43SG-TB3

Razer
Core X

AORUS/Gigabyte
Gaming Box

Asus XG
Station Pro

Sonnet Breakaway
350 | 550 | 650 | 350D | 550 | 650

Mantiz
Venus

Razer
Core V2

HP Omen
Accelerator

AKiTiO
Node

VisionTek
mini eGFX

Razer Core
X Chroma

Zotac Box
Mini

Blackmagic
eGPU | Pro

AKiTiO
Node Lite

AKiTiO
Node Pro

Sonnet
Breakaway Puck

Lenovo TB3
Graphics Dock

Sapphire
GearBox

PowerColor
Devil Box

AKiTiO
Node Duo

Highpoint
Rocketstor 6661A

OWC Mercury
Helios 3

AKiTiO
Thunder3

Netstor
Hercules HL23T

Asus ROG
XG Station 2

Thunderbolt 3
Enclosures

Popularity rank 6mo

new

#10

#11

#12

Popularity rank 6mo

Appearance

Included GPU¹

✖

RX580 | GTX1070 | GTX1080 | RTX2070

✖

✖ | ✖ | ✖ | RX580 | Vega56 | Vega64

✖

✖ | RX570

✖

RP580 | Vega56

✖

RX560 | RX570

GTX1050

✖

Included GPU¹

Price US$

$260

$300

$420 | $500 | $670 | $650

$330

$199 | $280 | $399 | $439 | $799 | $949

$279

$500

$300

$230

$350 | $500

$400

$220

$699 | $1199

$219

$349

$399 | $499

$325

$259

$300

$370

$175

$200

$250

$435

$550

Price US$

Review

discuss

link

link| link | link | unbox

✖

✖

Review

PSU type-location²

ATX or AC

ATX-int

fATX-int

AC-ext

SFX-int

fATX-int

ATX-int

SFX-int

AC-ext

ATX-int

AC-ext

custom-int

AC-ext

SFX-int

AC-ext

fATX-int

AC-ext

fATX-int

PSU type-location²

PSU max power

unlimited

650W

450W

330W

350W |550W | 650W | 350W| 550W | 650

550W

500W

400W

240W

700W

180W

400W

72W

500W

160W | 220W

170W

500W

150W

60W

90W

72W

300W

680W

PSU max power

GPU max power³

unlimited

500W

225W

300W

300W | 375W | 475W | 225W| 375W | 475W

375W

300W

375W

150W

500W

150W

✖

25W

400W

300W

375W

25W x2

25W

300W

500W

GPU max power³

Power delivery (PD)⁴

15W

100W

15W

15W | 87W | 87W | 60W | 87W | 87W

87W

65W

60W

15W

45W

100W

15W

85W

15W

60W x2

45W

65W

60W

60W + 15W

15W

100W

Power delivery (PD)⁴

USB-C controller

TI83

TI82

TI83

USB-C controller

PCIe slots @ link width

1 @ x4

1 @x4

2 @ x2

1 @ x4

1 @x4

1 @ x4

PCIe slots @ link width

TB3 USB-C ports / eGFX?⁵

1 ✖

1 ✔

1 ✖

2 ✔

2 ✖

1 ✔

✔

1 ✔

2 ✖

1 ✔

TB3 USB-C ports / eGFX?⁵

I/O ports bandwidth⁶

✖

5Gbps

10Gbps

✖

5Gbps

✖

5Gbps

10Gbps

✖

5Gbps

10Gbps

5Gbps

I/O ports / bandwidth⁶

Included GPU ports

✖

AMD: 3xDP,HDMI
NV: DP, HDMI,2xDVI-D, USB-C (RTX)

✖

2xDP,HDMI,DVI-D

✖

✖ | 2xDP, 2xHDMI,DVI-D

✖

HDMI
TB3/USB-C

✖

3xDP,HDMI

2xDP,HDMI

✖

Included GPU ports

Size (litres) [ compare ]

GPU

14.45

3.30

8.23

12.71

11.56

7.65

16.00

14.09

2.30

14.45

4.17

9.64

2.64

12.82

1.01

0.74

8.45

16.65

10.54

2.40

2.69

2.64

8.16

20.03

Size (litres) [ compare ]

Max GPU len (in/cm)

unlimited

12.99/33.0

6.65/16.9

12.24/31.1

12.20/31.0

13.00/33.0

11.81/30.0

11.42/29.0

12.60/32.0

6.89/17.5

12.99/33.0

7.87/20.0

✖

7.87/20.0

12.60/32.0

10.50/26.6

12.20/31.0

8.66/22.0

8.20/20.8

7.75/19.6

7.87/20.0

12.60/32.0

12.20/31.0

Max GPU len (in/cm)

Weight (kg/lb)

0.1/0.22

6.48/14.29

2.35/5.19

2.95 /6.50

3.20/7.10

3.60/7.92

4.95/10.89

5.50/12.10

4.90/10.78

0.85/1.90

6.91/15.23

0.85/1.87

4.60/10.20

2.00/4.39

3.40/7.40

2.38/5.25

0.69 / 1.51

3.30/7.30

3.60/7.92

5.00/11.00

5.18/11.40

1.40/3.08

2.00/4.39

2.70/5.94

5.10/11.22

Weight (kg/lb)

Updated firmware⁷

33.1✔

F1.1| F1.0 | F1.0 | F1.0 ✔

✔

25.2 | 25.2 | 25.2 | 25.1 | 25.2 | 25.2 ✔

25.1✔

26.1✔

25.25✔

25.1✔

40.1✔

26.1✔

26.3✔

B1-25+4.4.3✔

✔

25.1✔

v003✔

26.26✔

25.101✔

33.3

✖

25.1✔

v25✔

Updated firmware⁷

TB3 cable length (cm)⁸

150

200

100

TB3 cable length (cm)⁸

Vendor page

link

link| link | link | link

link

link | link

link

Vendor page

User builds

✖

link

link & link

link

✖

link & link

link

User builds

User builds macOS

✖

link

link& link

link

✖

link & link

link

User builds macOS

Footnotes ^{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8}

¹ For macOS ≥ 10.13.4: AMD RX480/580 & these are supported. Nvidia 10.13.x support can be added with purge-wrangler.
² Flex-ATX (fATX) PSUs have a tiny 40mm high RPM cooling fan that is noisy under load. Separate external-AC PSUs are not included in product's size.
³ Meet or exceed your intended video card's peak power requirements. See TechPowerUp card reviews, eg: GTX1080Ti to find this.
⁴ Meet or exceed your TB3 notebook's charger wattage for the TB3 enclosure to be a single-cable solution that includes charging. eg Macbook USB-C chargers.
⁵ 2nd TB3 port can be DP, USB-C or daisy-chain TB3 . eGFX certifies enclosure for external GPU use rather than just PCIe expansion. Note: Intel often disallows a 2nd TB3 port on eGFX enclosures.
⁶ USB-based enclosure I/O ports exhibit flaky behavior under load as described, except for Razer Core V2, Chroma X & VisionTek mini eGFX which use a 2nd TB3 controller to host I/O ports.
⁶ ports' use reduces eGPU bandwidth by up to 31.2% @10Gbps, 15.6% @5Gbps. Except for (i) Displayport devices (ii) XG Station 2 that hosts ports off a separate USB-B cable.
⁶ If used on a TB2/1 system via a US$49 Apple TB3-TB2 adapter, USB ports are not visible in Windows (inc Aorus' fan control). They do appear in macOS. Ref: theitsage.
⁷ Allows eGPU detection in Windows for systems reporting "external GPUs supported: no" in the Intel Thunderbolt software.
⁸ If require a longer TB3 cable, consider these: US$50 AKiTiO 200cm, $50 Cable Matters 100cm.

Reference material

here ◄ eGPU Port Bandwidth Reference Table for CUDA-Z or AIDA64 measured bandwidth
here ◄ TB3 candidate notebooks - set CPU, LCD and/or Brand of interest then view System model dropdown

The Good

The most obvious and welcome change is true hot-plug capability for macOS external GPU. In High Sierra 10.13 to 10.13.3, hot-plugging was partial in that the system would ask you to log out then log back in to initialize the eGPU. In 10.13.4, this is no longer the case. Provided you have compatible hardware, you’ll see a brand new icon in the Top Menu bar for external graphics status. For now this icon’s sole purpose is to disconnect the external graphics card safely. 10.13.4 also shows the correct identification of supported Radeon GPUs. In previous builds these cards would show up as “R9 XXX”. I foresee future enhancements to include a dedicated panel in System Preferences so that users can manually select which graphics card is engaged depending on workload and energy settings.

external GPU detected notification in 10.13.3

Clamshell mode is another highlight. This had been working intermittently depending on the build. Through six beta builds of 10.13.4, clamshell mode worked flawlessly on my late 2016 15″ MacBook Pro and mid 2017 13″ MacBook Pro. Sleep behavior was an improvement over previous versions too. Putting the computer to sleep while the eGPU is connected also puts the eGPU to sleep. External GPU functionality resumes working when the computer is woken up. Sleep issues may have been the deciding factor to axe Thunderbolt 1 & 2 Mac support. Using an eGPU with my Mac Pro trashcan had often caused unpredictable sleep and wake-up behaviors.

The Bad

In the current state macOS external GPU cannot provide loop-back acceleration to the internal display. This effects gaming use because the external graphics card is rendered useless without an external monitor. Professional applications that rely on OpenCL fare better because they can use all graphics cards presented in the system. In contrast AMD XConnect (Windows only) provides eGPU internal display acceleration. On the latest Adrenalin drivers, the performance difference between internal display vs. external monitor was limited to single-digit percentages.

Revision: Apple support article #HT208544 assigns the responsibility of internal display eGPU-acceleration on third-party software developers: “Pro applications and 3D games that accelerate the built-in display of an iMac or MacBook Pro. (This capability must be enabled by the application’s developer.)”

Timing for this release is rather unfortunate. Prices for graphics cards in general and AMD in specific have been inflated due to cryptomining. If you don’t currently have a compatible eGPU setup, it’s certainly not a good time to buy in. The recently announced Gigabyte RX 580 Gaming Box is one of the few reasonable options. For reference, this table shows all Radeon GPUs with native external graphics support in macOS High Sierra.

Natively Supported macOS External GPUs
Radeon Vega	Radeon Ellesmere	Radeon Baffin
Pro WX 9100	Pro WX 7100	Pro WX 5100

Vega Frontier Edition	RX 580	Pro WX 4100

RX Vega 64 Liquid	RX 570	RX 560

RX Vega 64	RX 480	RX 560D

RX Vega 56	RX 470	RX 460

The Ugly

On the developer front, third-party software needs to catch up to macOS external GPU in 10.13.4. Even though it’s been nearly a year since the release of 10.13 beta, many software have yet to take advantage of an eGPU. Apple’s own software needs improvement too. Final Cut Pro X was working very well with eGPU up until version 10.3.4. The latest version 10.4 ironically refuses to use the external graphics card for export. Then there’s the clusterfuck of software relying on Nvidia graphics cards for CUDA framework. The current Nvidia eGPU workaround may or may not survive this and ongoing macOS updates.

Last but not least is gaming in Windows. While eGPU in Bootcamp mode is neither supported nor related to this 10.13.4 release, many Mac users have been looking forward to using Thunderbolt 3 MacBook Pros as part-time gaming laptops. I wish there was better news to report. For the time being, we must continue to follow an exhaustive procedure to make use of external GPU in Bootcamp. I tried both Nvidia and AMD eGPUs with all three variations of the TB3 MacBook Pros and lived to document it. The benchmark results below demonstrate the difference between Windows vs. macOS external GPU performance.

2016 15" MacBook Pro	10.13.4 RX580	W10 RX580	10.13.4 RXVega56	W10 RXVega56

Unigine Valley	36.2 FPS	47.5 FPS	58.8 FPS	70.2 FPS
Unigine Heaven	29.5 FPS	46.0 FPS	53.5 FPS	74.1 FPS
Tomb Raider 2013	48.7 FPS	83.0 FPS	84.4 FPS	124.2 FPS
Shadow of Mordor	12.2 FPS	70.9 FPS	45.8 FPS	96.5 FPS
Hitman	27.4 FPS	67.8 FPS	28.6 FPS	66.3 FPS
Dirt Rally	28.6 FPS	51.6 FPS	72.1 FPS	92.8 FPS

Mac Ecosystem

Upgrading a Mac used to mean shoving hardware components inside the computer. Apple’s Thunderbolt 3 I/O only strategy on its MacBook Pro lineup is shaping the new Mac ecosystem by attaching out-of-body components. My interpretation of this add-on paradigm is similar to that of DSLR cameras. You buy the body (Mac) to get started, then invest in the lens and flash (TB3 peripheral) to get the most of your setup. A high-quality lens can last a long time and pair well to many bodies. So can a Thunderbolt eGPU enclosure with compatible Macs. Apple is seemingly positioning itself to sell Macs only as a replaceable component of a more complete computer setup.

Besides eGPU, other Thunderbolt 3 peripherals are gradually coming to the market. The LG Ultrafine 5K display is no longer the only Thunderbolt 3 monitor. Mantiz designed its new Thunderbolt 3 dock Titan to specifically cater to the MacBook Pro with matching esthetics and anodized space grey finish. There were a handful of Thunderbolt 3 external high-speed storage drives announced at CES 2018. AKiTiO recently introduced Thunderbolt 3 10Gbps Ethernet adapter. Sonnet has also started selling a Thunderbolt 3 memory card reader. These are just to name a few.

What’s Next

Consumer adoption is a crucial factor in determining macOS external GPU success. Thunderbolt technology has been available in a Mac since 2011. After so many years, Thunderbolt 3 has its best shot yet with a wide range of applications, eGPU being front and center. What concerns me most is the gnawing suspicion that top-level decision makers still have doubts about the costs vs benefits of TB3 technology. Thunderbolt external graphics solutions are costly for home users, much more so for business owners. In most production environments, the rule of thumb is to never run the latest OS version. Let the tech inclined suffer through bugs for a year before the production people get the stable release.

Next comes hardware investment. Most agencies I know still haven’t upgraded the majority of their equipment to Thunderbolt 3 Macs. After being neglected for many years without a proper “pro” Mac, Apple’s recent efforts excite some but leave many skeptical. Had Apple re-enabled external graphics in Thunderbolt 2 Macs, more users would be exposed to the benefits of this feature and would be more inclined to transition to the new ecosystem. Now is the time for first-party support to step up. The success of external graphics as a platform within Thunderbolt rests on the shoulders of Intel, Apple and Thunderbolt partners.

See also

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6
AKiTiO Node Duo Review - Two Slots, Endless Possibilities

October 15, 2018

24
State of eGPU for Macs – Mojave 10.14 Update

September 24, 2018

129
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76
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60
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37
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168
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17
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18
ASUS ROG XG Station 2 Review - Irresponsible Power

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11
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24
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November 3, 2017

69
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October 14, 2017

38
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34
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28
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9
Acer Graphics Dock Review

December 6, 2016

21

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Admin

goalque

Posted by: itsage In the current state macOS external GPU cannot provide loop-back acceleration to the internal display. Actually nothing prevents us from developing apps and games that can be accelerated on the internal display. Apple puts responsibility on developers. “Pro applications and 3D games that accelerate the built-in display of an iMac or MacBook Pro. (This capability must be enabled by the application’s developer.)” https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544 “If an external GPU needs to send data to the built-in display, that data must first be transferred from the external GPU to the built-in GPU that drives the built-in display.” https://developer.apple.com/documentation/metal/fundamental_components/about_multi_gpu_and_multi_display_setups/ I explained… Read more »

Member

xsmi123

Goalque, Thanks for all of the work toy guys have done on this page as well as taking care of the Mac faithful with GPU work in general. I do have a question. Is the performance hit going to be as drastic for internal monitor acceleration as this sounds?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k_jnoEtLTM

Forum reply »

Member

Zetthard

I’m using mid 2014 MacBook Pro and really hope that Apple will return eGPU support for TB2 as well, including Bootcamp eGPU support. Ideally for both AMD and Nvidia graphic cards. Untill then I’m going to stay at 10.13.3.

Forum reply »

Member

iSilver

Unfortunately it seems that the RX 560 and below aren’t supported as of now. They’re not listed on the official apple support page (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544), and after brief testing with my RX 560 and 10.13.4 I got the same behavior that was reported here: https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/akitio-node-rx-560-10-13-4-beta-black-screen/

Forum reply »

Guest

Fabiana Espíndola

We’re being pushed to Windows for compatibility and higher frame rates. No complaints, really.

Forum reply »

Member

ikir

Posted by: Fabiana Espíndola
We’re being pushed to Windows for compatibility and higher frame rates. No complaints, really.

Cmon it is a start, 10.13.4 brings a lot of fresh air. Higher frame rates depends of many things.

Forum reply »

Guest

Dan Streaman

Higher frame rates depends on hardware and software. Hardware is the same, the app software is the same, the OS software is not.
Guess what the problem is… 🙂

Forum reply »

Guest

Daniel Bölke

Is the “RX 580 Gaming Box” enclosure seen in the picture also supported?

Forum reply »

Author

itsage

@daniel_bolke The Gaming Box in picture is the AORUS 1080. When the Gigabyte RX 580 Gaming Box arrives, it should be compatible with Thunderbolt 3 Macs.

Forum reply »

Guest

star-affinity

Saddening to see the frame rate results in that diagram between macOS and Windows, especially for Dirt Rally in macOS 10.13.4 compared to that of Windows – that game is the only one of the software in that diagram that I know is supposed to use Metal 2 for rendering, and despite that Windows gets about 20 more frames per second on both RX580 and RXVega56. While It’s understandable that Windows is ahead I think that difference is too big. Apple (and the developers?) still has a way to go untill macOS can be areasonable alternative to Windows for gaming.… Read more »

Author

itsage

@star-affinity I agree the results are rather disheartening. Apple talked a big game but their actions have continuously been discouraging towards Mac users. When software developers and hardware vendors don’t see an enthused user base, they will not invest heavily in the platform. To be honest with you, judging by the progress of external GPU support in High Sierra, it seems Apple did not do much until about 3 months ago.

Forum reply »

Editor

mac_editor

@itsage to add to your points above, there are far too many issues with High Sierra besides just eGPU support and Metal that really need fixes. At least the Metal API works. Apple messed up in 2017 – this year should be focused only on optimization (and High Sierra was supposed to one). This is one of the worst releases of macOS I have ever experienced (in general, not eGPU related). Sierra is significantly better in day to day use. I can go on and on about non-eGPU issues in High Sierra. And I’ve barely used it for work. Wish… Read more »

Admin

nando4

macOS 10.13.4 is eGPU dynamite – it breaks 82% of our documented macOS builds

Some interesting eGPU.io build statistics. There are:

157 macOS builds
129 of them are TB2/TB1 or NVidia eGPUs and will no longer work with the macOS 10.13.4 update (82%), of which
– 47 are TB3 NVidia eGPUs (30%) which have a macOS 10.13.4 unblocked TB3 eGPU interface but require an updated NvidiaEGPUSupport package
28 remaining TB3 AMD builds will continue to work (18%)

Forum reply »

Author

itsage

@nando4 Thank you for compiling those statistics. 4 out of 5 existing Mac eGPU setups no longer work thanks to 10.13.4.

Forum reply »

Member

Username

The future is a bit pale for many of us. At least Apple do have understood that eGPUs do have a place, which is very good.
I will probably bring my rMBP up to 10.13.4 but keep my 2012 mac mini on 13.3 for the mini egpu 1070 for as long as it lasts.

My plan for the long run is to get the 580-box and a possible TB3 mac mini if Apple don’t kill that line off.
I really hate having to buy me TB3 MBP only to slap it onto a desk for 99% of its life.

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Halbertus

I am done with Apple Desktops With Apple killing off TB2 Macs for eGPU support my annoyance with their product strategy has grown so much I just can not stand it anymore. I invested a huge amount of my hard earned money in their ecosystem (Mac Pro 6,1 2013, rMBP Mid 2015) only to find out that the system’s architecture is limited by design. Graphics performance is the biggest limitation with both of my computers. While Apple have always been slamming kind of outdated processors in their computers, I was promised expandability when they released the unconventional “thrashcan” Mac Pro… Read more »

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nombrescreeno

Posted by: Halbertus
I am done with Apple Desktops

Unfortunately, Apple does have a history of planned obsolescence so I’m not surprised by their actions with regard to this. Shame, really

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Tim Irvin

I’m holding on to my Late 2012 Mini because of the quad core CPU. If they would create a new generation quad core Mini with TB3 and SSD, I’d be handing over my money. But they won’t force me into buying a MBP that doesn’t really meet my needs (I use a computer on the desktop and an iPad for portablility). So until then I will stick with 10.13.3. And if becomes obsolete before there is a *suitable* TB3 Mac for my needs and budget, maybe someone will want to buy a Mantiz Venus and an RX 580 card. Forum… Read more »

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LongEz

ziggy, you are my hero. I love my Late 2012 Mini 2.6GHz i7-3270QM quad core with 16GB mem and 1.2TB fusion drive. It “processes” great, but it doesn’t “fly” well (X-plane flight sim). I had to work really hard to get the 10.13.4 upgrade installed for some reason and now on the 2018-0001 security patch version, but lusting over a Sonnet Breakaway with the RX580 card. I really love Mac OS X, and especially time-machine which I don’t need very often, but when I do it has always come through for me. I want more graphics now – not in… Read more »

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ikir

Posted by: nombrescreeno

Posted by: Halbertus
I am done with Apple Desktops

Unfortunately, Apple does have a history of planned obsolescence so I’m not surprised by their actions with regard to this. Shame, really

This is not true, Macs are the longer supported platform in industry.

@Halbertus
I agree with some of this issue are Apple fault, but as an owner of a MacBook Pro 13” 2017 I love touch bar and I love the new keyboard. I owned so many computers in my life and this one is the best yet.

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Dan Streaman

Longest supported platform ? What is your definition of “supported” ? My super expensive Mac Pro 2013 (I bought for video processing) was never updated and has been obsolete for several years now. I waited for 5 years for a GPU upgrade, even at Apple’s preposterous prices, to no avail. I have my Akitio node sitting under my desk because I was convinced that Apple would have repaired to their horrible lack of attention by enabling external GPU in OS X to compensate for the inexcusable lack of upgrades, and… surprise surprise… the Mac Pro 2013 is not supported !… Read more »

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nombrescreeno

Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well

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mac_editor

Posted by: nombrescreeno Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well This is true, and I was quite annoyed with my phone slowing down. But looking into the problem specifics – the battery explanation makes sense. I have experienced crashes in colder weather as such (I even reported this while on iOS 10) and their fix solved the problem at the cost of performance of course. I am satisfied with their explanation. Even old MacBooks… Read more »

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hoeveler

I think my earlier post of a NON Thunderbolt eGPU solution is getting some attention now that Apple is killing off support for TB2 eGPUs. I built this a couple years ago when my cMP was my main machine. I have since built and switched to a Windows build for my main machine and moved this eGPU setup over to the new computer, which is one of the biggest benefits – there are zero drivers needed because it’s hardware-based. Both Mac and Windows systems see this external expansion at the hardware level before POST. At any rate, here’s my original… Read more »

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Eightarmedpet

Complaining about technology moving forward is a bit ridiculous.

@halbertus have you had no use out of your Mac Pro over the half decade you’ve had it (assume you bought it in 2013?) because unless its been sitting gathering dust waiting for the magical day when you can expand its capabilities with an external GPU it hasn’t really been a waste of money has it?

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Dan Streaman

@Eightarmedpet: I also had a lot of use for many years for another system that was not upgradable: the Commodore 64.
But it was not named “Commodore Pro 64”.
A system that cannot be quickly upgraded to allow its Pro owner to compete by using the latest technology against other Pros, cannot have “Pro” in its label.
But Apple seems to think that we are willing to buy every iteration of their underwhelming hardware because it has a “Pro” in its name.
Apple is now a home-computer company. It is not enough to put a “Pro” sticker on a home computer.

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hoeveler

For me, the writing was on the wall as soon as Apple released the “trash can” MacPro. In hindsight I was 100% correct that if you need to do high-end 3D work at a professional level, Apple no longer makes the “Pro” machine they claim they do. From the beginning and throughout the 90s and into the mid-2000s, Apple was the better choice for media professionals and artists. Meanwhile mostly because of lower prices and compatibility, Microsoft Windows was the choice for most general-purpose computers. Now in 2018 I feel like it’s flipped around. Today, macOS is the better choice… Read more »

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Dan Streaman

I have been waiting 5 years for a GPU upgrade for my Mac Pro 2013, to no avail. Now Apple could have repaired this inexcusable lack of attention to Pro customers by allowing eGPU via TB2 in the latest OS X, but they decided that we do not deserve it. I kind of feel we do not deserve it because they want more money. My Mac Pro 2013 is sitting in the closet. I had “upgraded” it with a Mac Pro 2009 properly hacked to 12 cores and a modern NV GPU. So much better. Now it is time for… Read more »

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ikir

Posted by: nombrescreeno
Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well

Only if the battery is under 80% of life, this is chemistry not a scandal. Otherwise you can choose your iPhone to turn off while under heavy load… like and eGPU with insufficient PSU. off topic anyway

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Dan Streaman

Posted by: ikir Posted by: nombrescreeno Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well Only if the battery is under 80% of life, this is chemistry not a scandal. Otherwise you can choose your iPhone to turn off while under heavy load… like and eGPU with insufficient PSU. off topic anyway Chemistry, uh ? My iPad was perfectly working before that infamous iOS upgrade and I only use it for email and web. Never had… Read more »

Member

ikir

Posted by: Dan Streaman Longest supported platform ? What is your definition of “supported” ? My super expensive Mac Pro 2013 (I bought for video processing) was never updated and has been obsolete for several years now. I waited for 5 years for a GPU upgrade, even at Apple’s preposterous prices, to no avail. I have my Akitio node sitting under my desk because I was convinced that Apple would have repaired to their horrible lack of attention by enabling external GPU in OS X to compensate for the inexcusable lack of upgrades, and… surprise surprise… the Mac Pro 2013… Read more »

Member

nombrescreeno

Posted by: ikir Posted by: nombrescreeno Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well Only if the battery is under 80% of life, this is chemistry not a scandal. Otherwise you can choose your iPhone to turn off while under heavy load… like and eGPU with insufficient PSU. off topic anyway Respectfully disagree. Other phones don’t do this And between things like FireWire, 3.5mm headphones, and TB1/2 now, Apple has never cared about ending widely… Read more »

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hoeveler

Posted by: ikir Posted by: Dan Streaman Longest supported platform ? What is your definition of “supported” ? My super expensive Mac Pro 2013 (I bought for video processing) was never updated and has been obsolete for several years now. I waited for 5 years for a GPU upgrade, even at Apple’s preposterous prices, to no avail. I have my Akitio node sitting under my desk because I was convinced that Apple would have repaired to their horrible lack of attention by enabling external GPU in OS X to compensate for the inexcusable lack of upgrades, and… surprise surprise… the… Read more »

Member

Jyin

So, theoretically speaking.

For those with nMP’s, couldn’t you move the SSD to the TB2 and use m2 for the GPU?

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Member

hoeveler

Posted by: hoeveler I think my earlier post of a NON Thunderbolt eGPU solution is getting some attention now that Apple is killing off support for TB2 eGPUs. I built this a couple years ago when my cMP was my main machine. I have since built and switched to a Windows build for my main machine and moved this eGPU setup over to the new computer, which is one of the biggest benefits – there are zero drivers needed because it’s hardware-based. Both Mac and Windows systems see this external expansion at the hardware level before POST. At any rate,… Read more »

Member

ikir

Posted by: nombrescreeno Posted by: ikir Posted by: nombrescreeno Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well Only if the battery is under 80% of life, this is chemistry not a scandal. Otherwise you can choose your iPhone to turn off while under heavy load… like and eGPU with insufficient PSU. off topic anyway Respectfully disagree. Other phones don’t do this And between things like FireWire, 3.5mm headphones, and TB1/2 now, Apple has never cared… Read more »

Member

hoeveler

Posted by: Dan Streaman Posted by: ikir Posted by: nombrescreeno Maybe I should rephrase, but they certainly had no issues with gimping iPhones after a year with the whole battery scandal, and they killed FireWire without a well-supported replacement at first as well Only if the battery is under 80% of life, this is chemistry not a scandal. Otherwise you can choose your iPhone to turn off while under heavy load… like and eGPU with insufficient PSU. off topic anyway Chemistry, uh ? My iPad was perfectly working before that infamous iOS upgrade and I only use it for email… Read more »

Member

hoeveler

This isn’t too far off-topic as we are taking about Apple’s consistent pattern of doing their own thing at the expense of their users. This just came out 5 hours ago. Have fun sticking with macOS when developers have to develop for an entirely new family of processors, completely unique to Apple! https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/2/17189372/apple-intel-chip-processors-macs-date

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Technomad

Sorry, your problem with that is what, precisely? Apple makes plenty of mistakes, but this is just a company looking to securing its future: whilst the Intel architecture has the advantage of near-universality in desktop and laptop devices, it’s a triumph of development over design, with a massively complex legacy architecture that is now suffering quite badly from falling off Moore’s curve. ARM, otoh, is a largely ‘clean’ architectural model that is both highly extensible and readily integrated with other elements of a close-coupled hardware ecosystem. It is also a multi-source model where you’re not tied to a single supplier.… Read more »

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Dan Streaman

Posted by: hoeveler
Apple DOES offer battery replacement here. And if you’re not covered, it costs about $75. Now can we get back on-topic? 🙂

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-power

Only for iPhones. Will check if they have news about iPads, but I guess we need a couple more class actions 🙂

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Dan Streaman

Posted by: hoeveler This isn’t too far off-topic as we are taking about Apple’s consistent pattern of doing their own thing at the expense of their users. This just came out 5 hours ago. Have fun sticking with macOS when developers have to develop for an entirely new family of processors, completely unique to Apple! https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/2/17189372/apple-intel-chip-processors-macs-date If true, this is another dumb move into Apple inconsciously and eventually becoming a software-only company. Piss off developers and your “best” hardware and “best” OS will soon be useless. You will be soon developing your own “best” apps running only on your own “best”… Read more »

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itsage

@dan_streaman Apple is filtering out the demanding customers and keeping only the “best” ones.

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4chip4

@Technomad Note that the desktop (in terms of workloads, not form factor) is also foreign land for ARM and requires development-over-design to flourish. ARM was born with simplicity and power-friendliness in mind. This works wonderfully in mobile/portable scenarios, but *today* does not address desktop-class workloads. ARM is just starting to truly get in on multi-core (even there, things like BIG.little were more efficiency than performance-oriented). Also – there were already a couple of attempts at going after desktop/server/datacenter loads with ARM (most notably NVidia’s Denver) which failed miserably, so we know elegance in design is not enough just yet. A… Read more »